GeForce 6 series video processor OFFICIAL THREAD

[Ice27181]

Since you more or less managed to get back to topic (against my expectations), here some interresting news:
In another forum there are two guys who claim that for a few days now on an internal nVidia-FTP-server for press and beta testers (of course with password protection) there are some new additional *.dll files for the Microsoft MediaPlayer.
Unfortunately I have no way to check this claim, but that surely sounds interresting to me! Could be the promised WMV-acceleration...

 

[Malichite]

I guess the reason I keep responding with a bewildered look epking is that you never seem to completely read my posts. Case in point:

For a second try not to think in terms of what should happen as far as cpu numbers. Think merely in terms of whether it plays satisfactorily or not. In the same machine, these vids were playing before the 6800 upgrade. Now they are not. Whether that makes sense or not... it does appear that is exactly what is happening for a number of users across these threads. If I remember right there was some discussion on this waay back towards the beginning of this thread..along with some comments on HT giving false positives.

If you had read closer you would notice that my 6800 Ultra runs in the low 80's and NEVER drops a single frame, yet the 9700 without HT ran in the high 80's and low 90's and DROPPED frames. I don't care whether or not the CPU utilization is higher/lower it DROPPED frames, thus my statement that it doesn't offer better viewing performance seems completely valid. Like I said all anyone needs to do is take a screen screenshot with their 9700 cruising along a 40-50% without HT and showing the stat page with 0 Dropped frames as this was clearly not my experience.

I am not trying to convert you epking and I believe that many other have problems with their 6800, but I simply wanted to post my experience with other cards to give some perspective that nothing is rosey in either nVidia nor ATI's camp. It is alway easy to make subjective comments about past experiences, but that really doesn't provide any definitive proof to bolster the argument that every other DX9 handles WMVHD just fine. I fully acknowledge that my CPU is what is keeping me above the line, but that doesn't change the fact that in my tests the other two test cards GFFX5900/9700 did NO better. If those GPUs were in fact making any serious impact I would have seen significant reductions in the CPU's utilization numbers. While I agree these numbers don't necessarily equate to viewing experience, I can't remember too many complaining that they are dropping frames when they are running at 50% utilization, unless they have other conflicts in their setup.

-Malichite

 

[bpt8056]

Saw this in another thread:

about wmv accelleration...

"Its not missing by mistake. It was removed because we need a hotfix from Microsoft to enable this functionality. We will turn it on when Microsoft releases it. We have been ready with this feature for a very looong time now, however we have dependencies beyond our control" -CM from B3D

It may be that nVidia is waiting for MS to deliver a hotfix before they release the drivers. Based on Rollo's information, nVidia may already have working VP-enabled drivers in place but awaiting MS to hand out the final piece of the puzzle to the public. Now I'm just speculating and nVidia may be in the same boat as ATI....they can't do anything at this point until Microsoft addresses this issue. Maybe we should rant in a different channel.

But that doesn't necessarily mean that the PVP will be fully functional in the 6800 series so we'll have to wait until everything falls into place and compare our results.

 

[Chippy99]

Originally posted by: bpt8056
Saw this in another thread:

about wmv accelleration...

"Its not missing by mistake. It was removed because we need a hotfix from Microsoft to enable this functionality. We will turn it on when Microsoft releases it. We have been ready with this feature for a very looong time now, however we have dependencies beyond our control" -CM from B3D

It may be that nVidia is waiting for MS to deliver a hotfix before they release the drivers.

I can't buy that. I am not saying they are not waiting for some stuff from MS - maybe they are. But to try to pin the whole problem on MS? Come off it.

And apart from anything else, what does that mean for DIVX HD material - which doesn't work either? Or for HD material in other media players? Are nVidia saying HD acceleration is going to be WMP10 only? I bloody well hope not!

Chip

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: bpt8056
Saw this in another thread:

about wmv accelleration...

"Its not missing by mistake. It was removed because we need a hotfix from Microsoft to enable this functionality. We will turn it on when Microsoft releases it. We have been ready with this feature for a very looong time now, however we have dependencies beyond our control" -CM from B3D

It may be that nVidia is waiting for MS to deliver a hotfix before they release the drivers. Based on Rollo's information, nVidia may already have working VP-enabled drivers in place but awaiting MS to hand out the final piece of the puzzle to the public. Now I'm just speculating and nVidia may be in the same boat as ATI....they can't do anything at this point until Microsoft addresses this issue. Maybe we should rant in a different channel.

But that doesn't necessarily mean that the PVP will be fully functional in the 6800 series so we'll have to wait until everything falls into place and compare our results.

I said the same thing in my last post in this thread, so it is good to see someone else who is hopeful this is the case.

I'm getting some very odd results with these 71.20's, down to dropping just 20 frames with MP10 by switching to high quality mode, and the CPU usage spikes even slightly higher.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: Chippy99

Originally posted by: bpt8056
Saw this in another thread:

about wmv accelleration...

"Its not missing by mistake. It was removed because we need a hotfix from Microsoft to enable this functionality. We will turn it on when Microsoft releases it. We have been ready with this feature for a very looong time now, however we have dependencies beyond our control" -CM from B3D

It may be that nVidia is waiting for MS to deliver a hotfix before they release the drivers.

I can't buy that. I am not saying they are not waiting for some stuff from MS - maybe they are. But to try to pin the whole problem on MS? Come off it.

And apart from anything else, what does that mean for DIVX HD material - which doesn't work either? Or for HD material in other media players? Are nVidia saying HD acceleration is going to be WMP10 only? I bloody well hope not!

Chip

I don't believe it is all on MS, and I doubt he does either, But there is precedence for new technologies having to wait for 3rd party support so it could be a factor in this.

 

[Ice27181]

If that's true, why doesn't nVidia just tell it's Mikrosoft's fault? OK, they can't afford to make M$ mad, but they could at least say something like "we are working together mit MS and it is only a matter of time..."!!!

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: Ice27181
If that's true, why doesn't nVidia just tell it's Mikrosoft's fault? OK, they can't afford to make M$ mad, but they could at least say something like "we are working together mit MS and it is only a matter of time..."!!!

If you read that quote made@B3D, someone from nV evidently did say excatly that.

about wmv accelleration...

"Its not missing by mistake. It was removed because we need a hotfix from Microsoft to enable this functionality. We will turn it on when Microsoft releases it. We have been ready with this feature for a very looong time now, however we have dependencies beyond our control" -CM from B3D

 

[LoneWolf15]

I'll consider ranting in a different channel when nVidia issues a very clear press release, stating what is going on. That's all they'd need to do is issue one to multiple major hardware sites (Anandtech, HardOCP, Tech Report, etc.) and it would be clear to everyone what is going on. I don't see them choosing to do this. I admit that if the above were true, doing it would put Microsoft in the hot seat, but perhaps it would still be wise to remember one's customers.

 

[fbrdphreak]

Wait guys, I've got it! I figured out nVidia's "scheme" !!
(1) Fvck PVP on all 6800's
(2) Force users to go PCI-E, but only put working PVP's on 6600's
(3) Thus forcing users to buy nForce4 PCI-E board, 6600 PCI-E for PVP, 6800 for games
(4) Profit
I figured it out!!

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: fbrdphreak
Wait guys, I've got it! I figured out nVidia's "scheme" !!
(1) Fvck PVP on all 6800's
(2) Force users to go PCI-E, but only put working PVP's on 6600's
(3) Thus forcing users to buy nForce4 PCI-E board, 6600 PCI-E for PVP, 6800 for games
(4) Profit
I figured it out!!

Who told you this?!?!?! I don't remember seeing you at the meeting.....ooops........

 

[VirtualLarry]

Dammit, what's the "secret NV owner's club" handshake again, Rollo? I've forgotten it since my GF2 MX died, and I can't get access to download new beta/PureVaporwareVideo drivers anymore...

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
Dammit, what's the "secret NV owner's club" handshake again, Rollo? I've forgotten it since my GF2 MX died, and I can't get access to download new beta/PureVaporwareVideo drivers anymore...

We link thumbs, clench hands, and say "HA HA HA" VL.

Six more days and counting.......

 

[imported_humey]

If it is MS fault and WMP, why does 6600 and 6200 work now on current drivers and why dont 6800 range work in powerdvd, which since build 3 (CURRENT 6) has had tickbox to use hardware accel and finally it not work in POS nvidia dvd player. (YES IVE TRIED THEM ALL ON 6800 U)

 

[epking]

Originally posted by: humey
If it is MS fault and WMP, why does 6600 and 6200 work now on current drivers and why dont 6800 range work in powerdvd, which since build 3 (CURRENT 6) has had tickbox to use hardware accel and finally it not work in POS nvidia dvd player. (YES IVE TRIED THEM ALL ON 6800 U)

good point about the 6600, yeah....if it needed a patch to work, why is WMP and everything working out of the box with the 6600's.

humey, if you want to get dvd accel, and can stand to make a move away from powerdvd, i recommend using the new nvidia codecs for $19.99 and zoomplayer. Zoomplayer is free, and you can configure it to use any codecs you wish...i often switch back and forth between, windvd6, powerdvd6, and nvdvd 4.0. I also use the very nice looking elecard decoder from time to time. I don't particularly like the gui of zoomplayer...but its a fantastic, powerful program. Anyways, the Nvidia codecs and zoomplayer will give you a phenominal dvd image. Powerdvd codecs are not even in the same league. It sucks to have to pay the $19.99...i suppose one wouldn't have to if you know what i mean...but i went ahead and bought them, and they were well worth it. I'm now getting the best looking dvd image i've ever seen. Its the only reason this card hasn't been returned, because its other video shortcomings, are very nearly a dealbreakker. Also, with these nvidia codecs purchased, you can play dvd's through wmp10. There is also another cool bonus to the codec purchase, there is a bonus software/dvd player,slideshow, media player, called nstant.exe. Its buried in the nvidia program folder, but its actually a real powerful little program, its basically a Windows Media Center like interface..made for big screen tv navigation. Its pretty cool.. and it uses the codecs, and has a real simple dvd interface. Also about the codecs, they have a nice hardware accel, idct...but imo, software mode, and VPP is really the extraordinary picture.

sorry if you knew part or all of this, but even so, maybe it can be helpful to someone.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: epking
humey, if you want to get dvd accel, and can stand to make a move away from powerdvd, i recommend using the new nvidia codecs for $19.99 and zoomplayer. Zoomplayer is free, and you can configure it to use any codecs you wish...i often switch back and forth between, windvd6, powerdvd6, and nvdvd 4.0. I also use the very nice looking elecard decoder from time to time. I don't particularly like the gui of zoomplayer...but its a fantastic, powerful program. Anyways, the Nvidia codecs and zoomplayer will give you a phenominal dvd image.

Interesting. Has NV reversed their stance, on blacklisting certain player programs from being able to utilize their codecs? They used to only allow their "enhanced" (for-pay) DVD-playback codecs to work with certain media-playback apps. (Yeah, it sounds slightly dirty, and IMHO it is. At least in theory, any codec should work with any player, if they both adhere to specs. But that's not always the case in the real world. Just so that people don't think that I'm being partisian here, I've seen similar issues with ATI's MMC stuff and their player, only working with certain revs of their own drivers, etc.)

 

[epking]

they've got some weird thing about it. I know they have some exclusive deal with theatertek , which is a fantastic, but expensive player(some at AVS think this is why they no longer have NVDVD versions). And then the codecs themselves can play with any "direct show capable" player Is how they put it i think. They've designed it mostly for WMP10 i believe, but programs like ZOomplayer work. Zoomplayer has always worked for basically any codec, its awesome. It just searches the registry for what codecs you have, and you have all sorts of options as to how you wanna configure it. Then zoomplayer one can do some advanced stuff as well like ffdshow postprocess and upscale, ect.. Another cool thing about zoomplayer is one can mix and match codecs, say for example, you really like the image quality of nvidia, and then the sound enhancements of windvd6...so, all of that stuff is possible. I usually use windvd audio and nvdvd software VPP video, but anything is possible. As we speak, I'm getting ready to fire up the new LOTR Return of King Extended eEdition. That ought to look pretty nice, looking foward to it....it should be what like 6 hours now with the additional footage/// lol. Even still, I'll love every minute, except maybe the homo-erotic hobbit stuff at the end.:lips:

 

[imported_DanW]

Zoomplayer works with DirectShow filters of any sort. Most codec makers use this because it is the same format used with WMP9 and WMP10. This is a standard Windows interface intended for this very use.

DanW

 

[James3shin]

*Yawn* This thing is still going on? Go play some games on those cards folks...*passes out*

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: James3shin
*Yawn* This thing is still going on? Go play some games on those cards folks...*passes out*

You're in trouble now James.....




I am new to the ways of my X800XT PE, but it did not play Step Into Liquid 1080 any better than my 6800GT used to. I don't know that it's supposed to, but I've seen posts in this thread about how the 6800s are far worse than every other DX9 card (evah!) and I saw the Xbit thing where some cards have lower cpu utilization.

I'll look into ATI video more when I get a chance. The "Rage Theatre" chip on the back didn't seem to be helping, although I've also read that playing this accelerated on ATI involves using it's shaders, and this feature is inactive.

I'm using their new 412 drivers.

 

[LoneWolf15]

Originally posted by: epking

Originally posted by: humey
If it is MS fault and WMP, why does 6600 and 6200 work now on current drivers and why dont 6800 range work in powerdvd, which since build 3 (CURRENT 6) has had tickbox to use hardware accel and finally it not work in POS nvidia dvd player. (YES IVE TRIED THEM ALL ON 6800 U)

good point about the 6600, yeah....if it needed a patch to work, why is WMP and everything working out of the box with the 6600's.

Last I knew, it was not. The feature is not enabled in any drivers for any Geforce 6 at the moment, unless they just added it for the 62/66 variants. I asked for posts on this last week on HardOCP from 6600 owners, and all of them had the same high CPU usage we do.

Which means that even if the feature is "broken" for 68xx folks and "not broken" for 66xx owners, that the feature is still broken in software.

 

[imported_DanW]

Originally posted by: James3shin
*Yawn* This thing is still going on? Go play some games on those cards folks...*passes out*

You are more than welcome to stop reading/posting to this thread if its boring you. One might even wonder just how boring your life would have to be for you to need someone else to point this out to you.

Originally posted by: LoneWolf15

Originally posted by: epking

Originally posted by: humey
If it is MS fault and WMP, why does 6600 and 6200 work now on current drivers and why dont 6800 range work in powerdvd, which since build 3 (CURRENT 6) has had tickbox to use hardware accel and finally it not work in POS nvidia dvd player. (YES IVE TRIED THEM ALL ON 6800 U)

good point about the 6600, yeah....if it needed a patch to work, why is WMP and everything working out of the box with the 6600's.

Last I knew, it was not. The feature is not enabled in any drivers for any Geforce 6 at the moment, unless they just added it for the 62/66 variants. I asked for posts on this last week on HardOCP from 6600 owners, and all of them had the same high CPU usage we do.

Which means that even if the feature is "broken" for 68xx folks and "not broken" for 66xx owners, that the feature is still broken in software.

This matches what I have surmised so far. There is little to no evidence that anyone has seen this work at all. MPEG2 decoding may have been shown to work on all cards by the X-Bit report, but that may well be exposed as DXVA. For those of you who aren't familiar with DXVA, it is a standard for hardware MPEG2 acceleration that is available in many video cards. Anyway its hard to tell much at all from the X-Bit report because they didn't provide much information on their testing methodology.


DanW

 

[James3shin]

hahahah, im just saying instead of watching cpu usage percentages, why don't you go and play games, thats what the card is meant for, no? and me yawning was not due to the subjects matter, i was simply dead tired, look at the time of post, i aslo can not sleep due to finals....so how about we just chill out on this k? Jeez, rollo you were right, i got blitzed for throwing in my 2 cents

 

[Squally Leonharty]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: James3shin
*Yawn* This thing is still going on? Go play some games on those cards folks...*passes out*

You're in trouble now James.....




I am new to the ways of my X800XT PE, but it did not play Step Into Liquid 1080 any better than my 6800GT used to. I don't know that it's supposed to, but I've seen posts in this thread about how the 6800s are far worse than every other DX9 card (evah!) and I saw the Xbit thing where some cards have lower cpu utilization.

I'll look into ATI video more when I get a chance. The "Rage Theatre" chip on the back didn't seem to be helping, although I've also read that playing this accelerated on ATI involves using it's shaders, and this feature is inactive.

I'm using their new 412 drivers.

I might then as well point out some things regarding WMV acceleration of X800 XT PE cards:
- FastWrite should be enabled (for ATI cards, this doesn't cause instability, unlike nVidia's cards);
- Catalysts 4.12 have the WMV Acceleration option (partially) disabled and you can't turn it on manually (ATI said that they'll enable it fully when Microsoft has released a certain fix regarding WMV acceleration). Use 4.11 instead as they have the option visible, so you can enable/disable it (it's enabled by default).

WMV acceleration works perfectly fine for me with my X800 XT PE. What's really surprising, though, is the fact that my CPU usage is below 5% during the first 30 - 40 seconds of the movie and then hovers between 60% and 90%. No idea what causes it, but regardless of that everything is playing very smoothly.

Hope that helps.

Edit: Actually... I've just tested this with the new 4.12 drivers and it seems performance is still equal. I guess it's still enabled after all, but most likely only partially, seeing that ATI made that comment about Microsoft's fix.

 

[epking]

is that the only thing out there showing the 6600's working? I thought i had read some other benches. I could be mistaken. The xbit report was the one claiming the 6800's were working also right? It was obviously flawed. Anyways, maybe I'm wrong, but I thought I saw benches that the 6600's were indeed working. I was thinking of even trading my my 6800std for a 6600gt, but if you guys says its not working, god, i don't want to make another mistake on this deal. I just want a good card for HTPC, and gaming. This card only does gaming.

I just watched the new LOTR edition on this card last night...About dvd playback on this card, I'm outputting dvi to my hdtv at 1920x1080i. In dvd playback,, even in DXVA hardware accel mode, if I even click on my taskbar, or hit the start button(on the other monitor), the video skips. I have tried every combination of output modes to get this down, VMR9 windowed, VmR9windowless, VMR7, overlay, ect....it matters not. If i move the mouse onto the taskbar, or someone IM's, it stutters dvd playback. This is just extraordinary that something so menial would bog it down. Again, you guys can say the radeons are no different or whatever, but they play these WinHD clips, including step into liquid, and one can multitask without issue during dvd playback. I have an xp3200, which isn't high end, but it shouldn't struggle during dvd either. Some of you may have a harder time seeing what I do with higher processors, but there are plenty other like me, reporting the EXACT same experience. So much so, it shouldn't even be in question. Yes, the 9700/9800 series plays winHD far better, and yes, it does DVD faR better. Moreover, I can't confirm about the 5900's, but several people have reported the same thing with them, before they could play WinHD, and multitask in Dvd, now they cannot. The 6800 is a downgrade in as far as video playback performance. Its the broken video processor folks.