GeForce 6 series video processor OFFICIAL THREAD

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HardWarrior

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2004
4,400
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?Egg sucking dog?? Let me guess, this and the ?impatient ape? comment were meant as expressions of exasperation not misplaced patrician disgust. This place is in severe need of some fair-handed moderation. Nothing you post could possibly be worth the torrents of derision you CONSTANTLY rain down on anyone who won?t drink your Kool-Aid, Rollo.
 

MDE

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
13,199
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Take this whining and useless name calling to PMs or I'm sure someone will arrange a face to face meeting so one of you will tear the other to shreds, sparing us from this incessant bickering.
 

HardWarrior

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2004
4,400
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Originally posted by: MDE
Take this whining and useless name calling to PMs or I'm sure someone will arrange a face to face meeting so one of you will tear the other to shreds, sparing us from this incessant bickering.

Now this is a fine example of the type of "moderation" this forum doesn't need. "Everybody STFU, okay?" just doesn't cut it. The root cause of this sparring needs to be addressed by name and told to desist or be suspended/banned. I for one am SICK of seeing posters, including myself, being made sport of and/or vilified for doing what we're ALL free to do here, express opinions and concerns.

 

epking

Member
Jun 22, 2004
114
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As far as my "limited reasoning" goes, I have a BA/BS from a Big 10 college and a 137 IQ. This puts me among the people the people who have proven they can be trained and have some level of reasoning. Statistically speaking, it puts me in the top 25% of people in this country in terms of my level of education

I see then, oh, well that settles it. 137 IQ, and a undergrad degree. gosh, I?m just glad you didn?t really expose me as a simpleton, and really intellectually bully me around. I?ll consider myself fortunate, especially since I only have 6 posts and all.

Interestingly though, I have heard those with high IQ?s never have to brag about it, and don?t go around telling people how high their IQ is. Some might even say those who are insecure about their intellectual faculties would be exactly the sort who would tend seek out and to tell others their IQ level and relative superiority to the rest of the population.( A side note.. you seem to have a similar attitude at a micro level when it comes to members on this board. You see yourself as this superior wise old sage and old timer here, this identity is most frequently expressed as some industry insider?..Yet?LOL, mostly you spend your time trying to prove that this is so?LOL> see below, and about 10 other posts in this thread)

Trivialize my contributions to the board all you like, but answer me this Who has made more contribution to the board, the guy who spends some of his free time providing it with info that's not readily available when he can, or the guy who's showed up for 6 posts to whine about it like an egg sucking dog?

LOL, there you go again. I never said I was any significant contributer to the board, in fact , just the opposite, I said I could care less. You see most people are here to discuss hardware, not to prove their own self importance, or contributions..lol..or spout off about their industry connections. What I did claim though, was that YOU over and over and over again, aggrandized and talked up your contributions..LOL> In fact, I?ve said as much in every post?and laughably, you continue to prove it!! Here you go again, bringing up your self importance here and great contributions and wonderful insider information. Maybe you should just make a sig and put something down there?maybe something like ?I have a friend at Nvidia and he gives me secret information? remember, I was the first to post the Far Cry 3.0 benches and I had a 6800 sooner than just about anyone else managed too.? This would at least save you some time, because you see, you have managed to bring it up in just about every post. LOL Or maybe you could just have something like ?I am a very important contributer to the Anantech forums? yeah that might be good too. That would save you the trouble of trying to prove it in every post. Maybe you could even bribe one of the mods, to give you that sig tag??extra special member? or whatever it is. You seem to desperately want it from the campaign of self importance that you wage.

"Anything else in Rollo's sad little world, he took as an insult, and basically told everyone to shutup"

So I shouldn't have taken it as an insult when you called me a tool and ranted about my crime of posting what I know about nVidia for paragraphs? Who made you the AT thought police?

First off, my comments about you taking as an insult? referred to early in this discussion when you belittled a number of members, anyone who was upset at not getting what they had been promised in the 6800s. And you had the nerve to tell these people that they ought not to be speculating?.and it was frankly absurd and hypocritical, because all the while you were speculating in one way or the other.

As for whether you should have taken offense to me calling you a tool, well yes you should have because that?s exactly what I meant it as. I meant it as an insult. It was in response to your attacking others and name calling of others. So don?t act all high and mighty. Oh wait, what am I saying?.thats just about all you do here. Also, you keep fabricating this garbage and make believe that I take offense to you posting opinions or info from Nvidia. That?s completely untrue. I don?t take exception to any of it, and I actually consider what you say?I just don?t think what comes out of your mouth from your ?insider friend? who has a vested interest in making money for Nvidia is the Gospel Truth. Nor do I think that some snipit of supposed info is God?s gift to the forum from you Rollo. You see, You?re the only one who seems to feel that way. And if people even so much as question it, or have a differing opinion negative towards nvidia?you lash out. Again, this whole thing started by Rollo when he said in essence.. ?How DARE YOU GUYS SPECULATE AND QUESTION MY INFO>? OR TAKE A DIFFERENT POSITION FROM ME(which is, by the way,essentially the talking points at Nvidia?s PR dept LOL.) that is how all this started. As I said, Your behavior has been a case study for a Fanboy, and someone who thinks he?s much more important than others. Anyone know anybody like that? There?s a lot of that goin around these days.

BTW, do I think I?m important, or do I think highly of myself? In some instances, Yes. For example, I think highly enough of myself to put a clown like you, Rollo, back in your place. Earlier, You said something about me being petty or ?glad I got that off my chest.? Well, so am I. It?s been immensely satisfying dressing you down. Sometimes even the ?extra important members? (like you Rollo) need to get a good thrashing. Its been fun. BTW, I know you?ve read every word of this. Putting someone on the ignore list is often the last escape for someone who has taken a beating.(I bet you?ve taken quite a few too)

BTW, about your friend at Nvidia, how did he let you in? I thought one had to have at least a 140 IQ to be friends with someone at Nvidia? Oh well, I guess you got lucky. Thanks for sharing him with everyone. You?re a real saint.
 

epking

Member
Jun 22, 2004
114
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Originally posted by: MDE
Take this whining and useless name calling to PMs or I'm sure someone will arrange a face to face meeting so one of you will tear the other to shreds, sparing us from this incessant bickering.


did not see this last post. you're right, this argument has run its course(at least for me) anyways, i'm through arguing, but hardwarrior is right. The flames started because someone told everyone else to shut up because they dared to have a differing opinion from his, and his beloved company of course.
 

MDE

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
13,199
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Originally posted by: HardWarrior
Originally posted by: MDE
Take this whining and useless name calling to PMs or I'm sure someone will arrange a face to face meeting so one of you will tear the other to shreds, sparing us from this incessant bickering.

Now this is a fine example of the type of "moderation" this forum doesn't need. "Everybody STFU, okay?" just doesn't cut it. The root cause of this sparring needs to be addressed by name and told to desist or be suspended/banned. I for one am SICK of seeing posters, including myself, being made sport of and/or vilified for doing what we're ALL free to do here, express opinions and concerns.
Any quality posting you or Rollo have done has been watered down by your bickering about ridiculous nonsense. Anyways I'm just expressing my opinion and concern about this formerly useful thread being sh!t on.
 

HardWarrior

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2004
4,400
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Originally posted by: MDE
Originally posted by: HardWarrior
Originally posted by: MDE
Take this whining and useless name calling to PMs or I'm sure someone will arrange a face to face meeting so one of you will tear the other to shreds, sparing us from this incessant bickering.

Now this is a fine example of the type of "moderation" this forum doesn't need. "Everybody STFU, okay?" just doesn't cut it. The root cause of this sparring needs to be addressed by name and told to desist or be suspended/banned. I for one am SICK of seeing posters, including myself, being made sport of and/or vilified for doing what we're ALL free to do here, express opinions and concerns.
Any quality posting you or Rollo have done has been watered down by your bickering about ridiculous nonsense. Anyways I'm just expressing my opinion and concern about this formerly useful thread being sh!t on.

Look dude, you can view this any way you want. I couldn't care less, you aren't doing ANYTHING for me. But I know one thing for sure, you aren't elevating yourself by joining the "bickering" with phrases like "sh1t on." AGAIN, any of us should be able to post in an adult manner without fear of being set upon for partisan, self-serving reasons. If you don't see that as a worthy goal, more that worth ARGUING for, you're missing the point too.

I'm more than willing to let this thread drift back onto NV's behavior, or anything else VIDEO related. What I'm not game for is doing so under threat of being eviscerated by Rollo the SECOND I say something that doesn't meet HIS approval. I have every right to feel this way, just like you have every right to live the meatball moderator routine.

 

MDE

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
13,199
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If you don't like Rollo's posts (or even mine for that matter) them click this link and get something done about it. All I was trying to do was say that enough is enough and neither of you two are getting anywhere. I'm done feeding trolls for the night.
 

HardWarrior

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2004
4,400
23
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Originally posted by: MDE
If you don't like Rollo's posts (or even mine for that matter) them click this link and get something done about it. All I was trying to do was say that enough is enough and neither of you two are getting anywhere. I'm done feeding trolls for the night.

Yup, I was right. All that posting and you still don't have a clue.

 

LoneWolf15

Member
Feb 20, 2001
151
0
0
I am running Forceware 66.93 on my PNY Geforce 6800NU and getting 90-100% CPU usage the whole time while playing the 1080 copy of "Step Into Liquid", with the occasional stutter, running WMP 9. Here are my relevant hardware specs:

AMD Athlon 64 3000+ Winchester
MSI K8N Neo 2 Platinum mainboard
1GB (2x512MB) Kingston HyperX PC3200
PNY Verto Geforce 6800 128MB
DirectX 9.0c installed

I think you can see my system is not the bottleneck here. My CPU usage is better running MPEG-2 or MPEG-4 , though I'd still guess it to be higher than my previous Radeon 9700 (I'd have to put it back in to check though). I think it's safe to say that .WMV decode is broken for sure, I can't tell about MPEG-2/4. Note: My card has not even been in my hands for a week, so those that say that later revisions of 6800 chips have corrected any problems are either incorrect, or nVidia is still not offering us the option to enable the Video Processor, which is just as bad. If they advertise a feature, and then don't support it out of the box, that is false advertising. Clear and simple.

I'm torn. Card's gaming performance is great, but I don't just game. What I really want is an official statement from nVidia clarifying where they are at for Geforce 6xxx owners, what is currently supported, and what they guarantee WILL BE SUPPORTED in future driver releases.

P.S. To all P4 owners getting low CPU usage, turn Hyperthreading off and try running the test again. Hyperthreading compensates quite a bit and gives unrealistically low results. If you turn it off, you'll see the weakness in your card.
 

carage

Senior member
Sep 20, 2004
349
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Originally posted by: LoneWolf15


What I really want is an official statement from nVidia clarifying where they are at for Geforce 6xxx owners, what is currently supported, and what they guarantee WILL BE SUPPORTED in future driver releases.


I would like to expand to this statement, and what shall happen if they can't deliver what they guaranteed.
Otherwise broken promises are still broken promises.
I might not be bored enough to take them into court over this, but if someone wants to start a class action I might join.
 

LoneWolf15

Member
Feb 20, 2001
151
0
0
Originally posted by: bpt8056
Sorry to go off a little bit here, but I am currently making some progress to file a class action lawsuit. I was given the advice to file one against the manufacturer of my video card: BFG. The reason for this is to persuade them to file a lawsuit against nVidia. If they choose to fight nVidia, then we'll drop the lawsuit against BFG. Whether this tactic works or not, there will be a class action lawsuit against nVidia and we're hoping that this strategy will corner nVidia and force a solution sooner rather than later. In all honesty, a class action lawsuit can be dragged through the court system for years depending on how nVidia chooses to play this game. I haven't officially hire anyone yet, but if you know of someone who can get the job done please let me know. Thanks.

I think it would make sense to get everyone on board, then add all companies currently making 6800-class cards to it concurrently. Isn't it possible to name more than one company in a single suit?

I'm not a lawsuit-happy person, but I remember a similar situation like this when Iomega had the "click-of-death" problem with their Zip drives, and refused to acknowledge it. I also had a similar issue with one of the first Philips CD-writers. In the case of the Iomega lawsuit, they changed their business practices, and extended their warranties some. In the case of the Philips writers, we all got a new CD writer with a two-year warranty, plus some replacement media.

I don't want money. All I want is a company that acknowledges its mistakes, and makes good on them. Right now, nVidia should be saying "we screwed up, and we'd like to help fix the problem for everyone". Instead, their website blurbs still tout their Video Processor, and they're still selling the Geforce 68xx cards to people who don't know about this problem. Their press release is a stall tactic, and nobody is calling them on the carpet, so they can act as if there is no problem, and they can continue to sell the same flawed product.
 

rbV5

Lifer
Dec 10, 2000
12,632
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Its Dec 03, in less than 2 weeks, it will have been 8 months since the launch of NV40. At this point, the Programmable Video Processor is still not working at all.

All video encoding or decoding is done entirely by the CPU or assisted by DXVA just as the previous Nvidia cards. No drivers have been released to enable the PVP, and no timeline has been announced from Nvidia.

This thread concerns mostly WMV decoding, but make no mistake, all formats including MPEG encoding and decoding are affected.

Unfortunately, affected users comprise a large minority of the userbase. Complaints from users have resulted in flaming and discredit from the community itself (as seen in this and other threads in this and other forums) Hardware sites are slow to report and slower to respond. Even affected users appear to be ready to accept a much reduced level of functionality.

The fact that Nvidia is not out in front of this issue speakes volumes as to what to expect. They must smile everytime they read a thread like this to see how the community itself does most of their dirty work for them.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,587
10,225
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Originally posted by: MornNB
But really I don't think it's a major problem, the mpeg 2 acceleration works perfectly, and WMV HD decode can be handled by modern CPU's and produce the exact same result, it's silly to compare it to say if they made the GPU without T&L. A lack of T&L would reduce performance by about 400% for just about everything and the CPU could not handle the load for many games. This is also not comparable to having a car without working air conditioning. This is more like having a missing 5th gear, you can still drive the car just fine, but you have less fuel efficiency. And it still drives as fast as anything out there.
I really don't see how you can say that. As DAPUNISHER's other thread about WMV-HD and the 'Step Into Liquid' 1080i trailer shows, it brings most systems to their knees, and takes up nearly 80% of the CPU time on even high-end P4-based systems. I think the comparison between lack of hardware WMV-HD decode acceleration and lack of hardware T&L accelleration is completely apt here.

Those reporting less than 50% CPU utilization on their P4 systems with HT enabled - that's not a true reading, that's a side-effect of how CPU usage is calculated on HT systems. Proper CPU utilization calculations for this purpose have to be done with HT disabled.
 

imported_humey

Senior member
Nov 9, 2004
863
0
0
Hmm i didnt know it was 8months old tech now N40 i though nealry 6 months, like may 04.

I took since them till 3-4weeks ago to get this damn card available in UK ie chaintech 425/1100 Ultra, if it not work as it states on my nice big suitace sized box i want a refund or a next gen card if its gonna have agp not pci E as i really ideally not want new tech card near end of its life as of probs getting the 600U anywhere, and added if it not do what its meant to.

Btw i can play any wmv HD anyhow even the 19**x1080, but cpu is 55-100%.
 

HardWarrior

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2004
4,400
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Originally posted by: rbV5

The fact that Nvidia is not out in front of this issue speakes volumes as to what to expect. They must smile everytime they read a thread like this to see how the community itself does most of their dirty work for them.

Indeed. Well said.

 

redDragon128

Senior member
Sep 28, 2004
423
0
0
Originally posted by: HardWarrior
Originally posted by: rbV5

The fact that Nvidia is not out in front of this issue speakes volumes as to what to expect. They must smile everytime they read a thread like this to see how the community itself does most of their dirty work for them.

Indeed. Well said.
I do hope, though, that they understand that this community is losing weakening in numbers and a lot are losing faith in their products. Drivers going from excellent to sh***y (Detonators were nice). Now hardware prob that they are "solving" by giving us the silent treatment. If this keeps up, I'll probably just go for ATI next round.
 

HardWarrior

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2004
4,400
23
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Originally posted by: redDragon128
Originally posted by: HardWarrior
Originally posted by: rbV5

The fact that Nvidia is not out in front of this issue speakes volumes as to what to expect. They must smile everytime they read a thread like this to see how the community itself does most of their dirty work for them.

Indeed. Well said.
I do hope, though, that they understand that this community is losing weakening in numbers and a lot are losing faith in their products. Drivers going from excellent to sh***y (Detonators were nice). Now hardware prob that they are "solving" by giving us the silent treatment. If this keeps up, I'll probably just go for ATI next round.

NV's attitude is especially hard to understand when you consider that they just came off a less than sterling product cycle. Their PR department could alleviate a lot of anger by simply keeping us in the loop and being honest about the issue. Spouting tripe like "Well, PVP didn't meet our expectations, but we decided to ship it anyway! So there! (giggle)" just infuriates me. I'm considering a quick jump to ATI as well. My GT is a stunning gamer card, but I can't stand being taken advantage of.

 

bpt8056

Senior member
Jan 31, 2001
528
0
0
I just put up my GT for sale. I had to sell some things to pay off the holiday credit and this fiasco has made it easy to me to put this card on the market. I'm reverting back to the trusty Radeon 9600XT which surprisingly gave me no dropped frames in the SIL video but the CPU usage was still hovering at 99%. I honestly hope this issue is resolved for all of you GeForce 6 owners.

I updated the first post with information about the missing driver so people don't have to read the entire thread to see what's happening.
 

Icepick

Diamond Member
Nov 1, 2004
3,663
4
81
bpt8056, Can't say I blame you one bit. I'm beginning to feel like a chump for taking a chance on this 6800GT instead of an ATI. This is my first experience with NV and I'm dissapointed to see them taking such a lax attitude toward this. Hope this has a happy ending.
 

epking

Member
Jun 22, 2004
114
0
0
just put up my GT for sale. I had to sell some things to pay off the holiday credit and this fiasco has made it easy to me to put this card on the market. I'm reverting back to the trusty Radeon 9600XT which surprisingly gave me no dropped frames in the SIL video but the CPU usage was still hovering at 99%. I honestly hope this issue is resolved for all of you GeForce 6 owners.

yes, this is what is so terrible about this problem for people interested in the video features or HTPC. The .wmv hardware is completely broken, as in it just cripples even A64's. As mentioned my 9800pro played these 1920x1080i WinHD streams flawless, and you're having a similar issue with the 9600xt! this is just unforgivable for $300, $400 and $500 cards. Weren't some 6800u's sold at $600?.

Anyways, I bought this card specifically for its image quality in HTPC, 1920x1080i upscaled DVDs to my HDTV in particular. (I game as well, otherwise i would be fine with a working 6600 series) In deciding between this or the X800, i looked at the extra video encoding/decoding as a huge bonus...when i found out they are BROKEN, i was disheartened, but not too deterred, since image quality(in DVD playback) is still superior on the 6800 series. But I could not have imagined that it would mean positively PITIFUL performance for hardware video playback, particularly WMV.(pitiful as in performing worse than 2 year old 4200 series, or a 9600 for example) This is all just a disgrace, what makes it even worse is how Nvidia have handled themselves. However, This disgraceful coverup and refusal to provide an answer is par from the course these days. Sadly,we are growing accustomed to such tactics from NVidia. The whole, "you need to buy our NVdvd 4.0 codecs" to get it to work has brought them to a slimy new low though. To be fair, ATI are no saints either, I thought the whole Valve/bundled HL2 with the XT series was one of the more dishonest things i've seen in the industry...but at least they haven't had non-working features on their chipsets of this magnitude. (i know there has been a missing feature or two) Anyways, it is becoming quite a pattern though for Nvidia releases--rush chipset out, coverup the nonworking features later...promise driver fixes to hardware problems....LOL>>it does seem like one can bank on their being some sort of hardware flaw as they rush out these high tech chips. The 5800,5900, and now the 6800's all have had some serious unfixable design flaws or outright non-working issues after they hit the market. (i'm glad Rollo has me on ignore, otherwise that last bit might have sent him through the roof)
 

Chippy99

Member
Oct 20, 2004
30
0
0
Originally posted by: HardWarrior
Their (nVidias) PR department could alleviate a lot of anger by simply keeping us in the loop and being honest about the issue. Spouting tripe like "Well, PVP didn't meet our expectations, but we decided to ship it anyway! So there! (giggle)" just infuriates me.

Well possibly. On the other hand, I am sure they are being *extremely* careful with their words as they do not want to say anything that's likely to compromise their legal position. You can imagine how their being straight with us could end up costing them money. On the other hand you could argue that not being straight with us may well cost them customers. That may also be true. That's their call and they will have to live by the consequences of their actions. What's for sure is the former option is the decent one, and the latter is slimy and deceitful.

When I read Epking's post above, I really felt for his situation. People for whom HD video decoding (and encoding?) was an important purchasing decision criterion, and who bought NV40 on that basis, they have serious grounds to be really really pissed off.

Chip

 

HardWarrior

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2004
4,400
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Originally posted by: Chippy99

Well possibly. On the other hand, I am sure they are being *extremely* careful with their words as they do not want to say anything that's likely to compromise their legal position. You can imagine how their being straight with us could end up costing them money. On the other hand you could argue that not being straight with us may well cost them customers. That may also be true. That's their call and they will have to live by the consequences of their actions. What's for sure is the former option is the decent one, and the latter is slimy and deceitful.

It's all theoretical, Chip. Your guess as to their motives and mindset is as good as mine. Whether NV wants to hedge their bets on the legal front just isn't my concern. They could have avoided this debacle entirely by simply shipping a product that matched the specs they themselves indicated would be present. I have ZERO sympathy\patience for their current position being that it's self-induced.

Either they make this right or it will be a LONG time before I buy\recommend another NV video product. I sincerely hope that most of us, even those who bought NV40's primarily for their gaming prowess, are offended enough by this to feel the same way.

 

saechaka

Golden Member
Jun 19, 2003
1,162
0
0
it looks as though i'll be returning my bfg 6800oc which does softmod. i plan on using my comp. as a htpc and don't want to risk having it suck at that. i guess i'll see if nvidia fixes w/later cards or just get an ati card.