Well, I didn't read all the 43 pages, but caught the essentials. Did nVIDIA resolve this stupid problem, or we must downgrade our VGAs and buy 6600 
, I played (drivers 67.02) the "Step into the liquid" movie & there was lagging, frame dropping and 100% CPU utilization.
, I played (drivers 67.02) the "Step into the liquid" movie & there was lagging, frame dropping and 100% CPU utilization.Just curious but is this something that is so serious that people would actually return the card over? To be quite honest I wasn't even really aware of the WMVHD until I started to deeply research my planned 6800 Ultra purchase. I understand being upset since we all expected hardware acceleration, but like I posted above at least my 5900 didn't perform any faster with WMVHD (Now the poor performance in DivX\DVD in early drivers rels was unacceptable). Granted this could definitely be due to the fact that my proc has the power to pull me through, but unless you have someone that is willing to trade for another card straight across, it seems like money would be better spent upgrading the proc than taking the hit to return the card and buy a different brand. Sure that isn't the ideal option, but it seems like that would give the best bang for the buck since you aren't going to be hurt by upgrading the proc. I understand that "Step Into Liquid" seems to be the worst for CPU util and dropped frames, are any of the other samples playable or do they all peg?
All this isn't saying that I wouldn't want a rebate from nVidia if they acknowledge the issue, but that seem unlikely since that would provide concrete evidence the messed up and possibly fuel lawsuits.
(Bare in mind though I definitely have pro nVidia position after being burned badly on the early Radeons, even though they are supposed to be light years ahead of that problem now. Basically I am extremely happy with my 6800 Ultras performance on everything else and even if WMVHD become the norm my proc can handle it.)
-Malichite
All this isn't saying that I wouldn't want a rebate from nVidia if they acknowledge the issue, but that seem unlikely since that would provide concrete evidence the messed up and possibly fuel lawsuits.
(Bare in mind though I definitely have pro nVidia position after being burned badly on the early Radeons, even though they are supposed to be light years ahead of that problem now. Basically I am extremely happy with my 6800 Ultras performance on everything else and even if WMVHD become the norm my proc can handle it.)
-Malichite
Originally posted by: RacerZ
Well, I didn't read all the 43 pages, but caught the essentials. Did nVIDIA resolve this stupid problem, or we must downgrade our VGAs and buy 6600
Welcome to the forums.
As far as I can tell (I haven't been following the thread lately either), the problem is still not resolved. We're constantly waiting for a driver "fix", the promised date of which keeps getting pushed back.
rbV5
Lifer
- Dec 10, 2000
- 12,632
- 0
- 0
A common misconception in this thread (and the community at large) is that this is a WMV HD issue, it is not. WMV HD playback is simply an easy test to see if the PVP is working at all. There are now higher resolution 1080p WMV HD demos that are more demanding than "Step into Liquid", but even it shows how it works even powerful rigs...just think of a 2 hour+ feature at near 90% CPU or more...stuttering movies are every bit a distracting/frustrating as a stuttering game. Not to mention encoding video or other format support...yes, its a big deal to some of us...and rightfully so.
Exactly, great post. This broken VPP has had implications with virtually all hardware video playback down the line. It appears that they had planned to implement a revolutionary new VPP and route all video tasks to it, since its broken, virtually all video playback no matter the type is offloaded onto the processor. The only exception being dvd hardware accel, but even that does not fuction as it should. Now, if you only watch the occasional video off the web, and mostly use the card to game, this isn't a terrible problem, but you will still be negatively affected. So, no question, the majority of users bought it for gaming only, and you know watch the occasional video or whatever on the web. But, is it to much to ask??, that these people understand that there are other users out there that might have slightly different habits than themselves?? Is it too much to ask that they see things from outside their own nearsighted and self involved viewpoint?? Apparently it is, because we who are disapointed in this broken feature set have been attacked more times than we can count in this very thread. We've even been told to shutup, and wait, because the "fix is on the way"
Its like this, sure the card does 3d fantastic, I've been playing D3 and HL2 out of my mind...but it was marketed as a revolutionary Video Playback device, with these wonderful HDTV capabilities....and Nvidia have just not delivered. In fact, these cards are inferior in every regard as far as video acceleration, to any modern graphics card in the last two years. So, If you bought the card like many have as an all around solution, gaming AND for video editing and encoding, or for HTPC and HDTV and DVD watching, the issue is just HUGE. The card is essentially inferior to any dx9 card released since the 9500/9700 series, and the 5600/5900 series. One would be better offf for video performance using any one of these cards, a 5700 or a 9500pro for example. Trust me, these 6800's are majorly fecked up. Now, the thing is, lots of users did buy the cards over the x800's for these Video features, and it cannot be denied, that these features, and this cards HDTV playback were highly marketed by Nvidia, and consumers were convinced this was a revolutionary feature. There was tremendous buzz around this card for anyone interested in HTPC or using it as a high quality dvd player for their HDTV.
So, the card is launched with non-working features.. And NVidia have basically lied and stalled and covered this up the best they could. They have changed their position and advertised features from when the card was released. They are using ambiguous language, and lawyer coached wording in place of the pre-release advertised features, and what is on the actual boxes of the cards we bought! This is totally unnacceptable, and we consumers(especially those concerned about the non-working missing features) have to hold them accountable. And we have all the right in the world to discuss such things on a technology discussion forum. I mean if you don't talk about such issues here, what in the hell can you talk about?
And Now, all these jokers who can't bare to hear any ill word spoken about nvidia, come in here and claim we are over-reacting, and need to shutup. They say we just have it out for Nvidia, ect... One clown in particular, told everyone thier opinions weren't valid, and they couldn't speculate, but he could. He said he knew for a fact the fix was coming in Nov, and anyone who disagreed with him he attacked. Then when that day came and went, he claimed he had whitepapers, and it was coming at the end of Nov. Again, anyone who dared take a different position, or question his info...he attacked. And now, the day has passed once again....and a new date is upon us Dec,20....and what is that clown saying? He's telling everyone to shutup untill Dec,20. UNBELIEVABLE> In another absurd bit of hipocracy...he now has the gall to chide users for flaming, when he, himself, has taken place in more attacks and flames in this thread than one could count. I'm not sure what the deal is, but apparently he has difficulty understanding that not everyone has unconditional love for their graphics card, and its maker. When one of the key components they buy the card for is completely flummoxed, and people try to get something done about it, and talk with other users who feel similar...he takes to lashing out and trying to silence and belittle their opinions. Maybe he should work for Nvidia's customer relations after all...lol.
Isn't it shown to be partially working now though since in early releases both DVD/DivX both resulted in very high utilizations, but now that has been resolved in latest drivers? I picked up the 6800 after I had the newer drivers, but looking at the XBit article it seems that this was indeed a problem before. It can't be completely broken if it is now able to accelerate other media can it? Thus currently the only thing affected by this right now is WMVHD, but obviously it won't accelerate new encoding schemes.
As for the comment about running at high CPU utilization, that really doesn't bother me since this also occurs during encoding or heavy gaming. Unless heat becomes an issue, I have no problem running at 90% for 4 hours since as long as it stay below 100% it won't ever stutter (also like I said my 5900 did the same thing.) I wasn't trying to belittle anyone concerns, but like I said it seems the best bang for the buck isn't to toss the card. That isn't saying you don't have the right to be concerned, but I don't think there is an ideal solution.
The one question that I still have is what other card offers a better alternative solution? I see many post about everything working great with other brand cards, yet I have also seen people complaining about their new X800XT-PE stuttering as well. Given that you are dissatisfied so greatly what is the best alternate choice, since I haven't been able to find a firm answer to that myself?
As for the comment about running at high CPU utilization, that really doesn't bother me since this also occurs during encoding or heavy gaming. Unless heat becomes an issue, I have no problem running at 90% for 4 hours since as long as it stay below 100% it won't ever stutter (also like I said my 5900 did the same thing.) I wasn't trying to belittle anyone concerns, but like I said it seems the best bang for the buck isn't to toss the card. That isn't saying you don't have the right to be concerned, but I don't think there is an ideal solution.
The one question that I still have is what other card offers a better alternative solution? I see many post about everything working great with other brand cards, yet I have also seen people complaining about their new X800XT-PE stuttering as well. Given that you are dissatisfied so greatly what is the best alternate choice, since I haven't been able to find a firm answer to that myself?
- Aug 22, 2001
- 31,754
- 31,717
- 146
I have not experienced any improvement in divx/xvid performance regardless of drivers and I've treid every alpha, beta, and official since june when I got my card. Could you link to testing that shows improvements? I in fact am back to the 61.77 because I got distortion with DVDs and choppy playback with some media files when@fullscreen using newer dets. The 66.93's are particularly bad.
As to alternate choices, I personally think the 800pro VIVO that reaches XTPE speeds is the best one. You get features the GT doesn't have, and with the right drivers it shows considerably better CPU usage with WMV HD, in the 50% range. Not to mention the gaming performance at that speed is also comparable depending on the title, and if it is DX or OGL of course.
The article I was specifically talking about it here: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl...ce6600gt-theory_6.html. Also note that I couldn't couldn't find any mention of which 6800GT they used in the test, but the link from their main page had this statement:
As for my setup I am using the 67.02 forceware and I have tested several DiVX and a couple of of DVDs (using WinDVD 4) and I consistently operate in the 10% region with those. It is important to note that I recieved my 6800 Ultra OC in the last week (got the $379 deal from Dell ). Since they noticed a difference with the newer 6800 PCI Express, it is possible that I have a newer revision that fixed this a bit.
Like I said before, if I were experiencing problem that you suggest I would be very upset. The only reason I am satisfied is that I am basically unaffected at this point.
-Malichite
As for my setup I am using the 67.02 forceware and I have tested several DiVX and a couple of of DVDs (using WinDVD 4) and I consistently operate in the 10% region with those. It is important to note that I recieved my 6800 Ultra OC in the last week (got the $379 deal from Dell
). Since they noticed a difference with the newer 6800 PCI Express, it is possible that I have a newer revision that fixed this a bit.Like I said before, if I were experiencing problem that you suggest I would be very upset. The only reason I am satisfied is that I am basically unaffected at this point.
-Malichite
its not accelerating other formats. The only thing thats working is dvd, and even that is not working as it should. As for other choices, I have mentioned in nearly every post that virtually anything is better at playing video than these 6800's. Your experience with the 5900 cpu utilization appears unique imo. go through this thread, and you will see people saying, before it worked, and when i upgraded, now things are miserable. My firsthand experience is in the same computer going from a 9500pro,9800np and a 9800pro..all played anything you threw at it flawless. Now, after upgrading to the 6800..any sort of high quality dmr9 video is a slideshow stutterfest, Including .wmv. And dvd hardware acceleration works to a degree, but doesn't appear to work nearly as it should. Basically when playing a dvd in hardware accel, that is still the only thing the comp can handle without the comp stuttering. Imo, all of these issues stem from the broken VPP. All cards without this "revolutionary new feature" don't have such video playback problems. So, to answer your question, anything besides a 6800 series is better. For the best of both, a 6600 series is the ticket. Better still, how about a working VPP on a 6800?
seriously though, what I'm gonna do is sell off this 6800std as soon as this gets resolved(since i don't think there is a chance in hell of nvidia delivering what they promised) and I will wait and see what next cards they announce...possibly a rehash of 6800 based with working vpp. I don't want to downgrade to the 6600gt though, because for gaming, this 6800std is about as low as i wanna go. Since this 6800 i have is unlocked to 16pipes via riva...It should keep its value nicely...i may even sell it for more than i paid. Anyways, I'm gonna sell it most likely, and go with the soonest 6800based(greater than a 6600)that has a working video processor.Or possibly, I will try to get PNY or Nvidia to take a trade in ect..
It is possible that I wasn't testing something correctly, but since I was aware of this issue I made sure I ran the Step Into Liquid on my 5900 128M oc/ed to ultra level last week before I put installed my new card. It is possible that I saw slightly better on the 5900, but the numbers averaged in the 80's like my new card. Guess it can be different with other systems, but like I said I didn't drop any frames with 5900 either, just high utilization.
As far a hardware accelerated playback of DiVX what is the best way to test this? If I disable hardware acceleration in WM9 it won't play full screen and if it is in hardware accelerated mode it runs full screen near 10% util with no stuttering.
Also notice that my card may be a newer revision since I doubt they have been in stock at Dell since the initial release. I have the newest BFG bios available on it, but is there a way to find the nVidia revision number? The only this I saw close to this was the long serial number printed on the PCB that ended in A02.
-Malichite
As far a hardware accelerated playback of DiVX what is the best way to test this? If I disable hardware acceleration in WM9 it won't play full screen and if it is in hardware accelerated mode it runs full screen near 10% util with no stuttering.
Also notice that my card may be a newer revision since I doubt they have been in stock at Dell since the initial release. I have the newest BFG bios available on it, but is there a way to find the nVidia revision number? The only this I saw close to this was the long serial number printed on the PCB that ended in A02.
-Malichite
In WMP options/performance/advanced, Are you running with overlay unchecked and use vmr checked and use high quality mode checked? This should expose the VPP weakness on your 6800le. It should offload everything onto the cpu, whereas the 5900 would have used the pixel shader pipelines to assist in vmr9 mode. Another possibility that would give you identicle results would be if you were running both in overlay mode...but then you would have gotten little stuttering either way. Overlay mode tends to work pretty well even on the 6800's. It just looks like garbage.
About the revision stufff, you may be right there. The 6800le's may even be different, but i think more likely, they are downclocked 6800's with broken pipelines. I'm not sure to tell the revision number ect..but someone might.
Oh yeah, about that not playing fullscreen thing...thats some weird bug or something...that shouldn't be there. You should be able to get it to work proper. I think i experienced not going full mode once or twice, but i fooled with settings, and it worked before long. I wasn't sure exactly what was causing it, but rest assured, its fixable(at least on mine) and you can run fullscreen hardware accel. for me, It think i tracked the issue to running in dual monitor mode, or something to do with how dual monitor was setup.
6800le? I have the BFG 6800 Ultra OC. Also yes I have tried both ways and it didn't make any difference I am still in the 10-12% utilization range.
Also I tested my 5900 with default settings so yes overlay was on, but I have a A64 3200+ w/1M cache and I never saw it stutter or drop a single frame.
-Malichite
Also I tested my 5900 with default settings so yes overlay was on, but I have a A64 3200+ w/1M cache and I never saw it stutter or drop a single frame.
-Malichite
ok, my bad, not sure why i thought you had an le. I guess i was thinking one of those dell 6800le's that they sell almost exclusively. Sorry about that.
About the overlay thing..yeah, thats not an apples to apples test then. Anyways, overlay actually plays fine for people even ones who cannot play in VMR9 mode. IE: VMR9 is a slideshow with virtually any video playback, and especially .wmvHD. And overlay plays fine, even .WMVHD> I can play step into liquid overlay mode without stutter...but it looks terrible. VMR9 looks fantastic but is a slideshow.
Yes but that was ONLY with regard to my 5900. I HAVE tested the WMVHD on my 6800 Ultra OC with and without VMR / Overlay / Hardware Acceleration and all give me the same result. The problem about full screen was only on a few DiVX clips I have, but it works fine on Step Into Liquid (1080 fullscreen). Since I saw no change in performance with/without hardware acceleration with Step Into Liquid that is why I assumed that NO acceleration was being done and my proc was pulling me through. In general I was justing making the comment it seems to make more sense to upgrade the processor than take the hit returning the card. If you can sell it for around the same as you paid and are unhappy with the card, then that sounds like a good solution.
-Malichite
-Malichite
yeah, i think you make a good point about the processor..but the cpu usage of a 6800 would still be disporportionatly high compared to any other modern card. Irregardless, you're right though, a cpu upgrade to something above where the stuttering occurs would somewhat solve it..but you're still gonna really high usage compared to anything else on the market. I still have to upgrade my processor anyways, so that is an option as well...in which case i would go ahead and go pciex so a pciex 6800 series with working VPP is a great option, and probably how I will end up. I just don't want to be forced into this because of nvidia not delivering...I'm not dying to drop a grand into my system at the moment...though i probably will. The cheapest option would be to sell or trade my 6800 for a 6600gt and live with the performance hit..so that is an option as well.
ponyo
Lifer
- Feb 14, 2002
- 19,688
- 2,811
- 126
It's still not fixed and likely never will be fixed. It's no better than my previous BFG 6800GT. I still get stutter and dropped frames when playing Step into Liquid. CPU utlilization is still around 98-100%. I got the same BFG 6800 Ultra OC from Dell deal about a week ago.
"The cheapest option would be to sell or trade my 6800 for a 6600gt and live with the performance hit..so that is an option as well."
Ok, but what about the fact, that we have paid for this option & we didn't got it. Maybe it sounds silly, but they owe us some kind of compensation. If nVidia don't fix this problem, then they lied us with their advertisment.
Ok, but what about the fact, that we have paid for this option & we didn't got it. Maybe it sounds silly, but they owe us some kind of compensation. If nVidia don't fix this problem, then they lied us with their advertisment.
you're preachin to the choir there...trust me. I agree 110% I'm just trying to figure out what to do for my best interest...because I don't think there is a chance in hell Nvidia is gonna come through with a real fix. So when they don't provide a solution, Its likely we're gonna have to ourselves. Our respective vendors,obviously, is another option. So, even if I am thinking of eventually unloading my 6800, if this thing doesn't get resolved, I'm gonna do my damnest to get something done about it, and let my voice be heard.
The cheapest option would be to get a working card. But frankly, anything below a 6800GT won't play HL2 & D3 & etc @ 16x12 w/eye candy on. THAT is why I got the 6800GT
However it pisses me off that I can't run a TV-rip video out to a TV and do hardly anything while it is playing w/out dropped frames. I'm serious, I can't watch my scrubs while doing anything but typing on AIM :|
However it pisses me off that I can't run a TV-rip video out to a TV and do hardly anything while it is playing w/out dropped frames. I'm serious, I can't watch my scrubs while doing anything but typing on AIM :|
So am I the only one that is having no problem with any of the other types? I doubt that is really the case since I see the same thing as everyone else on Step Into Liquid WMVHD demo. Just curious but I have the older 754 pin A64 3200+ with the 1M cache is that actually turning out to have some benefit playing these WMVHD since my rig is almost identical to Naustica's yet I float in the 80% region.
What resolution DiVX is everyone using to get stuttering output? Do you know another good demos to test the other media formats? Everything I have aside from WMVHD seems to place at very low utilization, but I can't believe I am unique so I must not be testing the right media samples.
-Malichite
What resolution DiVX is everyone using to get stuttering output? Do you know another good demos to test the other media formats? Everything I have aside from WMVHD seems to place at very low utilization, but I can't believe I am unique so I must not be testing the right media samples.
-Malichite
Originally posted by: fbrdphreak
The cheapest option would be to get a working card. But frankly, anything below a 6800GT won't play HL2 & D3 & etc @ 16x12 w/eye candy on. THAT is why I got the 6800GT
However it pisses me off that I can't run a TV-rip video out to a TV and do hardly anything while it is playing w/out dropped frames. I'm serious, I can't watch my scrubs while doing anything but typing on AIM :|
good post, that says it all. I am in the exact same position more or less. Its not just .wmv, the video capabilities of these $300,400, and 500 cards are just pitiful due to the broken VPP. Virtually any decent card can handle video better.
So if I were to get some kind of PCI add-in card, could that take over the decoding of videos? Its not a high priority for me, but would something like that allow me to keep a small vid window open and do other stuff @ the same time? Or run it out to a TV like I mentioned b4 w/out mad skipping? Some kind of MPEG decoder card or what? I'm not familiar with them so I don't know if they do what I'm looking for. Thx
they used to be around before video cards and cpu's were so powerful, but now they are sort of rendered moot. I do think there is one or two higher end add in cards though, stuff for high end home theater output that might be able to do that. I forget what they are called...one runs $200ish, and some people over at AVS use it for dvd output to projectors and hdtv's. I doubt you'd go that route though..lol. Hell, its a shame we're even talking about it. If nforce4 was out right now, thats probably which route I'd end up going, just build a whole new system... I guess as is now, I can wait a month or two, hopefully this will clear up, and if it doesn't...I can go nforce4, and to a pciX based with a working VPP>
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