GeForce Titan coming end of February

[Black Octagon]

It its pointless to piss and moan about the price of cards that are not even on the market.

 

[3DVagabond]

It its pointless to piss and moan about the price of cards that are not even on the market.

Depends on why this price was leaked. If it was to see if people would swallow the pill, then complaining could make a difference.

 

[SirPauly]

You might be right, but I could have sworn I paid 299 for my 9800, ill have to see if I can find my invoice for that purchase.

As far as complaining about price, nothing wrong with complaining. A closed mouth doesn't get fed. And while complaining may not accomplish anything, not saying a word certainly wouldn't.

When buying a new car, if the sticker is a bit more than you want to pay but you want the car, so you just walk out or do you complain and see if it gets lowered any?

IF someone desires to complain is fine by me and if someone desires to strongly defend is fine by me.

My view has been, 28nm, even though the node and arches are substantial and significant, the price/performance has been more-so evolutionary and incremental at times.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

Did someone already post this?
http://wccftech.com/nvidia-geforce-titan-features-6-gb-memory-review-samples-shipped/

Says 235watt draw, I'm guessing I'd be OK with that with a 620 watt/48 amp PSU?

Wonder how long it is though? Not sure my case will be happy with more than 11".

 

[SolMiester]

Ya, I agree with your entire post. Even though people bring comparison of high-end headphones, and other hobbies, etc. GPUs are totally different because they have a limited shelf-life. If you drop $1-2K on high-end headphones or an amp, they don't go "obsolete" in 3 years. They will still sound stellar every single day for 10 years. You can now get an HD7850 for $150-160 that with a 10 min overclock will get you GTX580 level of performance. GTX580 was $500 just 2 years ago. Comparing the Titan to GTX690 misses the point because GTX690's level of performance should be more affordable now. Using this logic, GTX680 could have cost 35% more than GTX580 because it offered 35% more performance. If NV keeps doing this, soon they'll condition PC enthusiasts to believe that a high-end GPU's normal price is $900-1000. Even cards like GTX590/HD6990 were $700-750.

If we expect HD8970 to be 15-20% faster than HD7970GE, GK114 (GTX780) shouldn't be far behind. I think NV locked voltage control on GK104 so that GTX780's 20% increase looks good. Also, I expect GTX780's voltage control to be locked because then NV could charge a large premium for the Titan and 780 won't be able to touch it. Delaying GTX780 to June or later would allow NV to sell Titan at the highest prices to excited PC enthusiasts who are ready to spend $900-$1,000 on flagship GPUs after NV conditioned them with $1,000 GTX690 in 2012. I must say I am very impressed with NV's marketing. Rumors of GTX700 being postponed but Titan still on track would allow the Titan to look much faster than it is since it'll be compared to the 680 not 780. Interesting marketing game NV is playing. It's like a copy of Apple's handbook 101. The best part is NV managed to disguise it all by somehow making us gamers think it was AMD that raised prices. All AMD did is bring HD7970 back to ATI's historical levels. That was a steep price increase from HD4870/4890/5870/6970 days but not unexpected given AMD's dire financial situation, struggling to maintain 15% gross margins. What NV is doing is shifting price levels entirely into stratosphere, rumoured to be selling a 550mm2 die for $900, while reporting > 50% gross margin on its earnings calls. Essentially they are asking us to absorb higher 28nm wafer costs. No thanks. GPU tech is also supposed to get cheaper for a given level of performance or faster at a similar price level. Titan at $900 does not deliver on either, which sounds like it's overpriced on the general price/performance tech curve. I guess I am sitting still until 20nm Maxwell / HD9000 series gives Titan's performance for $499. :biggrin:

I like how you use guess work and rumour to establish a strategy then use that to reinforce your opinion...LMAO...Niiiice!

 

[MrK6]

I like how you use guess work and rumour to establish a strategy then use that to reinforce your opinion...LMAO...Niiiice!

I think if you stamp your feet or pout it'll make your position clearer. Try that next time.

 

[tviceman]

Rivatuner's creator (aka afterburner) is saying next gen nvidia hardware will have more freedom on voltage control. Not sure if "next gen" is GK110 and Kepler refreshes or maxwell. I'm guessing he is referring to GK110 and Kepler refreshes since info on voltage regarding maxwell is probably unknown, even to nvidia.

http://www.hwupgrade.it/forum/showpost.php?p=38966782&postcount=4095

 

[tviceman]

Did someone already post this?
http://wccftech.com/nvidia-geforce-titan-features-6-gb-memory-review-samples-shipped/

Says 235watt draw, I'm guessing I'd be OK with that with a 620 watt/48 amp PSU?

Wonder how long it is though? Not sure my case will be happy with more than 11".

I think it's just a guess. The original rumor took the K20X specs, down to the mhz, and ran with it, although it's probably not far off from what the TDP actually will be rated at.

 

[SirPauly]

Rivatuner's creator (aka afterburner) is saying next gen nvidia hardware will have more freedom on voltage control. Not sure if "next gen" is GK110 and Kepler refreshes or maxwell. I'm guessing he is referring to GK110 and Kepler refreshes since info on voltage regarding maxwell is probably unknown, even to nvidia.

http://www.hwupgrade.it/forum/showpost.php?p=38966782&postcount=4095

Thanks!

 

[tviceman]

Thanks!

I am trying really hard to keep out of all the crap that 3/4 of every thread turns into and stick with intelligent discussion.

 

[blackened23]

Rivatuner's creator (aka afterburner) is saying next gen nvidia hardware will have more freedom on voltage control. Not sure if "next gen" is GK110 and Kepler refreshes or maxwell. I'm guessing he is referring to GK110 and Kepler refreshes since info on voltage regarding maxwell is probably unknown, even to nvidia.

http://www.hwupgrade.it/forum/showpost.php?p=38966782&postcount=4095

Excellent news, thanks for posting this.

I'm inclined to agree that he's likely referring to GK110. Crossing my fingers.

 

[SolMiester]

I think if you stamp your feet or pout it'll make your position clearer. Try that next time.

I must have written 4 different responses already, but your just not worth it....run along!

 

[Firestorm007]

I like how you use guess work and rumour to establish a strategy then use that to reinforce your opinion...LMAO...Niiiice!

Great comeback..and what was your opinion again? Oh, you don't have one. Try giving a little respect to someone who posts with clear and concise opinions. Grow up.

 

[MrK6]

I must have written 4 different responses already, but your just not worth it....run along!

Of course, that would require a brain and having an opinion of something other than "you said something against nvidia so I'm going to cry about it."

Great comeback..and what was your opinion again? Oh, you don't have one. Try giving a little respect to someone who posts with clear and concise opinions. Grow up.

Amen. It's amazing some quality posters still stick around this wasteland.

Rivatuner's creator (aka afterburner) is saying next gen nvidia hardware will have more freedom on voltage control. Not sure if "next gen" is GK110 and Kepler refreshes or maxwell. I'm guessing he is referring to GK110 and Kepler refreshes since info on voltage regarding maxwell is probably unknown, even to nvidia.

http://www.hwupgrade.it/forum/showpost.php?p=38966782&postcount=4095

That would be nice. It all comes down to what the price of the GK110 is going to be. If they offer voltage control with a decent price (<$600) it will be an appealing part. I would never pay that much for a part without it, that's for sure.

 

[OCGuy]

Oh, happy days are back! People are arguing over rumours and innuendo, and then being forced to take positions on things like power-draw, price, etc. I bet you can even find them making contradictory statements when the subjects were about "their side."

This can only mean one thing: New hardware approaches! Ok, two things, infractions for many, bans for some!

 

[RussianSensation]

Rivatuner's creator (aka afterburner) is saying next gen nvidia hardware will have more freedom on voltage control. Not sure if "next gen" is GK110 and Kepler refreshes or maxwell. I'm guessing he is referring to GK110 and Kepler refreshes since info on voltage regarding maxwell is probably unknown, even to nvidia.

http://www.hwupgrade.it/forum/showpost.php?p=38966782&postcount=4095

Good stuff if true. Apparently PCPer and TechReport already have the Titan in hand and are testing it. The launch should be very close.

 

[OCGuy]

Of course, that would require a brain and having an opinion of something other than "you said something against nvidia so I'm going to cry about it."

Amen. It's amazing some quality posters still stick around this wasteland.

That would be nice. It all comes down to what the price of the GK110 is going to be. If they offer voltage control with a decent price (<$600) it will be an appealing part. I would never pay that much for a part without it, that's for sure.

Pricing is based on many factors, and none of them have to do with what you personally will or won't buy. And of all people I know you know all of this Mrk6, so it isnt aimed at you:

Besides pure costs (bad yields, recouping development, etc) they also want to charge what the market tells it that it can.

If they come in too high, they will know due to the product not selling. If competition comes in, they will drop immediately. AMD allowed my 2nd GTX280 to be 2/3rds the price of the 1st one. That is just plain awesome.

If there are not a lot of them, then they can sit back and wait for the bleeding edgers to slowly pick them off of the shelves.

If I was nvidia or an AIB, it would be hard to convince me to give warranties to people who want to go beyond overclocking. I certainly think you should have the option, because you paid for the part: Over-volt manually, no warranty. Overclock, keep warranty.

I don't know when this entitlement to running electronic components so far out of spec came up. I had never heard of it. EVGA was one of the only AIBs allowing OC warranties.

I'm pretty sure it was when the nV dual-cards were burning up when over-volted a couple years back, then all of the sudden everyone came out of the woods and said over-volting with a warranty is a right.

Tell that to Intel or AMD's CPU divisions....

 

[Grooveriding]

Pricing is based on many factors, and none of them have to do with what you personally will or won't buy. And of all people I know you know all of this Mrk6, so it isnt aimed at you:

Besides pure costs (bad yields, recouping development, etc) they also want to charge what the market tells it that it can.

If they come in too high, they will know due to the product not selling. If competition comes in, they will drop immediately. AMD allowed my 2nd GTX280 to be 2/3rds the price of the 1st one. That is just plain awesome.

If there are not a lot of them, then they can sit back and wait for the bleeding edgers to slowly pick them off of the shelves.

If I was nvidia or an AIB, it would be hard to convince me to give warranties to people who want to go beyond overclocking. I certainly think you should have the option, because you paid for the part: Over-volt manually, no warranty. Overclock, keep warranty.

I don't know when this entitlement to running electronic components so far out of spec came up. I had never heard of it. EVGA was one of the only AIBs allowing OC warranties.

I'm pretty sure it was when the nV dual-cards were burning up when over-volted a couple years back, then all of the sudden everyone came out of the woods and said over-volting with a warranty is a right.

Tell that to Intel or AMD's CPU divisions....

EVGA, MSI, Galaxy off the top of my head all warrant overclocking & volting within what you can do at software level. Intel lets you purchase a warranty that allows you to overvolt/overclock your CPU to your heart's content. I bought one for I think $25, lets me RMA my chip with no questions asked for whatever reason.

It's a pretty standard desire with many enthusiasts who buy these top end pieces of hardware to want to tweak, over-volt and over-clock them. Remember that just a year ago purchases of discreet video cards at the $300 price point or more accounted for less than 3% of all discreet cards sold. Going from that number to the very top end $500+cards, we may be talking 1% of the market.

It's a small niche and many in that niche want to over-volt. Never mind all the buyers who buy a mid-range card and want to push it to higher end performance, like a 7850 or 460 last time out.

GTX 680 is a pretty disappointing card as a flagship. It feels like a cheap card and has been the most boring 'flagship' GPU I've purchased. If nvidia is truly going to attempt to charge $900 for Titan, they damn well better let you over-volt it.

 

[RussianSensation]

I certainly think you should have the option, because you paid for the part: Over-volt manually, no warranty. Overclock, keep warranty. I don't know when this entitlement to running electronic components so far out of spec came up. Tell that to Intel or AMD's CPU divisions....

When cards like MSI Lightning 680 or EVGA Classified cost $600-660, why shouldn't they include warranty coverage with overvolting? You were paying a $160 premium for the Classified over a reference EVGA 680. Speaking of Intel, for $35 they'll let you destroy a $1000 3960-70 CPU with overclocking. I don't think Intel's/AMD divisions are a good example as both allow overclocking and overvolting. Both of those companies incur warranty costs associated with overclocking/overvolting but they haven't blocked those features. Intel even charges extra for K series CPUs intended for overclockers. Also, after AMD started shipping dual-BIOS switches on their cards and even shipped out free BIOS updates to HD7950/7970 users with HD7950 V2/7970GE bioses, that's also not a good example. Asus HD7970 Platinum is fully covered for maximum GPU overvoltage setting available in Asus GPU Tweak software. The card costs $499, far less than MSI Lightning 680 or EVGA Classy were. NV is the only company that recently took a hard stance against voltage control.

If nvidia is truly going to attempt to charge $900 for Titan, they damn well better let you over-volt it.

:thumbsup:

Elric agrees. $900 for a single GPU card, aimed squarely at enthusiasts, without voltage control would be very disappointing. GK110 under water with voltage control could be beastly.

 

[3DVagabond]

Pricing is based on many factors, and none of them have to do with what you personally will or won't buy. And of all people I know you know all of this Mrk6, so it isnt aimed at you:

Besides pure costs (bad yields, recouping development, etc) they also want to charge what the market tells it that it can.

If they come in too high, they will know due to the product not selling. If competition comes in, they will drop immediately. AMD allowed my 2nd GTX280 to be 2/3rds the price of the 1st one. That is just plain awesome.

If there are not a lot of them, then they can sit back and wait for the bleeding edgers to slowly pick them off of the shelves.

If I was nvidia or an AIB, it would be hard to convince me to give warranties to people who want to go beyond overclocking. I certainly think you should have the option, because you paid for the part: Over-volt manually, no warranty. Overclock, keep warranty.

I don't know when this entitlement to running electronic components so far out of spec came up. I had never heard of it. EVGA was one of the only AIBs allowing OC warranties.

I'm pretty sure it was when the nV dual-cards were burning up when over-volted a couple years back, then all of the sudden everyone came out of the woods and said over-volting with a warranty is a right.

Tell that to Intel or AMD's CPU divisions....

Nobody's claiming O/V'ing is a right. All they're saying is if it can't do it they won't buy it. That is their right. What matters is if enough people actually hold to this and don't buy them and buy the competitor's cards.

Just allowing this to happen is a mistake for us consumers. Want to see an example, look at SB-EP server CPU's. Because they are locked Intel can market 6 different 8c processors with clocks from 2.0GHz to 3.1GHz and charge from $1140 to $1935 (not counting the 2 low leakage models that they charge even more for) for incremental speed increases.

 

[tviceman]

Agreed with the last few posts regarding over-volting, and consumer choices, and warranties, etc. In all honesty though, current Keplers would not have benefited from overvolting. The entire lineup bandwidth capped or limited in most real-world situations, and only with 1:1 overclocking between core and memory do the gains add up linearly. For the vast majority of Kepler cards. overvolting would have just increased power usage, temps, and possibly RMA's - not frame rates. Perhaps Nvidia knew this?

 

[Jaydip]

So over-volting is a concern now? the stupidity here is really astounding.If anyone here really had Fermi they would now just having the option doesn't necessarily make it better.I had 580 and it wouldn't go past 825 MHz without a voltage bump. Compare that to Kepler and you guys will have your answers.Just because your competition offers it doesn't necessarily mean you have to follow suit.

 

[MrK6]

Pricing is based on many factors, and none of them have to do with what you personally will or won't buy. And of all people I know you know all of this Mrk6, so it isnt aimed at you...

I could care less if there's a warranty on my card for overclocking or not. To me that's something neophytes worry about. I have more than enough experience to not break any of my hardware when overclocking.

It's true that nvidia and its partners need to decide if offering software voltage control on its hardware is a selling point worth risking possibly higher RMA volumes for. Thankfully most programs don't allow voltage tweaking to levels where cards can be killed, but there are people who have no idea what they're doing and try to over volt a GTX 480 in an HTPC case on a generic PSU, then wonder why they smell smoke. However, I'm simply saying that not having the convenience of software voltage control is a big negative when I consider a part for purchase.

The other thing is, if the performance of Titan was to be incredible but it had no software overvolting mod, I would happily slap a trimmer on there if it was possible. But that's not even the case because Titan is already barely faster than my current 7970 @ 1.35GHz. Check any of the latest reviews @ 2560x1600 (e.g. http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/ARES_II/27.html) and a 7970 @ 1.35GHz is 80%+ of a GTX 690. Literally, Titan's overclocking headroom is the only thing that could tempt me (even then I'm not even going to seriously consider it until bitcoin mining becomes unprofitable). I'm trying to give Titan every benefit of the doubt to present itself as a suitable upgrade to my now over one-year-old 7970, as I like tinkering with new hardware, but it's not terribly impressive.

Anyway, some excellent points made in the last few posts gents, great discussion. :thumbsup:

 

[boxleitnerb]

TPU doesn't show the full potential of the 690 or the Ares II. CPU bottleneck...the 690 is 85% faster than the 680. TPU benches without MSAA in some games, what is up with that? Reviewers really need to step up their game and use demanding settings.

For a dual-GPU card, 1600p is not always enough, especially in older games.

 

[UaVaj]

given the prelimimary specs (85% of 690, 6GB, 384bit).

in comparison to 7970 cf (104% of 690, 3GB, 384bit).

will take two - if the price is $600 a piece.