Geforce MX 4 embedded in nForce 2

[briandwlee]

Hi.

I have a mainboard which has Geforce MX4 that is embedded in the mainboard with nForce 2 chipset. As far as I know, it shares RAM in the m/b, and I want to add a video card instead of using the onboard video. Do you guys think which option is the best bet for me?

1. Increase onboard RAM to 1GB from 512MB so that onboard Geforce 4 chipset can share more memory and mainboard can get more room to play.

2. Buy a new video card, such as Radeon 9600 SE or 9600 or something else. I want to get best performance with given budget around $100. Do you think it'll boost performance quite a bit if I add a card like this?

3. Have an old MX 2 video card with 32MB memory. I think it is way worse than onboard geforce 4. Is it right? Do you want me to donate it to someone?

Thanks so much.

Brian

 

[Acanthus]

I would get a new graphics card if you plan to game with it.

Get a Ti4200, or a 9600 (NOT SE).

 

[DAPUNISHER]

The G4MX IGP is much faster than that G2MX. If you have a $100 to spend and you are in the U.S. then you can find a Used G4 ti4600 or maybe even a 9600pro and get a major upgrade.

 

[briandwlee]

I don't play very latest games on this computer. Only play some little bit older games which do not require state of art technology. I am in Canada, but I can get used ones from the states. Ebay is the best place to get used ones?


Thanks.

Brian

 

[Acanthus]

The Ti4200 and 9600 are both low end cards by todays standards, thats why i reccomended them.

Anything less wont be able to play most 3d games made in the last couple years.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I neglected to ask if you have one or two sticks of ram? If it's in dual channel and you are playing nothing 3D FPS more demanding than UT2K3 then the IGP is fine.

 

[briandwlee]

Then, if I add 512MB of RAM and allocate like 256MB to embedded MX4, do you thin it'll be some upgrade too? I am allocating 64MB right now.

Thx.

Brian

 

[briandwlee]

I have one stick of RAM and my MB does not support sual channels. What's 3D FPS or UT2K3? Since I am not an intensive gamer, I just need modest poerformance of 3D and good colors. Resolution is not big deal with me since I have LCD which only supports upto 1024*768.

IF IGP is fine, is it beneficial for me to add one more stick of RAM than to add a video card?

Thx.

Brian

 

[briandwlee]

My system configuration is...

Shuttle Barebone SN42g2 which support 333MHZ with Athlon XP 2600.
Kingston HyperX 3500 512MB RAM
Onboard MX4 with 64MB shared RAM

Thanks very much.

Brian

 

[Harvey]

It really depends on what you want your video to do. If you want to play demanding games, as others have posted, you'll need more horsepower, but you'll have to pay for it. If not, and the onboard vid is the equivalent of an MX440, adding more RAM to your system will do exactly what you said, give you more available memory for apps.

Your GF2 is a nice piece to donate to a poor friend who just needs something that will display almost anything correctly. It's great for office apps or for an inexpensive machine to get your grandparents started on the web.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Your Shuttle SFF does support dual channel, add the extra stick of ram and you'll near double your graphics performance plus have much more ram available for apps. You can even add coolbits and overclock your IGP core speed using it

 

[Killrose]

Originally posted by: briandwlee
Then, if I add 512MB of RAM and allocate like 256MB to embedded MX4, do you thin it'll be some upgrade too? I am allocating 64MB right now.

Thx.

Brian

First off you need (2) sticks and dual channel operation to take full advantage of the onboard MX 4. I would also run at least pc2700/DDR333 speeds on my FSB. Also allocating 256mb for the on-board AGP would be a total waste. I doubt you would see any real advantage at anything above 64mb, though 128mb would be a good idea.

Keep in mind that you can't run above 166MHz FSB (though some have said it's more like 175MHz or so) with the on-board AGP enabled.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I ran 422 DC-DDR with the IGP enabled on the SL-75MRN-L Scored 6001 in 3DMock2k1se with that board, and the Biostar is guaranteed to run 400DDR

 

[bupkus]

I have a Ti4200 with 64MB of memory and it plays it's @ss off. If increasing your onboard memory allocation to the video chip from 64 to 128 would cause that kind of improvement in performance than why do the cards with 128MB of mem perform incrementally better than their 64MB counterparts?

As for system memory, I have (2) sticks of 256MB PC3500 and I only feel the pinch when I play UT2004. If you truely aren't playing such demanding games and your video is still suffering, then go with more video power (new card). Your system sounds strong enough as it is. Some tests have demonstrated that dual memory controllers provides a small boost in speed over a single (apples to apples).

You say you don't play that hard? I'm shopping right now for some game cards for motherboards with the nForce 220 chipset and video chip. I just recently tested the onboard video with 3DMarks2001SE and only got a 1500+ score. When I installed a128MB/64-bit FX5200 card it "jumped" up to 5000+. Now I don't know about those nForce2 chipsets with the onboard video, but if someone can pipe in here and suggest a coarse metric such as 3DMarks2001SE then perhaps we can figure a ballpark number for his board.

Cards I'm thinking of buying for my nForce1/220 boards:
1. Sapphire 9200 128MB/128-bit $64.50 @ newegg.com
2. Sapphire 9200 64MB/128-bit $53.50 @ newegg.com
3. Gigabyte 9200 128MB/128-bit $68.99 @ newegg.com

Sorry about the "newegg" mantra but from there I'm unlikely to get a much better price, and certainly not much better service.

Cheers,
-b

 

[briandwlee]

Given the info provided by Shuttle and its manual, this specific model does not support dual channel. Of course, I can add RAM upto 2GB. What I have is Shuttle SN41G2 Version 1(not Version 2), and even version 2 of it does not support dual channel either.

By the way, would you guys tell me which ATI is very equivalent to MX440? Radeon 9200 or 9600 or way older model?

Thank you so much for your help.

Regards,

Brian

 

[bupkus]

Here's where I've been spending the last couple hours:
Link to older but still valid card performance comparison.

Originally posted by: briandwlee
Given the info provided by Shuttle and its manual, this specific model does not support dual channel. Of course, I can add RAM upto 2GB. What I have is Shuttle SN41G2 Version 1(not Version 2), and even version 2 of it does not support dual channel either.

By the way, would you guys tell me which ATI is very equivalent to MX440? Radeon 9200 or 9600 or way older model?

Thank you so much for your help.

Regards,

Brian

 

[Pete]

I believe nForce 2 by definition is dual-channel. nForce 1, OTOH, came in single (220) and dual (440) configs. So you should see an immediate improvement just by adding another stick of 256MB PC2700 (joshman at Ars may still have one for US$25 shipped [Canada, if he'll even ship there, may be extra]). You will see a big speed jump because by adding a second stick to get dual-channel mode, you double the IGP's bandwidth (from 64-bit to 128-bit). Upping the RAM it reserves from 64MB to 128MB may help with texture-heavy games, but it shouldn't offer that much of a speed boost.

But adding a separate card will be faster all around b/c the CPU will have the system RAM all to itself and a GF4Ti or 9600P will be just plain faster than the IGP (tons more fillrate and bandwidth). You should be able to snag a 4200 for ~US$50, and I've seen 4600s go for US$75. Heck, you may get lucky and score a used 9700s for as little as US$100.

IIRC, a GF4MX 440 is about as fast as a Radeon 9200. The IGP on your MB is not an MX 440, though--more like an MX420, and that's only in dual-channel mode at that.

As for your Shuttle, I thought the different versions simply denoted improved cases, not updated MBs? http://us.shuttle.com/specs_access.asp?pro_id=284 I'd start with doubling your RAM via another stick, and see if that improves game performance enough to satisfy you. 10x7 is a rather tall order for integrated graphics, though, so you may want to add a used GF4 4200 as well.

 

[briandwlee]

Thanks a bunch for all your help.

BTW, as far as I understand the dual channel, it only works if I install same type of RAM(even same configuration from possibly same manufacturer). Since I have PC3500 RAM, I think i need to add a PC3500 also. Am I right?

Thanks.

Brian

 

[Pete]

I suppose so. I have no experience with dual-channel at all, but I'm guessing if you're only running that PC3500 at PC2700 speeds, you may be able to add a PC2700 stick and be fine. I'd go with another of the same PC3500 to be safe, if you can afford it.

 

[briandwlee]

So the conclusion is...

Best option: Add a new card, such as used Radeon 9600 Pro or used Ti4600 and increase RAM to 1GB
Second option: Add a new card and keep the RAM at 512MB.
Third option: Add a new card such as Radeon 9600 non-Pro or Ti4200.

and.... donate the MX2.

Thank you very much.


Brian

 

[Pete]

It sounds like you're on a relatively tight budget, so my recommendation would be to:

1. Add another stick of 256MB PC3500. You'll want to do this anyway, so why not start with this first, to see if you can avoid paying for an extra video card? 1GB is probably overkill for "older games," too. I think you'd be better off with 512MB and a faster video card than 1GB and a slower one.
2. Add a used GF4Ti/9600P/9700 (in increasing order of desirability) if you want faster framerates.

And yes, sell/donate the GF2MX anyway.

 

[briandwlee]

Thanks, Pete.

Actually, I am not on a that tight budget, but I want to maximize cost efficiency because this computer is my kids', who are 6 and 3 respectively. I think current system is well overkill for my kids, but I want to add some more room because from time to time I use this computer too.

Thank you again for your all support and help. I really appreciate it. I'll try ebay to see if I can find good used ones from a good fella over there.

Thanks.

Brian

PS. I heard R9700 has bit of problem. Is it right? I am using R9500 Pro in my own PC which I am super satisfied with. Thanks.

 

[bupkus]

You can always spend more money and buy more/better hardware. I suggest getting or trying a new video card and reserving your decision about RAM until after you see the results of the new card. I believe you'll be surprised at the improved performance and find any additional memory at this time unnecessary.

Originally posted by: briandwlee
Thanks, Pete.

Actually, I am not on a that tight budget, but I want to maximize cost efficiency because this computer is my kids', who are 6 and 3 respectively. I think current system is well overkill for my kids, but I want to add some more room because from time to time I use this computer too.

Thank you again for your all support and help. I really appreciate it. I'll try ebay to see if I can find good used ones from a good fella over there.

Thanks.

Brian

PS. I heard R9700 has bit of problem. Is it right? I am using R9500 Pro in my own PC which I am super satisfied with. Thanks.