• Guest, The rules for the P & N subforum have been updated to prohibit "ad hominem" or personal attacks against other posters. See the full details in the post "Politics and News Rules & Guidelines."

GeForce GTX460 rumoured to launch at Computex

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
14,387
475
126
This card, even if it were as good as happy medium wants it to be, is just not for me. Im holding out for a singel high end card, which i can then Crossfire/Sli.

Thing is, i want to do this without even having to worry about heat, noise or power consumption. The 5870 would have been that deal if i was in the market 6 months ago.

Im looking forward to whatever comes next to be honest. Either a refresh of Fermi, or a 68xx

If these cards, in SLI, can surpass a gtx480 for 200 bucks each, it would seem a good deal.
Thanks for the explanation guys.

I really don't need a super high end card. I game mostly at 1600x1200 or at 720p on the 37 inch lcd with plenty of aa/af.

I'm not paying $300+ for a card (5850) and I really don't want to crossfire just yet because sometimes games are not crossfire ready at launch.
A 5830 is too exspensive for it's performance and a 5770 is too slow.
A gtx 460 would be just what I'm looking for to get me through till the ati/fermi refresh.:)
 

happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
14,387
475
126
But..it may not be out before the fermi refresh or the ati 68xx..
I thought the launch was around June 6th?
I played every game worth playing (except I'm not done Just Cause 2 at high settings) up till now on my overclocked 5750 just fine at med/high settings.

Mabe I'll upgrade my monitor when I upgrade my card. :D
 

tviceman

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2008
6,733
513
126
www.facebook.com
It probably wouldn't and shouldn't. The GTX 470 is about 20-25% faster than a GTX285 (if someone wants to refine that estimate, be my guest), but has almost double the shaders; performance isn't going to scale proportionally with shaders. However, if the specs given are true, the GTX 460 should be a bit faster than the GTX 285 without cannibalizing the GTX 470. An MSRP of $200-220 would sell like hotcakes, but then I would have thought a $300-320 MSRP for the GTX470 would have made more sense too. That said, I'd guess $250 MSRP and slightly faster than a GTX 285. Who knows, we could be pleasantly (or unpleasantly) surprised.
I think these are all pretty accurate guesses/assumptions about the price and performance of the gtx460.
 

ronnn

Diamond Member
May 22, 2003
3,918
0
71
I bet they have a version of this that is not a cut down wasted fermi. That is the version I would want. Nice performance and efficient.

Also the Charlie spin could be totally wrong and this is a new chip.
 

toyota

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
12,957
1
0
I bet they have a version of this that is not a cut down wasted fermi. That is the version I would want. Nice performance and efficient.

Also the Charlie spin could be totally wrong and this is a new chip.
very doubtful its a new chip. launching with a gtx480 and gtx470 pretty much guaranteed there would inevitably be a cut down gtx460 based on the same chip.
 

ronnn

Diamond Member
May 22, 2003
3,918
0
71
Of course the 5830 type variant was always in the cards, but the main part of that market will be served by a 5770 type gpu. Don't see why Nvidia won't get the fermi variants out the door in a timely fashion. Am looking forward to them myself - as I am not a top of line space heater type guy.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
744
126
I hope so and at 250$ that would be sweet.
This is exactly the problem with the current GPU market - - thinking that $250 for GTX460 in June of 2010 is a good deal. We would generally expect 1.5-1.7x the performance increase every 12 months or prices to fall in half. For example, 5850 was $259 in September of 2009.

Every single videocard above 5770 is currently overpriced relative to what we have seen in history - that is videocard prices generally fall over time until new generation is released. This is the first generation in a while that isn't following this trend. Prices are actually rising even now...by June of 2010 it would have been very reasonable to get a 5870 for $260 based on the past. Looks like 40nm shortages and lack of competition from NV for 7 months are to blame. With a competitive NV, ATI would have never gotten away with $250 5830s and $320 5850s.
 

toyota

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
12,957
1
0
This is exactly the problem with the current GPU market - - thinking that $250 for GTX460 in June of 2010 is a good deal. We would generally expect 1.5-1.7x the performance increase every 12 months or prices to fall in half. For example, 5850 was $259 in September of 2009.

Every single videocard above 5770 is currently overpriced relative to what we have seen in history - that is videocard prices generally fall over time until new generation is released. This is the first generation in a while that isn't following this trend. Prices are actually rising even now...by June of 2010 it would have been very reasonable to get a 5870 for $260 based on the past. Looks like 40nm shortages and lack of competition from NV for 7 months are to blame. With a competitive NV, ATI would have never gotten away with $250 5830s and $320 5850s.
yep and thats why I am sticking to the old gtx260 for now. hell even those go for more now than what I paid 18 months ago. its just a terrible time if you want a bang for buck higher end card.
 

happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
14,387
475
126
This is exactly the problem with the current GPU market - - thinking that $250 for GTX460 in June of 2010 is a good deal. We would generally expect 1.5-1.7x the performance increase every 12 months or prices to fall in half. For example, 5850 was $259 in September of 2009.

Every single videocard above 5770 is currently overpriced relative to what we have seen in history - that is videocard prices generally fall over time until new generation is released. This is the first generation in a while that isn't following this trend. Prices are actually rising even now...by June of 2010 it would have been very reasonable to get a 5870 for $260 based on the past. Looks like 40nm shortages and lack of competition from NV for 7 months are to blame. With a competitive NV, ATI would have never gotten away with $250 5830s and $320 5850s.
I don't see your point.
5770 160$
5830 should be 200$ for its performance. little slower then a gtx 275
gtx 460 should be 240$ if it performs like a gtx 285.
5850 is ~ 25% faster then the gtx 285 for about 290$

It seems to work out ok. The 5830 screws things up with its 225$ price tag.(last I looked)
 

toyota

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
12,957
1
0
I don't see your point.
5770 160$
5830 should be 200$ for its performance. little slower then a gtx 275
gtx 460 should be 240$ if it performs like a gtx 285.
5850 is ~ 25% faster then the gtx 285 for about 290$

It seems to work out ok.
no it doesnt. all the new ATI cards increased the performance but increased their respective price ranges. then on top of that the cards got even more expensive. the 5000 series offers no where near the bang for buck that was present in the 4000 series. now Nvidia seems to be following suit with very high prices for the performance given.

if you are going to compare this gen to last as for as prices go then that is NOT the way to do it. if we used that logic every generation then we would be paying several thousand dollars for video cards by now. each new gen of products are supposed to increase performance while keeping about the same price points not moving them significantly higher and higher.

the gtx260 was sub $200 over a year ago and you cant even buy a new gen $200 card that beats it across the board. and even the prices of the gtx260 have gone up a bit which makes things even sillier if you want to get older tech for a decent price. sorry but prices absolutely suck right now for higher end cards.
 
Last edited:

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
744
126
I don't see your point.
5830 should be 200$ for its performance. little slower then a gtx 275
No, that's what 5830's MSRP should have been at launch, at most. Right now it should be way under $200 because in June of 2009 4890 and GTX275 were $180-200 and those cards are not much slower. In fact, both 4890 and GTX275 often beat a 5830: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/xfx-radeon-hd5830_6.html#sect1

You would normally expect 50-70% of the performance of GTX275/4890 cards (i.e., what 5870 offers) for $260-270 by the time GTX460 launches (which is more than 12 months from the launch of GTX275/4890).

GTX285 is a 1.5-year-old card that was overpriced to begin with (released in January of 2009, and its price stayed at $350+ throughout the summer of 2009). So using its price/performance ratio to arrive at a reasonable price of GTX460 is not the best example imo.

Also, 5770 still cannot beat GTX275/4890. However, you could purchase it at Zipzoomfly for $130 about 1-2 months ago with MIR, making it a more reasonable budget gaming card.
 
Last edited:

BenSkywalker

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,140
67
91
I think the price on the rumored GTX 460 will have more to do with what they are yielding them at then what level of performance it has. Current reports have them hitting 20%-30% yield rates for the 470/480, if ~75% of the 'bad' chips could be binned as 460s I could see nV pushing this part out the door for ~$200. I don't particularly find that likely, but I see the yields being the deciding factor on what they are going to hit for a price point more then anything else. If this just gives them another 10% of useable die, I would expect it to be in the $250 range no matter what the performance.

As of right now, despite the fact that we are all lamenting the poorest price/performance level we have seen in quite some time, all of the available parts are selling extremely well(outside perhaps the 5830). Given what the 460 is, a part to maximize the revenue generated per wafer, I think that yield rate is going to be the deciding factor on pricing.
 

happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
14,387
475
126
Mabe we were all spoiled by the super low prices last year?
4890's for 165$. That was just ridiculous.
Gtx 260's for 160$
4850's for 100$

Edit : nice post Ben, I agree.
 

Attic

Diamond Member
Jan 9, 2010
4,282
2
76
If this thing hits and is as fast or possibly faster than a GTX285 and sits close to 200 bucks, it's going to be a real winner.

But there were similar big expectations for the 5830 and look what happened....
 
Last edited:

HurleyBird

Platinum Member
Apr 22, 2003
2,323
758
136
Hopefully this part doesen't fail like HD 5830 did. Will be very interesting to see how tesselation is affected by losing all those shaders.
 

blanketyblank

Golden Member
Jan 23, 2007
1,149
0
0
no it doesnt. all the new ATI cards increased the performance but increased their respective price ranges. then on top of that the cards got even more expensive. the 5000 series offers no where near the bang for buck that was present in the 4000 series. now Nvidia seems to be following suit with very high prices for the performance given.

if you are going to compare this gen to last as for as prices go then that is NOT the way to do it. if we used that logic every generation then we would be paying several thousand dollars for video cards by now. each new gen of products are supposed to increase performance while keeping about the same price points not moving them significantly higher and higher.

the gtx260 was sub $200 over a year ago and you cant even buy a new gen $200 card that beats it across the board. and even the prices of the gtx260 have gone up a bit which makes things even sillier if you want to get older tech for a decent price. sorry but prices absolutely suck right now for higher end cards.
I'm not sure you're comparing prices at the right periods though. 48xx cards have been sold for extremely good prices a few months ago, but that's because they were basically being clearanced out. However before then they were sold for a much higher price. When I bought my 4850 it was for $150 and that was when it was on sale. If it wasn't it would have been about $200. I believe the 4870 was 250-300 and the gtx 260 was more than that.

Considering a 5770 is aroun 150 now and has equal performance to the 4870, I'd say you're getting more performance for your money in the midrange sector. ATI didn't really have a card that overpowered NV's lineup last generation, but with the 58xx series I'd say they were priced quite cheap considering GTX 260 was like 330 and GTX 280 was like 500 at launch.

In other words the pricing is normal and perfomance has increased. You are just comparing the wrong time period. 5xxx cards are still fairly new so they should not be compared to last year prices of old gen hardware when they were being clearanced, but should be compared to prices a few months after launch.
 

toyota

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
12,957
1
0
I'm not sure you're comparing prices at the right periods though. 48xx cards have been sold for extremely good prices a few months ago, but that's because they were basically being clearanced out. However before then they were sold for a much higher price. When I bought my 4850 it was for $150 and that was when it was on sale. If it wasn't it would have been about $200. I believe the 4870 was 250-300 and the gtx 260 was more than that.

Considering a 5770 is aroun 150 now and has equal performance to the 4870, I'd say you're getting more performance for your money in the midrange sector. ATI didn't really have a card that overpowered NV's lineup last generation, but with the 58xx series I'd say they were priced quite cheap considering GTX 260 was like 330 and GTX 280 was like 500 at launch.

In other words the pricing is normal and perfomance has increased. You are just comparing the wrong time period. 5xxx cards are still fairly new so they should not be compared to last year prices of old gen hardware when they were being clearanced, but should be compared to prices a few months after launch.
your argument doesnt add up. I paid $189(and it came with a game) for the gtx260 less than 5 months after launch. the higher end 5000 series cards have been out for nearly 7 months and have only gone up in price. again show me a new gen $189 card that can even beat my 18 month old gtx260. heck the $230 5830 can barley do that and not even in every case. sorry but the current higher end cards from both companies are horrible values.
 
Last edited:

bunnyfubbles

Lifer
Sep 3, 2001
12,248
3
0
Even if the 460 has a rarely plentiful supply when considering the Fermi yields, there's no way it sells for $200 unless that's where its performance lies (ie really bad performance).

If it can at least match a GTX285 then it will definitely go for $250 and still likely be price gouged.

Too many people here sound exactly like those back upon the release of the 5850 who hoped it would be $200 and/or would at least quickly drop below its original $259 MSRP...and look what happened there...

If you really want a new card worthy of a $200 price point you'll still have to wait (or double up on the 5700s or something). There's also GF104 to keep an eye out for.
 

bunnyfubbles

Lifer
Sep 3, 2001
12,248
3
0
I bought my GTX 260 Core 216 w/ Arkham Asylum last year in May for $160 shipped from Newegg.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130434
It now costs $200.

I bought my HD 5770 w/ Dirt 2 in January for $130 shipped.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814150447
It now costs $170.

Funny things happen, I don't like it very much.
you got lucky with your 5770, the general price trend for the 5700s has been decrease, not increase.

The reason the GTX200s are actually climbing is supply is drying up (nVidia actually stopped production) with demand at least remaining steady.
 

Madcatatlas

Golden Member
Feb 22, 2010
1,155
0
0
250 is .."kind a" too much if you ask me.
it should be closer to the 200 mark for it to be viable, DEPENDING on performance ofcourse. But imagine the 5850 at its introduced nongouged price. It may very well be the scenario we see in a few months.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY

TRENDING THREADS