General complaints about American public education.

[Captante]

In that Jr High I mentioned...our phys ed teacher was a 350lb woman who wore spandex and carried a whistle on a lanyard. We called her the dragon because of her terrible breath and the way she'd scream at kids (aka breath weapon.)

She also had only graduated HS with no other education or training. Great example for us kids, right? lol

My Jr High gym coach was a 300 lb fat slob who couldn't do a single push-up or sit-up if his life depended on it.... AND could NEVER be replaced due to "tenure".

(to be fair he WAS a really nice guy)

 

[purbeast0]

The US public school syatem is old, antiquated, and needs MAJOR reform. The system is stuck in the past. A time when factory jobs were a guarantee when one graduated. The 21st century has been unkind to the public school system and its only going to get worse as time passes, because WE do not value education. Its not just the school system, but society as a whole. I worked in South Korea for many years, and I can confidently say that we are in trouble. There are issues in the Korean education system, and in east Asia (Korea, Japan, China) as a whole, but the main difference is their society values education.

If I had children I'd send them to a private school. No matter the cost.

My siblings and I all went to private schools from pre-k through 12th grade.

I have 2 kids now and think private school is totally not worth it. My only son who is of age for school is in a public school.

My brother and sisters also have kids and don't send their kids to private schools.

Now granted, we live in a county that has some of the best public schools in the country so there is that too.

 

[Ajay]

You would probably be wasting your money. The research I've seen indicates that private schools aren't meaningfully better at educating kids than public ones because as with almost everything else in education (and as I previously said in this thread) parental and socioeconomic factors dwarf whatever benefits private schools may provide.

https://gwern.net/doc/sociology/2018-pianta.pdf

So yeah, kids who go to private schools achieve significantly better than those who go to public schools but that's because their parents are rich and their families more stable.

As always, the only important measures are in one's locality. If the school system your child will go to is terrible, and a nearby private school is excellent - then the later will be a better choice if the parents can afford it. The reverse is true as well, without the affordability issue. My SIL and her partner moved their kids from their local system to a private school (to the tune of ~$40K per year for two children). The difference was night and day and her kids are doing so much better than before academically and socially. Thankfully, she's a marketing director for a major candy/snack food conglomerate and makes bank.

 

[Captante]

Ready for what I'm pretty sure will be an unpopular viewpoint?

95% of the ACTUALLY USEFUL education I have obtained in my life and 100% of my ability to analyze a situation and THINK effectively/independently is a direct result of my love of reading not "classroom education" of any kind.

And NO school DID NOT teach me to read that was my mom @ roughly 3 years old.... by the time I was in any organized class I was reading simple books completely on my own. (I remember being SO bored with freaking Dick & Jane dangnit!)

I clearly recall in 1st (?) grade we had a "bring in a book you like" day and I brought in this which was one of my favorites:

Every other kid brought in straight-up picture-books and the teachers aid gave me a hard time saying they didn't believe I had read it! (that made quite the impression lol!)

 

[fskimospy]

As always, the only important measures are in one's locality. If the school system your child will go to is terrible, and a nearby private school is excellent - then the later will be a better choice if the parents can afford it. The reverse is true as well, without the affordability issue. My SIL and her partner moved their kids from their local system to a private school (to the tune of ~$40K per year for two children). The difference was night and day and her kids are doing so much better than before academically and socially. Thankfully, she's a marketing director for a major candy/snack food conglomerate and makes bank.

I’m sure there are plenty of individual cases where the school makes a big difference but in the aggregate private schools don’t really matter and generally speaking people shouldn’t waste their money on them if their goal is their kid learning more. Your kid will most likely learn just as much at the local public school and that’s free. (Or at least you’re paying for it through taxes no matter where your kid goes)

That being said depending on the location private school can be a place to rub elbows with the kids of powerful people who could be helpful down the road. That’s not really related to the quality of education though and is more about it being good to be around rich and powerful people.

 

[purbeast0]

Ready for what I'm pretty sure will be an unpopular viewpoint?

95% of the ACTUALLY USEFUL education I have obtained in my life and 100% of my ability to analyze a situation and THINK effectively/independently is a direct result of my love of reading not "classroom education" of any kind.

And NO school DID NOT teach me to read that was my mom @ roughly 3 years old.... by the time I was in any organized class I was reading simple books completely on my own. (I remember being SO bored with freaking Dick & Jane dangnit!)

I clearly recall in 1st (?) grade we had a "bring in a book you like" day and I brought in this which was one of my favorites:

Every other kid brought in straight-up picture-books and the teachers aid gave me a hard time saying they didn't believe I had read it! (that made quite the impression lol!)

Did school teach you to bold, underline, and CAPLITALIZE random words like a Trump tweet?

Or did you learn that on your own?

 

[Captante]

One thing's for certain.... an arbitrary blanket-statement about nearly ANY topic is liable to turn out to be total nonsense in the end!

 

[Captante]

Or did you learn that on your own?

Courtesy of ATOT!

*(perhaps revealing THAT this BOTHERS you WAS a minor TACTICAL error ??)

 

[akugami]

The US public school syatem is old, antiquated, and needs MAJOR reform. The system is stuck in the past. A time when factory jobs were a guarantee when one graduated. The 21st century has been unkind to the public school system and its only going to get worse as time passes, because WE do not value education. Its not just the school system, but society as a whole. I worked in South Korea for many years, and I can confidently say that we are in trouble. There are issues in the Korean education system, and in east Asia (Korea, Japan, China) as a whole, but the main difference is their society values education.

If I had children I'd send them to a private school. No matter the cost.

Bolded the relevant sentence. I can confirm this to be true, due to my background. While I did not grow up, or go to school, in Asia, my significant other did. And she says she is surprised at how poor the US education system is.

Every country has issues with their education system, but one thing many Asian countries do right is they actually value education. Education can be a powerful tool for positive change. It's not just learning maths, sciences, or liberal arts, it's learning how to be a good person. People were surprised during the World Cup at the Japanese fans cleaning up. But that's called having civic pride. They're taught to not be a littering jackass in school.

In moving out of a big city, one of the things me and my partner looked at was the education system. And it's not just all about academics. I could have moved to an area with better academic ratings. It's also about extra-curricular activities that actually looks fun for kids, where they can socialize as well as learn.

 

[Greenman]

Multiple participants in the 1/6 'riot' were convicted of seditious conspiracy.

Seditious conspiracy is defined as:

18 U.S. Code § 2384 - Seditious conspiracy

www.law.cornell.edu

Insurrection is defined as:

Insurrection | Definition, Laws, Examples, & Facts | Britannica

Insurrection, an organized and usually violent act of revolt or rebellion against an established government or governing authority of a nation-state or other political entity by a group of its citizens or subjects; also, any act of engaging in such a revolt.

www.britannica.com

@Greenman, that's an insurrection.

The U.S. attorney prosecuting the case against four other keepers called the event a riot. That's on the record. Who am I to argue?

“Attacking the Capitol was a means to an end,” Assistant U.S. Attorney Louis Manzo told jurors during closing arguments Wednesday. He said the group took advantage of the riot and seized the opportunity to fulfill their goal of preventing Congress from counting the electoral votes and confirming Joe Biden as the winner of the 2020 presidential election.
So perhaps it was an insurrection within a riot?

Also of interest, the attorneys of at least two people convicted of crimes that day claim they weren't given all of the video in discovery. If that turns out to be accurate, it seems like a mistake by the prosecution. I have little knowledge of the inns and outs of discovery, but I always thought all evidence had to be disclosed. I assume we'll know about that soon enough.

 

[ch33zw1z]

The U.S. attorney prosecuting the case against four other keepers called the event a riot. That's on the record. Who am I to argue?

“Attacking the Capitol was a means to an end,” Assistant U.S. Attorney Louis Manzo told jurors during closing arguments Wednesday. He said the group took advantage of the riot and seized the opportunity to fulfill their goal of preventing Congress from counting the electoral votes and confirming Joe Biden as the winner of the 2020 presidential election.
So perhaps it was an insurrection within a riot?

Also of interest, the attorneys of at least two people convicted of crimes that day claim they weren't given all of the video in discovery. If that turns out to be accurate, it seems like a mistake by the prosecution. I have little knowledge of the inns and outs of discovery, but I always thought all evidence had to be disclosed. I assume we'll know about that soon enough.

remember those gallows? That poor craftsmanship, couldn’t have been seriously considering hanging anyone

 

[fskimospy]

The U.S. attorney prosecuting the case against four other keepers called the event a riot. That's on the record. Who am I to argue?

“Attacking the Capitol was a means to an end,” Assistant U.S. Attorney Louis Manzo told jurors during closing arguments Wednesday. He said the group took advantage of the riot and seized the opportunity to fulfill their goal of preventing Congress from counting the electoral votes and confirming Joe Biden as the winner of the 2020 presidential election.
So perhaps it was an insurrection within a riot?

Also of interest, the attorneys of at least two people convicted of crimes that day claim they weren't given all of the video in discovery. If that turns out to be accurate, it seems like a mistake by the prosecution. I have little knowledge of the inns and outs of discovery, but I always thought all evidence had to be disclosed. I assume we'll know about that soon enough.

I don’t need you to argue anything.

I showed you the definition of seditious conspiracy and the definition of insurrection. Where do you think they don’t align?

 

[hal2kilo]

In that Jr High I mentioned...the math teacher only had a HS diploma.

Our phys ed teacher was a 350lb woman who wore spandex and carried a whistle on a lanyard. We called her the dragon because of her terrible breath and the way she'd scream at kids (aka breath weapon.)

She also had only graduated HS with no other education or training. Great example for us kids, right? lol

As long as she wasn't your usual sadist (my experience), I'm OK with that.

 

[Pens1566]

I was in both private and public schools. Had a parent that was an educator in both as well. It's my feeling that, extreme cases aside, the outcome of attending a school is more tied to the attitude of the parents/child than the school itself. The kids that cared and had parents that were encouraging are the ones that were successful.

 

[Greenman]

I don’t need you to argue anything.

I showed you the definition of seditious conspiracy and the definition of insurrection. Where do you think they don’t align?

And I showed you what the U.S. prosecutor called the event. I didn't say it in court, I didn't coach the guy who did say it, and I sure as hell didn't write his closing argument. It happens that I agree with him, and the conviction of the four charged.

 

[fskimospy]

And I showed you what the U.S. prosecutor called the event. I didn't say it in court, I didn't coach the guy who did say it, and I sure as hell didn't write his closing argument. It happens that I agree with him, and the conviction of the four charged.

I don’t care what they thought. What do you think? I showed you the definition of both terms. Tell me why you think that’s not an insurrection using your ideas, nobody else.

 

[fskimospy]

dp

 

[woolfe9998]

Ready for what I'm pretty sure will be an unpopular viewpoint?

95% of the ACTUALLY USEFUL education I have obtained in my life and 100% of my ability to analyze a situation and THINK effectively/independently is a direct result of my love of reading not "classroom education" of any kind.

And NO school DID NOT teach me to read that was my mom @ roughly 3 years old.... by the time I was in any organized class I was reading simple books completely on my own. (I remember being SO bored with freaking Dick & Jane dangnit!)

I clearly recall in 1st (?) grade we had a "bring in a book you like" day and I brought in this which was one of my favorites:

Every other kid brought in straight-up picture-books and the teachers aid gave me a hard time saying they didn't believe I had read it! (that made quite the impression lol!)

While I did learn a lot more than that in both K-12 and college, including some critical thinking, if we're talking K-12 90% of everything I learned was from three teachers, and very little from anyone else.

Teacher quality makes a massive difference in education.

 

[HomerJS]

My biggest problem with education? People can no longer tell they are being lied to.

 

[Ajay]

I’m sure there are plenty of individual cases where the school makes a big difference but in the aggregate private schools don’t really matter and generally speaking people shouldn’t waste their money on them if their goal is their kid learning more. Your kid will most likely learn just as much at the local public school and that’s free. (Or at least you’re paying for it through taxes no matter where your kid goes)

That being said depending on the location private school can be a place to rub elbows with the kids of powerful people who could be helpful down the road. That’s not really related to the quality of education though and is more about it being good to be around rich and powerful people.

My specific reason for my response was this comment of Yous "You would probably be wasting your money." In which case the aggregate data, being statistically in nature, is not the measure of any specific case. Parents need to do their own research, if they are capable, and choose the best option for their children. All choices in this regard are always local and specific. Within our own school system, there better schools than others. Schools with better outcomes. Critically among the difference is the quality of the principals/ vice principals. They enforce the standards and build a culture necessary for all students, including those with deficiencies to achieve success. They hold their teachers to good principles in teaching methodologies by sitting in their classes and observing their abilities (as well as examining collected data on class and individual growth over the year). Lastly, principals do the hiring - and that is a decision that echoes through the decades as teachers tend to stay with a given school unless the spouse initiates a change for the purposes or advancemen, etc).

 

[fskimospy]

My specific reason for my response was this comment of Yous "You would probably be wasting your money." In which case the aggregate data, being statistically in nature, is not the measure of any specific case. Parents need to do their own research, if they are capable, and choose the best option for their children. All choices in this regard are always local and specific. Within our own school system, there better schools than others. Schools with better outcomes. Critically among the difference is the quality of the principals/ vice principals. They enforce the standards and build a culture necessary for all students, including those with deficiencies to achieve success. They hold their teachers to good principles in teaching methodologies by sitting in their classes and observing their abilities (as well as examining collected data on class and individual growth over the year). Lastly, principals do the hiring - and that is a decision that echoes through the decades as teachers tend to stay with a given school unless the spouse initiates a change for the purposes or advancemen, etc).

That's why I said 'probably'. For the average American they are wasting their money because private schools are essentially a scam or a way for rich people to rub elbows. For some specific people, maybe not.

 

[IronWing]

I attended public schools 2-8th grade and private, Catholic HS. The primary advantage of the private school was that the parents were a self-selecting population. That weeded out parents who aren't interested in education, a problem that public schools are stuck dealing with. For my HS, at that time, we were stronger than the best local public schools on writing (hence my post count), literature, and social studies, about even in math and computer literacy, and behind in the sciences. The school's science labs were ancient. This has since been corrected by building a shared science center with an affiliated college and improving the science curriculum (more AP classes). For diversity, the school was almost as diverse as the community, which is to say, much like counting the weinees in beanie-weenie.

 

[Pohemi]

I attended public schools 2-8th grade and private, Catholic HS.

I was made to go to the private school from 5th through 8th grade, as I mentioned. My sister who was a few years older went to public school through 8th grade and then went to a private, Catholic high school.

Her HS was considered better than any of the public high schools in the city, and likely still is. I was never offered to go to that HS. I was forced into the private grade school, and then back to the public system for high school.

It's definitely dependent on the individual schools and the faculty there. I still say budget makes a difference as well. You simply cannot learn the same content when stuck using 40 year old texts, no proper school facilities, etc.

 

[hal2kilo]

While I did learn a lot more than that in both K-12 and college, including some critical thinking, if we're talking K-12 90% of everything I learned was from three teachers, and very little from anyone else.

Teacher quality makes a massive difference in education.

Kind of like the percentage of people who work anywhere for that matter really contribute. I have always been amazed at how much dead weight companies put up with. At least the place where I used to work.

 

[sportage]

As I posted in another thread, my 14 year old niece came out gay a few months ago. Well, not came-out but rather her mother found the gay symbol etched in the child's notebook with the name of her girlfriend next to it. Being Catholic and homophobic, mom freaked. Her first reaction? Threaten therapy for her daughter, and blame the school. She blames the teachers for... I guess... suggesting gay as an alternative lifestyle and her daughter falling into the "trap". Naturally, none of that really happened in the classroom but what the hey? Blame somebody....

Add Ron DeSantis into the mix and you begin to see the problem.
And notice how Donald Trump has noticed this has benefited DeSantis thus Donald Trump jumps on the homophobe band wagon. Donald knows this is the only way to maintain his base, to steal Ron DeSantis's base, and assuring not a DeSantis win but a Trump win come 2024.