GeForce 6 series video processor OFFICIAL THREAD

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: Trekari
I'm sure the BBB and the Attorney General of your state would be delighted to hear about this.

Seriously...those two entities are probably the best recourse we have right now to stuff this back in Nvidia's face for false advertising.

I'm hoping that I can find the time today to heard over to that office and take a look around.

My mouth hasn't ever gotten me into trouble before...nuh huh...never...honest...er...hehe.

Hey anything is worth a shot Just be careful when going to nVHQ. For some reason the lobby scene in the Matrix popped in my head

 

[rbV5]

The reply to your support request to eVGA.com is as follows:

Rick, we will take a look in to this and see if there will be any solution.
eVGATech



Question (10/11/2004 8:46:27 PM): To Whom it may concern; I'm am very concerned about the current and future functionality of the programmable video processor on my eVGA 6800 standard graphic card (http://www.nvidia.com/object/f...e_on-chip-video.html)I have awaited patiently for the appx 2 months I've owned this card for the functionality to be enabled from Nvidia drivers, now I am reading that there may be serious flaws with the 6800's PVP (http://www.anandtech.com/video...c.aspx?i=2238&p=2). I'd like to point out that it was one of the major feature advantages touted by Nvidia and its partnered board makers such as yourself, and a main reason I purchased the board to begin with.

I think at the very least, questions need to be asked, and you owe it to your customers to ask them and then get back ASAP with some information about exactly when and if it will ever be enabled and functioning, and exactly what you people plan on doing about it.

I am eagerly awaiting your reply and thoughts about what looks to be a potentially serious problem with the 6800 series of cards. Personally, right now, I feel that I've been duped by Nvidia, and I'm not one bit happy about it.

Rick Bolkan.
.

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: rbV5
The reply to your support request to eVGA.com is as follows:

Rick, we will take a look in to this and see if there will be any solution.
eVGATech



Question (10/11/2004 8:46:27 PM): To Whom it may concern; I'm am very concerned about the current and future functionality of the programmable video processor on my eVGA 6800 standard graphic card (http://www.nvidia.com/object/f...e_on-chip-video.html)I have awaited patiently for the appx 2 months I've owned this card for the functionality to be enabled from Nvidia drivers, now I am reading that there may be serious flaws with the 6800's PVP (http://www.anandtech.com/video...c.aspx?i=2238&p=2). I'd like to point out that it was one of the major feature advantages touted by Nvidia and its partnered board makers such as yourself, and a main reason I purchased the board to begin with.

I think at the very least, questions need to be asked, and you owe it to your customers to ask them and then get back ASAP with some information about exactly when and if it will ever be enabled and functioning, and exactly what you people plan on doing about it.

I am eagerly awaiting your reply and thoughts about what looks to be a potentially serious problem with the 6800 series of cards. Personally, right now, I feel that I've been duped by Nvidia, and I'm not one bit happy about it.

Rick Bolkan.
.

This is a beautiful chunk of consumer activism. Well said! :thumbsup:

 

[lordtyranus]

So what about that letter? If someone wants to get something started go for it.

 

[ponyo]

I'm selling my card. I think that's the simplest solution for me. I guess it's time for X800XT PE.

 

[Trekari]

Well I did happen to stop by the Nvidia Corporate office here in Ft. Collins and found a shocking image.

Three, to be precise.

I'll upload them to uploadit.org in a little bit...patience (I took pics with my digital camera).

Front door, not too shocking:
http://server5.uploadit.org/files/Trekari-IMG_0589.jpg

Inside Front Door...wtf?
http://server5.uploadit.org/files/Trekari-IMG_0590.jpg

Not too inviting, are they? I rang the doorbell and nobody bothered to answer despite hearing people inside.

Going up a nice flight of stairs that was to my right in the previous picture.
http://server5.uploadit.org/files/Trekari-IMG_0591.jpg

Aha, a security guard to the right branch of the stairs.
http://server5.uploadit.org/files/Trekari-IMG_0592.jpg

Behind him was another doorbell/keycard combination.

Finally our last photo of the illustrious and 'oh so helpful' Nvidia office here in town. A shot now of the left stairway.
http://server5.uploadit.org/files/Trekari-IMG_0593.jpg

As you can see, I got absolutely nowhere. None of these doors had an eyehole to see who was present (nor were there security cameras that I could make out). None of these doors had people polite enough to answer their doorbell, or even ASK who was ringing it.

In short...no wonder Nvidia is silent on issues all the time - they can't even staff Corporate offices that are customer-friendly.

 

[Trekari]

Also sent off a nice little email to theinquirer.net, figuring they might be able to help Nvidia stop being so silent and evasive on the issue.

Please bear with me, as numerous sites are starting to report on this issue and Nvidia is remaining silent, almost as if they are trying to hide from it.

The AGP 6800 video cards that Nvidia has made and shipped thus far (to a large extent) do not have the On-chip video processor functioning at all, despite being a feature listed on the 6800 tech specs and selling points during the then-paper launch.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/geforce6_techspecs.html

http://www.nvidia.com/object/feature_on-chip-video.html

All this card currently does is decode MPEG-2 - a *far* cry from what they list as features.

For verification on this:

http://www.anandtech.com/video...oc.aspx?i=2238&p=2

"The Video Processor (soon to receive a true marketing name) on the NV40 was somewhat broken, although it featured MPEG 2 decode acceleration. Apparently, support for WMV9 decode acceleration was not up to par with what NVIDIA had hoped for. As of the publication of this article, NVIDIA still has not answered our questions of whether or not there is any hardware encoding acceleration as was originally promised with NV40. So, the feature set of the Video Processor on NV40 (the GeForce 6800) was incomplete, only in its support for WMV9 acceleration (arguably the most important feature of it).

NVIDIA quietly fixed the problem in the 6600GT and since the 6200 is based on the 6600, the 6200 also features the "fixed" Video Processor with WMV9 decode acceleration support. After much explaining to NVIDIA that their credibility when it comes to the Video Processor is pretty much shot, they decided to pull the talk about the Video Processor from their launch of the 6200. As a result, you won't see any benchmarks of it here. NVIDIA is currently aiming to have us a functional driver and codec that will enable the Video Processor and take advantage of its capabilities in the next month or so; given that the feature has already been on cards (in one form or another) for 6 months now, we're just going to have to wait and see."

More:

http://www.hexus.net/content/r...04NTMmdXJsX3BhZ2U9MTM=

"The video processor on early NV40 and NV45 samples, both in retail and the reference boards shipped to reviewers, is broken. Fire up a HDTV video source using either GPU and watch CPU usage spike at near 100% utilisation. GPU-offload of video processing tasks, especially the decode assist needed for smooth playback of HDTV video, even on very fast CPUs, just isn't being performed. NVIDIA acknowledge that's the case with early NV40 (units that shouldn't have made it to retail) but insist it's working in retail samples and in NV45.

My own personal testing indicates otherwise, both with all the reference boards I have (the full gamut on both PCI Express and AGP) and any retail samples that pass by me for review. CPU usage is very high, the VP isn't working.

So testing with NV43 was always on the cards. The test? Playing back the original HDTV T2 trailer in Windows Media Player 9, along with playback of two transcoded versions (XviD and MPEG2) at their native resolutions. Software was used to monitor CPU usage for just under two minutes of playback over the three high-res streams and an average taken of the WMV9 original source results."

As you can see, the 6600GT, which is a cheaper, less-powerful card, has a fully functional VPU, while the flagship products do not. Nvidia has yet to respond to this and so I am writing you guys in hopes you can write about this - even just a blurb, to make Nvidia pay attention to the users whom they have falsely advertised 6800 featres to, yet failed to deliver at all and instead delivered with the 6600 cards.

If you are looking for forums with end-user experience:
http://forums.anandtech.com/me...8216&enterthread=y

http://forums.guru3d.com/showt...16&threadid=109886

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=37673

As you can see, this is a big issue that needs to be dealt with. I am hoping your site can be the one to get the ball rolling and making sure the **** hits the proper fans in the world of Nvidia to get this fixed.

False advertising could land them in a lawsuit...I'd rather they fix my defective card.

-Jason Cavanaugh

(Please don't publish me email address, however I am not against my name being used or providing whatever assistance I may)

 

[earthman]

It seems we live in the era of incomplete products, at least as far as computer hardware goes. Imagine buying a car that had the air conditioner "not enabled".

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: earthman
It seems we live in the era of incomplete products, at least as far as computer hardware goes. Imagine buying a car that had the air conditioner "not enabled".

After bragging that the AC was the best ever too. Well said.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: earthman
It seems we live in the era of incomplete products, at least as far as computer hardware goes. Imagine buying a car that had the air conditioner "not enabled".

LOL. Too true. Kind of like my then-cutting-edge MSI KT4V-L mobo, which had a box plastered with lots of stuff like "DDR400" (unsupported), "8x AGP" (has issues with some cards), USB2.0 (ok, they should have gotten that completely right, it wasn't new any more, but it still has compatibility issues), and best of all... the BIOS has a setting for FSB speeds, in 1Mhz increments, up to 280Mhz. (*not* DDR - so that would be theoretically equal to a DDR560 speed.) Yet the chipset only supports a PCI 1/5 divisor, limiting usable FSBs to 166Mhz max. Go figure. At least it doesn't have the cold-boot issues of later KT600-based boards. (I should have waited 2-3 months for stable NF2-based boards to come down the pipeline, but part of it was a gift, so I wasn't going to pass up the opportunity to upgrade. It has been mostly stable otherwise.)

 

[ponyo]

I hope this issue gets resolved favorably for the rest of you. I'm not holding my breath and am selling my card. PVP was one of the main selling point of the card for me.

 

[johnjacobjingleheimer]

I am very surprised to see that this topic has started to lose attention when it is a very serious issue. I am aware that forums on other sites have gotten very vocal about this issue but this is my favorite 3d info site and I think that a lot of folks would agree so we need to really garner the respect and attention of the site owners here. That is the only way that we hopefully recieve their support with the kind of voice they have to employ, the front page of the anandtech.com, unlike the muted voices here deep in the forums. I have sent emails to nvidia, the manufacturer of my card, leadtek and have also informed the seller of my card computerhq com(no advertising for them in here, i left out the .) of my displeasure and the need and demand for an answer and resolution to this most egregious afront to our buying rights that of recieving an item that is 100% what has been advertised. I am not citing instances like the nvidia 5800 where performance just didnt muster up to desired results, but where a highly touted feature set is completely absent and nonfunctioning. I am a long time supporter of both nvidia and leadtek and have always been very happy with the products made by these two very fine companies so it extremely difficult to get the kind of treatment on this matter that we have gotten so far.

I hope that those with the megaphonic voices of the review industry that you have the power to help us who make the business of 3d cards what it is today by buying the things that have an audience to talk about and get webhits galore from so that the ad revenue keeps rolling in and the free demo cards and hardware that we save our hard earned cash to purchase.

heres hoping,

johnjacobjingle
proud owner of an 80% functional and 80% glorious Leadtek A400GT @ 410/1100 57degress celsius and 80% happy

 

[bpt8056]

We need to generate pressure on nVidia to address this issue. We probably won't have much success dealing with them directly because they don't sell the chips to us directly. Instead we should constantly put pressure on nvidia partners such as BFG, MSI, Gainward, etc. They are the ones who will have to deal with us because they manufacture the cards and sell them through retail channels. Expressing our disatisfaction in volumes will persuade them to put pressure on nVidia because they have a direct relationship with them and I don't think nVidia wants to lose any partners. I don't think nVidia will ever admit this problem officially, but if they want to save face then they better fix this problem.

Another way to put pressure is to have sites like HardOCP, Xbitlabs, Toms Hardware, etc. create a media frenzy about the half-baked PVP and discredit nVidia for not coming up with a solution after 6 months. Again, this requires us to contact them and bring it to their attention. Anand is aware of this situation and we should get others involved as well.

I already contacted BFG about it, but I think I'm going to contact eVGA, MSI, Gainward and all the others just to pester them to do something. I encourage you all to do the same. Whether or not anything will be changed remains to be seen but we cannot stay quiet about this. Let's make some NOISE!!!

Contact List:

BFG

Gainward

MSI

XFX

ASUS

Chaintech USA

LeadTek

 

[rbV5]

eVGA

 

[bpt8056]

I contacted BFG again and they are seriously taking a look at this issue. I'll let you all know when I hear back from them.

 

[MDE]

I just sent this email to BFG's product manager:

Mr Ash,

Since I bought my first BFG card and got the opportunity to attend a LAN party at BFG's headquarters I've been a staunch believer in BFG's products and Nvidia. When the GeForce 6800 Series came out, I was excited enough to retire my FX 5900 to a secondary machine and buy a 6800GT OC at full retail price, something I rarely, if ever do, mainly because of the performance, but also because of the Programmable Video Processor that Nvidia hyped up so much.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/feature_on-chip-video.html

Now I've come to find out that the entire PVP is broken except for MPEG2 (which an ancient Pentium 3 could handle with ease). The Microsoft WMV HD "Step into Liquid" trailer hitches, drops frames, and stutters with the 6800GT on a 3.6GHz Pentium 4.

http://www.microsoft.com/windo...m/ContentShowcase.aspx

I hope that by pressuring you that Nvidia will get a clue about this and publicly acknowledge this issue and fix it. Honestly, I don't care if it's a BIOS flash, driver, or new card, I just want my $400's worth. There is a thread in the Anandtech Forums Video section about this issue.

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...AR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear

Thanks,
Bill Hrynko

 

[Trekari]

I called eVGA this morning and spoke with customer service, who forwarded my email to their Chief Engineer and his immediate supervisor.

They are going to figure out what is happening here and get back to me. My emails to them consisted of my own personal email, along with the above-listed email to theinquirer.net, so they should have all the main relevant links handy to see this is a huge issue.

 

[seemerun]

Originally posted by: Trekari
I called eVGA this morning and spoke with customer service, who forwarded my email to their Chief Engineer and his immediate supervisor.

They are going to figure out what is happening here and get back to me. My emails to them consisted of my own personal email, along with the above-listed email to theinquirer.net, so they should have all the main relevant links handy to see this is a huge issue.

That's great man i'm going to stay on PNY also

 

[waitupforgodot]

I too am a 6800 GT owner, and I was quite excited about the Video Processor. Now, I'm getting a little peeved. If a single major hardware site, such as Anandtech, puts even a short article on their front page about this issue, NVIDIA will have to release a public statement, as things spread quickly among hardware sites. (Think of the Hardocp - 3dMark05 row)
Please, will Anandtech make an issue of this?

 

[rbV5]

Originally posted by: waitupforgodot
I too am a 6800 GT owner, and I was quite excited about the Video Processor. Now, I'm getting a little peeved. If a single major hardware site, such as Anandtech, puts even a short article on their front page about this issue, NVIDIA will have to release a public statement, as things spread quickly among hardware sites. (Think of the Hardocp - 3dMark05 row)
Please, will Anandtech make an issue of this?

It seems to me that Anandtech is the ONLY site making an issue of it
Link. I really thought this would get more community reaction after its mention in the 6200/6600 review..doesn't seem to be getting picked up yet for some reason.....

 

[Chippy99]

I have just read through this thread but forgive me if I have missed what I am about to say:

I have two points to make:

1. AMD XP users: I think you will find that the video playback becomes *a lot* better if you enable fast writes. I think the CPU utilization drops a fair bit too. With fast writes disabled the Step into the Liquid video was extremely choppy and unplayable on my rig (xp @ 2400MHZ, 6800GT). Enable fast writes and it plays perfectly. The CPU utilization is still way too high, but at least it plays.

2. The law in each country varies, but generally speaking when you buy something your contract is with the company who sold it to you. Here in the UK certainly that is the case.

In Europe, the manufacture is not obliged to offer any warranty at all. The only obligation on the manufacture is that if they *do* chose offer a warranty, then it must be clear what their warranty is covering, and they must honour it. Its up to the manufacturer as to whether they want to offer any sort of warranty and if they do, what they want to warrant.

Here in the EU, each of us will have to look at the card manufacturer's (Asus, Aopen, BFG etc.) warranty terms very carefully to see what's covered if anything.

If we don't see anything helpful under the manufacturers warranty (or if there isn't one), then we must contact our vendor for redress. We have no rights to go after the manufacturer, nor nVidia :-(

Chip

 

[HardWarrior]

Thanks for the advice Chip, but I've always had FW's enabled and I still hover between 80-90% utilization while running Liguid. TBH, I'm not looking for a workaround. I want those 20 millions transistors to work as advertised or I want to be compensated. If we don't make a royal stink about this we're just inviting MOTS in the near future.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: HardWarrior
Thanks for the advice Chip, but I've always had FW's enabled and I still hover between 80-90% utilization while running Liguid. TBH, I'm not looking for a workaround. I want those 20 millions transistors to work as advertised or I want to be compensated. If we don't make a royal stink about this we're just inviting MOTS in the near future.

Well stated, and reflects my sentiments as well.

 

[THUGSROOK]

just for the sake of it ~ i tested this on my 5900.

50-55% cpu usage while running Liquid

 

[DAPUNISHER]

You have HT disabled right? Goes to show that raw mhz is the best way to get around poor playback, along with actually having some decoding capability on the FX the GT presently lacks. After looking at Anand's latest benchies the P4 is better for all thing WMV9 related too.