Gen5 NVMe have active cooling

[BFG10K]

Consumer PCIe Gen 5 Gaming SSDs Arrive For Sale In Japan At A Smoking 10GB/s

The first PCIe 5.0 SSD popped up in Japan with a familiar face and blistering performance.

hothardware.com

A fan on an SSD? This is really getting quite ridiculous. These things are turning into GPUs.

 

[igor_kavinski]

I wonder if that might explain my 980 PRO's temp, being near/above my R9 380X

Remove the 380X temporarily and you will have your answer

 

[mikeymikec]

Remove the 380X temporarily and you will have your answer

Sounds like effort

Samsung 980 Pro 1TB NVMe M.2 SSD Review

We update our charts with the Samsung 980 Pro 1TB NVMe M.2 SSD to align the capacity point with other drives we have tested

www.servethehome.com

They reckon the idle temp for the 980 PRO is 36C. It'll be harder to find an accurate review of the 970 Evo Plus because it's undergone at least one revision.

 

[BFG10K]

Update: with a 3mm el-cheapo heatsink it still idles pretty high, but it doesn't throttle in ATTO anymore and maintains full speed across runs.

My mobo uses an annoying plastic anchor instead of a screw so that limits my heatsink height anyway.

I think I'll just leave it for now.

This is the unspoken problem of NVME drives, a tiny surface area sandwiched between the two hottest components in the system (GPU & CPU). It's now starting to get obvious with the bricks Gen5 ship with.

 

[igor_kavinski]

PC cases really need to be redesigned. GPU on one side. CPU on the other side and the NVMe slots on the lower edge of the mobo away from the hot components.

 

[DrMrLordX]

PC cases really need to be redesigned. GPU on one side. CPU on the other side and the NVMe slots on the lower edge of the mobo away from the hot components.

Or we should switch to U.2 form factor for NVMe drives and give them proper enclosures for desktop.

 

[WilliamM2]

PC cases really need to be redesigned. GPU on one side. CPU on the other side and the NVMe slots on the lower edge of the mobo away from the hot components.

I don't know about that. My 980 Pro sits at 96F idle, and never seems to go over 105f ever. Using the stock Asrock heatsink on my B550 PG Velocita.

I think the problem with case design is that they don't have well thought out aitflow anymore. Mesh everywher. top. bottom, front, back, and sides. So the air doesn't flow THROUGH the case anymore, it just goes everywher.

Here's a pic of a couple mods I did to my case. CPU temps dropped 12f over stock, with no other changes.:

Question - two 140mm or 120mm pwm intake fans

Given that positive pressure equals less dust and only one 120mm rear exhaust fan is possible, is it better to have two 140 or two 120 pwm intake fans? 140's can run slower but would they be excessive even though they have to pull air in through side front vented Fractal Design Define 7 Compact...

forums.anandtech.com

 

[biostud]

Not all drives it seems:

TeamGroup's T-Force Cardea Z540 SSD touts epic PCIe 5.0 speeds without bulky cooling | Club386

2TB drive arrives in Q2 with blistering sequential speeds of 12,000MB/s and a mere 1mm-thick heat spreader.

www.club386.com

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Or we should switch to U.2 form factor for NVMe drives and give them proper enclosures for desktop.

Yeah, I definitely think this is an issue with industry entrenchment already so highly focused on Mobo manufacturers including M.2 and thus having to keep pushing the envelope for the standard way beyond what the original design was for. We already have the existing 2.5" form factor and the U.2 interface (and now U.3 interface in particular) that allows a ubiquitous SATA, SAS, or NVMe connection depending on the controller and target device. 2.5" drives with metal enclosures and some airflow are good for 15 to 20 watts of heat dissipation, far above and beyond what M.2 drives can handle. That's on top of the already superior heatsinking capacity for burst workloads by nature of simply using its case for thermal dissipation vs. a copper tape strip.

I'm sad that the consumer space is so tightly focused on driving M.2 past the point of sensibility when we've already got a strong standard for high performance NVMe drives to build off of.

 

[bononos]

Yeah, I definitely think this is an issue with industry entrenchment already so highly focused on Mobo manufacturers including M.2 and thus having to keep pushing the envelope for the standard way beyond what the original design was for. We already have the existing 2.5" form factor and the U.2 interface (and now U.3 interface in particular) that allows a ubiquitous SATA, SAS, or NVMe connection depending on the controller and target device. 2.5" drives with metal enclosures and some airflow are good for 15 to 20 watts of heat dissipation, far above and beyond what M.2 drives can handle. That's on top of the already superior heatsinking capacity for burst workloads by nature of simply using its case for thermal dissipation vs. a copper tape strip.

I'm sad that the consumer space is so tightly focused on driving M.2 past the point of sensibility when we've already got a strong standard for high performance NVMe drives to build off of.

I think its the industry shift towards smaller form factors which fits most non-enthusiast/hobby builds which favor the m.2 slot, oems don't have to deal with cables and screwing in sata drives.

 

[BFG10K]

Looks like we don't even need Gen6 to get CPU tower coolers:

ASRock To Bring The Chill To Toasty PCIe Gen 5 SSD Temps With A Cooler That Blows

ASRock's releasing an SSD cooler based on the heatsinks that come with some of its motherboards.

hothardware.com

That entire page is absolutely ridiculous. So much for NVMe being superior to HDDs because of a compact footprint, no cables, and no noise. These farcical monstrosities wipe out any such advantages.

And we're also going backwards with performance, where QLC has slower write speeds than HDDs, and they're trying for a laughable PLC in the future.

"Price parity with HDDs!" Sure, sure, with write speeds like a floppy drive.

Not all drives it seems:

TeamGroup's T-Force Cardea Z540 SSD touts epic PCIe 5.0 speeds without bulky cooling | Club386

2TB drive arrives in Q2 with blistering sequential speeds of 12,000MB/s and a mere 1mm-thick heat spreader.

www.club386.com

I fully expect that to throttle even with a mobo heatsink. Their own page says the graphene only improves temps by 3-5c.

 

[AdamK47]

Bought an Inland TD510. It came with an ugly heatsink and buzzy fan. Took that off. Put it in the Gen-Z.2 on my Asus X670E Crosshair Extreme. Don't have to worry about heat issues. Front case fans blow on the heatsink while the top radiator fans extract the heat.

 

[DrMrLordX]

@AdamK47

Any thoughts on performance versus your previous drive(s)?

 

[mikeymikec]

Looks like we don't even need Gen6 to get CPU tower coolers:

ASRock To Bring The Chill To Toasty PCIe Gen 5 SSD Temps With A Cooler That Blows

ASRock's releasing an SSD cooler based on the heatsinks that come with some of its motherboards.

hothardware.com

That entire page is absolutely ridiculous. So much for NVMe being superior to HDDs because of a compact footprint, no cables, and no noise. These farcical monstrosities wipe out any such advantages.

And we're also going backwards with performance, where QLC has slower write speeds than HDDs, and they're trying for a laughable PLC in the future.

"Price parity with HDDs!" Sure, sure, with write speeds like a floppy drive.


I fully expect that to throttle even with a mobo heatsink. Their own page says the graphene only improves temps by 3-5c.

I wonder if manufacturers' logic wrt possibly producing PLC drives is that SSDs have now been around for long enough that plenty of buyers only really know SSDs and/or they're so desperate for silent PCs that they'll avoid better alternatives?

I was just about to cite a direct comparison between the cost of the very cheapest 4TB SSD and HDD, but then I realised something - is a PLC SSD likely to be slower than SMR HDDs? I mean, I avoid QLC SSDs because they'll drop below a half-decent hard drive in terms of throughput, but SMR HDDs under load are diabolically slow.

It still makes sense to go for a decent non-SMR HDD over a QLC or worse SSD in a lot of cases, but it's not quite as black-and-white a situation as I thought it was at first glance.

 

[AdamK47]

@AdamK47

Any thoughts on performance versus your previous drive(s)?

I did post DirectStorage results.

Page 3 - Info - DirectStorage 1.1 benchmark

Page 3 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

forums.anandtech.com

It's the main reason these drives are shipping with such cooling.

 

[DrMrLordX]

I did post DirectStorage results.

Thanks! I haven't seen any mainstream reviews of these drives yet. Also, outside of Microcenter physical locations, I still can't find anyplace to buy a PCIe 5.0 drive.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Also, outside of Microcenter physical locations, I still can't find anyplace to buy a PCIe 5.0 drive.

Still don't understand your obsession in wanting to buy one. Earlier models will be more expensive and may not be as fast as the ones released later at a more user friendly price.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Still don't understand your obsession in wanting to buy one. Earlier models will be more expensive and may not be as fast as the ones released later at a more user friendly price.

Buying one later will be a huge pain in the arse, especially if my dGPU blocks the NVMe slot 1 like it does on my current system.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Buying one later will be a huge pain in the arse, especially if my dGPU blocks the NVMe slot 1 like it does on my current system.

Ah ok. I guess with watercooling it becomes a real chore to disassemble everything.

 

[BFG10K]

Corsair MP700 shuts down within 2 minutes reading or writing, needing a power cycle to restart it:

Corsair MP700 2 TB Review - 10 GB/s Gen 5 SSD Tested

The Corsair MP700 is the first PCI-Express 5.0 SSD that we're reviewing. With transfer rates of up to 10 GB/s this drive is crazy fast. Our review confirms, this is the fastest SSD we've ever tested. With up to 10 W, the MP700 is also the most power-hungry SSD, and it puts out a lot of heat, too.

www.techpowerup.com

Crucial T700 throttles slower than an HDD:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1656552318827913216

These things are fraud perpetuated on customers. They must've known for years this is the direction things were going, but they continued anyway.

I mean what's the end-game here? Gen 7.0 requires liquid nitrogen?

 

[mikeymikec]

@BFG10K

Is that really a valid basis for crying fraud? I doubt you'd be accusing AMD and Intel of fraud based on the benchmarks of their CPUs with the cooling system removed.

Don't get me wrong, I see that titchy little fan and think two things: 1) annoying whine and 2) dead far sooner than a larger fan.

I just think you're getting a bit carried away with your criticism.

Having said that, my main concern/belief is I'd bet that a significant percentage of the fans won't make it much past the 5-year warranty, probably zero will live ten years. I'd also bet that Corsair won't be stocking spare fans say ten years past the release date.

 

[AdamK47]

Corsair MP700 shuts down within 2 minutes reading or writing, needing a power cycle to restart it:

Corsair MP700 2 TB Review - 10 GB/s Gen 5 SSD Tested

The Corsair MP700 is the first PCI-Express 5.0 SSD that we're reviewing. With transfer rates of up to 10 GB/s this drive is crazy fast. Our review confirms, this is the fastest SSD we've ever tested. With up to 10 W, the MP700 is also the most power-hungry SSD, and it puts out a lot of heat, too.

www.techpowerup.com

Crucial T700 throttles slower than an HDD:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1656552318827913216

These things are fraud perpetuated on customers. They must've known for years this is the direction things were going, but they continued anyway.

I mean what's the end-game here? Gen 7.0 requires liquid nitrogen?

Fraud is a stretch.

People are treating these as if they were PCI-E Gen 3/4 drives.

Gen 5 needs proper cooling. Especially critical when more games make use of DirectStorage.

 

[AdamK47]

I also wonder if these so called professional reviewers are properly applying thermal pads if using motherboard supplied cooling.

Thermal shutdown should not occur when installing software with even the chintziest of motherboard supplied heat spreaders.

 

[BFG10K]

I doubt you'd be accusing AMD and Intel of fraud based on the benchmarks of their CPUs with the cooling system removed.

I've called out Intel multiple times over their constant redefinition of TDP, and AMD trying to tell us 95C CPU temperature is somehow normal.

But at least CPU sockets and PCIe slots have room for cooling with big slow fans, and you can tame the parts with power caps and in many cases lose little performance.

OTOH NVMe is in the worst possible place for cooling. And they also do nothing but jack up sequential performance each gen which does nothing for the vast majority of users except create gum-stick furnaces.

Also the throttling is getting worse and worse. Gen 3.0 drives can still get 1GB/sec, but these new pieces of trash drop to 100 MB/sec. That's slower than my 2012 VelociRaptor.

 

[WelshBloke]

Having said that, my main concern/belief is I'd bet that a significant percentage of the fans won't make it much past the 5-year warranty, probably zero will live ten years. I'd also bet that Corsair won't be stocking spare fans say ten years past the release date.

For late warranty replacement a comparable part (given 4.5 years of improvement) should be pretty cheap and at ten years whose going to replace the fan on obsolete, worn out storage?

 

[mikeymikec]

at ten years whose going to replace the fan on obsolete, worn out storage?

"Worn-out storage"? On what basis? I'm still running my first SSD, last I checked it was still at 93% life left and is ~9 years old. When I do my next platform upgrade I wonder whether I'll replace it then, as it works perfectly well for my Linux install. Those gen5 benchmarks show a negligible difference for OS boot speeds between gen5 and SATA. Thunderbird starts one second faster on gen5 over SATA? Not exactly a compelling argument for an upgrade.