GELID Extreme Thermal Compound or Liquid Ultra on the CPU?

[Berryracer]

So I ordered an Alienware Area 51 desktop from HIDevolution and before they start the build, I have a choice to put Liquid Ultra or GELID Extreme Thermal Compound on the CPU.

I know Liquid Ultra is a bit better but I have one major concern. This system is supposedt to last me for 3 years and correct my if I'm wrong but I heard that Liquid Ultra needs to be repasted every few months?

Since this is liquid cooled I am not sure how easy or difficult that would be as I haven't touched a desktop computer in more than 10 years been dealing with laptops since ages.

With that extra step needed to repasting every once in a while, what would be a wiser choice? Does the GELID Extreme Thermal Compound last longer and doesn't need be reapplied every now and then?

 

[JM Popaleetus]

Why wouldn't you order an Alienware...from Alienware?

Hell, why are you ordering an Alienware at all?

 

[Berryracer]

Why wouldn't you order an Alienware...from Alienware?

Hell, why are you ordering an Alienware at all?

Because the configurations available at Alienware are limited for what I wanted.

Secondly they don't do international shipping to Dubai. I wanted the extra add-ons from HIDevolution

I ordered 2666MHz RAM instead of 2100 MHZ RAM that DELL offers, I ordered 3 Titan X GPUs in SLI Dell only offers 3 980GTX GPUs no Titans

Why Alienware? Bause I'm a DELL fan, their warranty is superb, they changed my Alienware 18 laptop 3 times and gave me a brand new one not because it had any real issues, just because I OCD and a few things weren't perfect.

Heck last week I called them and told them my screen had scratches all over it even though I take good care of it and always put a foam layer between it and the keyboard before closing it so they asked me to send a pic of the screen to make sure it wasn't physical damage and next day they send me a brand new screen! no other company even comes close to the kind of superb warranty they offer.

I ordered this new system with 4 years warranty

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Because the configurations available at Alienware are limited for what I wanted.

Secondly they don't do international shipping to Dubai. I wanted the extra add-ons from HIDevolution

I ordered 2666MHz RAM instead of 2100 MHZ RAM that DELL offers, I ordered 3 Titan X GPUs in SLI Dell only offers 3 980GTX GPUs no Titans

Why Alienware? Bause I'm a DELL fan, their warranty is superb, they changed my Alienware 18 laptop 3 times and gave me a brand new one not because it had any real issues, just because I OCD and a few things weren't perfect.

Heck last week I called them and told them my screen had scratches all over it even though I take good care of it and always put a foam layer between it and the keyboard before closing it so they asked me to send a pic of the screen to make sure it wasn't physical damage and next day they send me a brand new screen! no other company even comes close to the kind of superb warranty they offer.

I ordered this new system with 4 years warranty

I don't think there's supposed to be much of a pumping-out problem with Liquid Ultra. And since this is for the mating of a water-block and IHS/processor-cap, the Liquid Ultra would be ideal. So would Indigo Xtreme, which might present more of a difficulty when you remove the water-block.

But the trouble removing a water-block under those circumstances is a lot less than the problem of removing a larger heatsink or heatpipe cooler.

And any of those indications about removal should demolish any myth about "periodic re-application."

Somebody tell me I'm wrong. There should be plenty of CLU users here. Y'all know that I mostly use IC Diamond.

But if Indigo Xtreme makes an amalgam with the copper or nickel-plate, I would think something similar would happen with the Liquid Ultra.

And thanks for an inadvertent reminder. I had decided to give either CLU or IX a try before I build my new system. So excuse me while I go to the right reseller and order some. Probably -- the IX. We'll see . . . .

Now that I think of it, metal-pads and liquid metal aren't for everyone. Even ICD will degrade the printing on the processor-IHS nickel-plate. I generally lap off the nickel for every processor I buy, except for a 3570K recently. But if you were counting on a resale-cycle to your computer-building, you'd have to do it every couple years just to make the advertising effort and trouble for shipping. If someone buys my processor, they'll have to be satisfied with a blank copper mirror.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

[My irritating sequential post . . . ]

I did enough research on thermal interfaces back in '07. I bought micronized diamond powder to mix with bundled thermal compound before IC Diamond was released for sale.

Other than electrical conductivity, pumping out, abrasive particles, amalgamation with HSF and IHS surfaces, the primary factor that makes one compound better than another is -- and always has been -- thermal conductivity and its inverse, thermal resistance. If you find a comprehensive comparison review of thermal compounds, and there isn't any comparable measure of either, put that review on a "take with a grain of salt" list while looking at other reviews.

In this case, I decided to see if there were thermal conductivity specs for Gelid and Indigo Xtreme, and it appears to compare this way according to thermal conductivity [larger is better]:

Gelid ~= 8.5 W/mK
Indigo Xtreme ~>= 20 W/mK

With thermal resistance, the smaller the number, the better the compound.

I have been an advocate for micronized diamond since 2007, and I still think it's a great choice, since its performance is close behind that of either metal pads or liquid metal.

I'm often puzzled as to why folks favor less effective formulations. I know people want something that spreads easily; they want something that doesn't erase the stamp on the IHS; they want something electrically non-conductive; and they want something that doesn't make any molecular bond with the metal surfaces.

Cooling solutions range from the lower expense of second-rate heatpipe coolers to custom-water parts -- a major outlay. Choosing a TIM, along with several other tedious measures, can add up in cumulative C-degrees for cooler results. It would just seem to me that Liquid Ultra or IC Diamond are among the most effective TIMs with acceptable compromises or advantages in the other aspects.

Anyone know the basic "active" ingredients of GELID that make it a viable thermal paste? I'm wondering if I couldn't mix micronized diamond powder with it . . . .

 

[YBS1]

You can't get better than CLU, having said that I will say GELID Extreme is the first time I've ever truly been impressed with a thermal compound other than the metals. It's also the first time I've found the blob method to work better for me than the spread. I would like to try one of those graphene based compounds sometime though. IMO the Gelid may be the way to go unless you are trying to squeeze every last degree/megahertz out of a chip. CLU is fantastic but does have it's downsides (The main one being why I'm using Gelid on the 5960X, Intel Performance Tuning plan requires the print on the IHS to be legible and CLU pretty much ruins it. This may be important to those interested in resale as well).

 

[YBS1]

I know Liquid Ultra is a bit better but I have one major concern. This system is supposedt to last me for 3 years and correct my if I'm wrong but I heard that Liquid Ultra needs to be repasted every few months?

I can't give you a definite answer to this as I have seen differing results based upon what I put it on and can't theorize as to why. On my 3930K, one application did it, it was on there and after multiple times removing and inspecting, I feel pretty confident it was "permanent" had I not removed the block. On my X5670 it did need to be reapplied every few months, I would notice temperatures suddenly were many degrees above normal and a simple remove and reapply would fix it. Now, the difference here is the 3930K has it's normal as from Intel IHS. The X5670 is lapped. I don't know if this is as a result of the nickel(3930K) vs. copper (X5670) mating surface, or if it's the result of the lapped very smooth vs. comparatively rougher finish of the standard IHS. *shrug*

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I can't give you a definite answer to this as I have seen differing results based upon what I put it on and can't theorize as to why. On my 3930K, one application did it, it was on there and after multiple times removing and inspecting, I feel pretty confident it was "permanent" had I not removed the block. On my X5670 it did need to be reapplied every few months, I would notice temperatures suddenly were many degrees above normal and a simple remove and reapply would fix it. Now, the difference here is the 3930K has it's normal as from Intel IHS. The X5670 is lapped. I don't know if this is as a result of the nickel(3930K) vs. copper (X5670) mating surface, or if it's the result of the lapped very smooth vs. comparatively rougher finish of the standard IHS. *shrug*

Is there any other forum member with firsthand confirmation that Liquid Ultra pumps out? It might pump out for a de-lidding TIM replacement. I just can't believe such would occur with two metal surfaces.

The Indigo Xtreme requires heating the processor to 80C (by powering it or using a hair-dryer). There are rumors abounding about the amalgamation problem when removing the HSF for maintenance.

If you're just "building a solid PC" with no over-clocking ambitions, I'd pick the GELID or something similar. For myself -- I'm always looking to find that "last grain of rice" in cooling improvement. If I sell used processors, the buyer will be accurately informed -- and should have no hesitation buying a "copper processor."

 

[YBS1]

Let me be clear, I'm not saying this was pump out to any degree. It seemed more like from the looks of it during inspections, that some of the compound "evaporated" or maybe migrated/congregated to certain areas of the spreader and not others. It was not bare anywhere but seemed thinner/thicker in some areas. To give you a better mental image if you've not had experience with CLU, after it's been in use it's no longer "liquid", it kind of dries and bonds/hardens into a kind of dry powder-ish looking metal layer between and clinging to both surfaces.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Let me be clear, I'm not saying this was pump out to any degree. It seemed more like from the looks of it during inspections, that some of the compound "evaporated" or maybe migrated/congregated to certain areas of the spreader and not others. It was not bare anywhere but seemed thinner/thicker in some areas. To give you a better mental image if you've not had experience with CLU, after it's been in use it's no longer "liquid", it kind of dries and bonds/hardens into a kind of dry powder-ish looking metal layer between and clinging to both surfaces.

That's the amalgamation. Somehow, somebody in the forums insinuated that it was "re-useable" after you'd removed the HSF for maintenance, as though you could just re-apply the HSF without further application of the CLU. SUCH IS ACTUALLY THE CASE with nano-diamond pastes. You could put a drop of any silicon-grease or oil-based TIM on it, give it a few swipes with a razor-blade, and you're back in bidnis.

I have seen the photos of CLU after removing the IHS from a delidded CLU-treated processor die. It does leave a peculiar pattern of material, but in that case, it is not a metal to metal interface.

 

[Berryracer]

Interesting reply from Mr. Fox from NBR forums who is a big time overclocker:

Nope, Gelid is about the same as IC Diamond in terms of longevity. Both are really good products, but not as good as Liquid Ultra. That is false information about Liquid Ultra, too. All other thermal pastes I have used need to be reapplied frequently due to pump-out or degradation, but not Liquid Ultra. Whoever said that either did not apply it correctly, or their heat sink is not fitting the CPU correctly. @Papusan has had his go over a year with no decrease in effectiveness. I have had mine go almost a year and had to be re-applied only because of disassemble for something totally unrelated. Nothing can touch Liquid Ultra in my opinion.


If the heat sink does not fit nicely with the CPU, then it is not effective. It requires a good fit to work right, which is not a problem with Alienware laptops. Sadly, I cannot use Liquid Ultra with my Clevo P570WM because my CPU heat sink fits very sloppy against the IHS and I need to use a thick paste like IC Diamond to fill up the gaps.


I also have an M18xR2 that belongs to someone else. His motherboard died and he sent it back to me. I am working on it now. I had applied Liquid Ultra for him back in November of last year. In late May I disassembled it. The Liquid Ultra was still totally intact and fluid. I used the brush to smooth it out again and put it back together without new paste and the temps are magnificent without any need for new paste.

 

[superstition]

Liquid Pro has the best conductivity but there are reports on overclock.net that it can cause a strong bond between a copper parts and is only truly safe with nickle. I have heard the exact opposite from posts in other forums so I'm not sure what to believe.

I have also heard that it dries up from some posts and that it remains wet indefinitely (for years) from other posts. Again, I'm not sure what to believe. I have heard that regular pastes can also dry out and my impression is that they are more prone to that than a liquid metal product is.

Liquid Ultra has slightly less conductivity but the difference is minor and it's supposed to be easier to clean up. I also am not sure but I think it's a bit thicker which may be a better match for a rougher surface. Liquid Pro appears to be the material of choice for extremely smooth surfaces, like bare dies from delidded chips.

The metal pad has the best results (by a large margin) with GPUs from the roundups I've seen but I wouldn't use it on a CPU due to the high temperatures it requires to set and I'm even leery with GPUs, especially as process nodes get smaller. I would make sure the GPU die is verified to be able to support the required melting temp.

Liquid Pro has gone down dramatically in price, from like $27 to just $10, so I bought some to use. I also lapped my chip and cooler. It was not particularly difficult to apply.

 

[YBS1]

Interesting reply from Mr. Fox from NBR forums who is a big time overclocker:

Makes me wonder if how much total heat is pushed through it matters with regards to if it remains liquid or not. Because I can say with certainty it's never remained "reusable" for me after disassembly like he alludes to in that post. That being a notebook forum I can't imagine anything on that side of the hardware pond bringing the kind of thermal load ~5GHz six core cpus would have. That's not to say he doesn't have experience with such hardware though, I'm not familiar with that forum or user.

Still, whether it remains liquid or "cures" doesn't seem to have effect on its ability to do it's job though as the 3930k never displayed any reduction in cooling performance due to this.

 

[aigomorla]

Because the configurations available at Alienware are limited for what I wanted.

Secondly they don't do international shipping to Dubai. I wanted the extra add-ons from HIDevolution

I ordered 2666MHz RAM instead of 2100 MHZ RAM that DELL offers, I ordered 3 Titan X GPUs in SLI Dell only offers 3 980GTX GPUs no Titans

Why Alienware? Bause I'm a DELL fan, their warranty is superb, they changed my Alienware 18 laptop 3 times and gave me a brand new one not because it had any real issues, just because I OCD and a few things weren't perfect.

Heck last week I called them and told them my screen had scratches all over it even though I take good care of it and always put a foam layer between it and the keyboard before closing it so they asked me to send a pic of the screen to make sure it wasn't physical damage and next day they send me a brand new screen! no other company even comes close to the kind of superb warranty they offer.

I ordered this new system with 4 years warranty

You will VOID warranty by replacing the TIM especially using liquid pro.
You will VOID warranty by changing / Upgrading RAM because DELL does not want to you touch the box in any way.
You will VOID warranty by replacing the GPU unless it is done by DELL directly.

Also to note, you would require a PSU upgrade, which again will VOID your warranty from dell, due to it not being a stock PSU.

Infact the moment u open the box up and change ANYTHING it will VOID dell's warranty.

The only way your going to keep your 4 yr warranty is if HIDevolution is offering you their direct warranty.

 

[Idontcare]

Interesting reply from Mr. Fox from NBR forums who is a big time overclocker:

FWIW I agree with Mr. Fox's statements in that quoted post.

 

[guskline]

Gelid Extreme is supplied with the EK Supremacy EVO cpu waterblock I use in my rig below. Seems to work well.

 

[Berryracer]

You will VOID warranty by replacing the TIM especially using liquid pro.
You will VOID warranty by changing / Upgrading RAM because DELL does not want to you touch the box in any way.
You will VOID warranty by replacing the GPU unless it is done by DELL directly.

Also to note, you would require a PSU upgrade, which again will VOID your warranty from dell, due to it not being a stock PSU.

Infact the moment u open the box up and change ANYTHING it will VOID dell's warranty.

The only way your going to keep your 4 yr warranty is if HIDevolution is offering you their direct warranty.

Wrong
Wrong
Wrong

and Wrong

I have an email from the regional manager of DELL Europe confirming that al DELL machines can be upgraded as I wish but the warranty will not cover the changed components. so if I have HIDevolution upgrade the GPUs to 3 Titan Xs, Then Dell will not cover them under the warranty they will cover only what came in the system from them.

That is for both Desktops and Laptops.

I canceled my order though because HIDevolution gave me the option to choose 3 Titan X GPUs in SLI mode but while browsing the Dell forums, a moderator confirmed that they will NOT work due to a BIOS limitation and DELL hasn't released any BIOS update since the initial release of this model so I canceled my order.

Proof: http://en.community.dell.com/owners-club/alienware/f/3746/t/19626565

 

[aigomorla]

Wrong
Wrong
Wrong

and Wrong

I have an email from the regional manager of DELL Europe confirming that al DELL machines can be upgraded as I wish but the warranty will not cover the changed components. so if I have HIDevolution upgrade the GPUs to 3 Titan Xs, Then Dell will not cover them under the warranty they will cover only what came in the system from them.

That is for both Desktops and Laptops.

I canceled my order though because HIDevolution gave me the option to choose 3 Titan X GPUs in SLI mode but while browsing the Dell forums, a moderator confirmed that they will NOT work due to a BIOS limitation and DELL hasn't released any BIOS update since the initial release of this model so I canceled my order.

Proof: http://en.community.dell.com/owners-club/alienware/f/3746/t/19626565

nope liquid pro is not a typical TIM.
when they pull the heat sink off and see its liquid metal, they will void the warranty.

When you return the machine with ram which is not OEM, they will also void the warranty saying you got uncompilable ram.

I have seen them do this on my friends alienware laptop.

And as i said, you also require a different PSU to handle 6 PCI-E cables.
Well, and that again will void the warranty.

Whomever you spoke you, make sure u get proof if he says otherwise.
Make sure it says he is a direct affiliate from Dell Customer Service with his Employee ID number and make sure its an official email.

(edit.. make sure you keep that email from the regional, because i have seen and heard of people get screwed from dell by changing something or adding a video card to an existing system.)

 

[DrMrLordX]

I have used CLU on various CPUs since . . . 2009? It has never once failed me due to pump-out, drying, or any other reason. The only time I ever had trouble with it was when I did a delid/relid and I tried using too little on the die. Once I had applied an abnormally-large amount, it worked fine. That particular setup has been working for me for ~6 months without fail.

 

[Berryracer]

nope liquid pro is not a typical TIM.
when they pull the heat sink off and see its liquid metal, they will void the warranty.

When you return the machine with ram which is not OEM, they will also void the warranty saying you got uncompilable ram.

I have seen them do this on my friends alienware laptop.

And as i said, you also require a different PSU to handle 6 PCI-E cables.
Well, and that again will void the warranty.

Whomever you spoke you, make sure u get proof if he says otherwise.
Make sure it says he is a direct affiliate from Dell Customer Service with his Employee ID number and make sure its an official email.

(edit.. make sure you keep that email from the regional, because i have seen and heard of people get screwed from dell by changing something or adding a video card to an existing system.)

Well, he is the Regional Operations Manager for DELL Europe region.

I upgraded my CPU on my Alienware 18 from 4900MQ to 4940MX and upgraded the RAM from 32GB Micron 1600 MHz. to 32 GB Kingston 1866 MHz. RAM and added GELID Extreme Thermal Compound on both the GPUs and Liquid Ultra on the CPU and changed the WLAN Card fromthe crappy Broadcome to an Intel AC7260 (revised edition) and removed all the HDDs / mSATA they gave me and put my own and tomorrow I am having a technician come and replace my motherboard and 2 780M GTX GPUs because I don't know what I did wrong the other day I changed some BIOS overclocking settings to an extreme overclock and now the system won't start at all so they are replacing the motherboard and both GPUs......

From what I read on the NBR forums, the DELL warranty in the USA seems very bad compared to the one we get here in the Middle East. Over here it is the best warranty and customer service I have ever seen. Other brands like ASUS though will void your warranty if you change anything just like you mentioned.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I have used CLU on various CPUs since . . . 2009? It has never once failed me due to pump-out, drying, or any other reason. The only time I ever had trouble with it was when I did a delid/relid and I tried using too little on the die. Once I had applied an abnormally-large amount, it worked fine. That particular setup has been working for me for ~6 months without fail.

I"ll say candidly that I never performed a de-lidding myself, although I followed the marathon threads of IDontCare and studied the variations in methods.

When I was thinking about the conductivity or "run-off" from CLU on the die and on its PCB, It occurred to me that you could build a "dam" around the processor with ICD. There shouldn't need to be any nano-diamond between the IHS and die, but you'd shape it according to the impression you'd likely have with the original putty, if it left a shape impression of the die. Or you could simply put a bead of ICD around the die.

But it would cost you a whole tube, probably. Frankly, I don't think there's so much of any electrical risk with the CLU, though. There's not that much else sticking up on that green PCB around the die. Even so -- you could probably shape the polymer TIM remnants around the edge of the die before applying any CLU. I don't know how malleable that stuff would be when you remove the IHS. Is it like putty? Is it like plastic? or does it tend to crumble? Is there any way to "rejuvenate" it?

I think someone complained that CLU left an "irregular pattern" at the time of a maintenance-removal, which would likely be the case since there's no easy way to lap the underside of an IHS flat, and you're certainly not going to apply any abrasive to that die toward such an end -- You'd have to just live with it as it is.

So that might suggest to me (however wrong I am) that more CLU is better than less -- to a point, anyway.