Geforce 4 vs Geforce 5

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Gamingphreek

Lifer
Mar 31, 2003
11,679
0
81
Originally posted by: Rollo
Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Originally posted by: Rollo
Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
The 4200 will eat it alive. The 5700 is an OK upgrade from a 4200. But your best bet if i had to choose from the FX series, is the 5900XT (or NU).

The 4200 is a DAMN FINE card. The FX series on the other hand is pretty pathetic :p

-Kevin

Ah Kev, the 5800NU is WAY faster/better than a Ti4600, let alone a 4200.

Yeah but good luck finding one. As for the 5900, well it leaves a lot to be desired in DX9. It would still beat a 9600Pro, however, when DX9 comes into factor it gets killed. YOu do have a valid point though.

I would still take an R3xx based component over an comparable NV3x component.

-Kevin

I probably would too dude, but for the more efficient AF. DX9 is going to put a 9600Pro on its knees! ;)

Yeah, but the FX series unfortunately incur a larger hit. But no doubt, the only cards that can really handle DX9 are the 9800s and up. The FX series just struggles. Sometimes they got around this by using shader replacement but not all the time.

No worries though, the 6 series was arguably better than the R4xx counterparts, and the 7 series is a dead heat, so we have good competition once again.

-Kevin
 

imhungry

Golden Member
Jul 30, 2005
1,740
0
0
Ah well either way, I'm working on getting one of a couple cards I've found.
Ti4200
9600pro
6200

JUST picked up an FX5600 for $3 from a friend. :). Thanks, everyone.
 

ddogg

Golden Member
May 4, 2005
1,864
361
136
Originally posted by: imhungry
Ah well either way, I'm working on getting one of a couple cards I've found.
Ti4200
9600pro
6200

JUST picked up an FX5600 for $3 from a friend. :). Thanks, everyone.

lol $3 bucks, great deal!!
 

imported_Kiwi

Golden Member
Jul 17, 2004
1,375
0
0
Originally posted by: imhungry
Ah well either way, I'm working on getting one of a couple cards I've found.
Ti4200
9600pro
6200

JUST picked up an FX5600 for $3 from a friend. :). Thanks, everyone.
While I'm not real certain where the GF 6200 fits into the game-play usability range, I do KNOW that the only FX's that were somewhat usable were the Ultras from the 5600 upward, including the 5700U, and not including any "nu" of lesser power than a FX 5800. And while I previously pointed out that the 5600U was more or less equivalent to a Radeon 9600 Pro, the 5600 nu was not playing in the same ballpark as the Radeon 9600 {"non-Pro"}. But for $3 you won't have enough loss to worry about when it's proven to be unsatisfactory.


:frown:

 

nemesismk2

Diamond Member
Sep 29, 2001
4,810
5
76
www.ultimatehardware.net
Originally posted by: imhungry
Which card would be better for running old generation games on a backup for a backup :)]) computer?

Specs are...
dimension 4600
intel 865g chipset
2.66 ghz P4
512 mb ram

My two main choices are...
the Ti4200
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications...tem-details.asp?EdpNo=495593&CatId=877 (OEM, it comes with the heatsink or not?)
and
the FX5500
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130197 .
(BUT, how would the evga compare to the chaintech http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814145076 , or is the Chaintech also 128-bit?)

I might go for the fx5700le as well, because I heard they are MONSTER overclockers...(over 100% OC on the cores in some cases).
If you can give a better suggestion for...under $80, go ahead.

The Geforce 5200 featured in THIS review is the 128bit version which is almost as fast as the Geforce 5500 because they both have very similar specs. I would avoid any of the Geforce FX range, the original Geforce4 Ti4600 can be had on Ebay cheaply and it's still a very good video card.
 

kurt454

Senior member
May 30, 2001
773
0
76
Originally posted by: Rollo
Originally posted by: kurt454
4200 all the way. The only FX series I would run is maybe a 5900.

That's not very helpful.

ANY 5800/5900 would be a HUGE step up from a 4200?

I believe that is what I said. Anything less than a 5800/5900, and I would use a Ti4200/4600.

 

nemesismk2

Diamond Member
Sep 29, 2001
4,810
5
76
www.ultimatehardware.net
Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Originally posted by: nemesismk2
Found this review of the Geforce4 Ti4200 vs Geforce FX 5500, the results are very surprising! ;o)

Geforce4 Ti4200 vs Geforce FX 5500

Not suprising. The 4200 was a highend card, 5500 was a mid-range from a horrible generation of cards. It is common knowledge that the FX series were kind of pitiful.

-Kevin

If you call the Geforce4 Ti4200 highend then what does that make the Geforce4 Ti4600? ;o)
 

Gamingphreek

Lifer
Mar 31, 2003
11,679
0
81
Originally posted by: nemesismk2
Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Originally posted by: nemesismk2
Found this review of the Geforce4 Ti4200 vs Geforce FX 5500, the results are very surprising! ;o)

Geforce4 Ti4200 vs Geforce FX 5500

Not suprising. The 4200 was a highend card, 5500 was a mid-range from a horrible generation of cards. It is common knowledge that the FX series were kind of pitiful.

-Kevin

If you call the Geforce4 Ti4200 highend then what does that make the Geforce4 Ti4600? ;o)

The exact same card with slightly lower clocks.

The 4200-4600 were the highend cards with the MX series being the mid and low end cards.

-Kevin
 

nemesismk2

Diamond Member
Sep 29, 2001
4,810
5
76
www.ultimatehardware.net
Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Originally posted by: nemesismk2
Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Originally posted by: nemesismk2
Found this review of the Geforce4 Ti4200 vs Geforce FX 5500, the results are very surprising! ;o)

Geforce4 Ti4200 vs Geforce FX 5500

Not suprising. The 4200 was a highend card, 5500 was a mid-range from a horrible generation of cards. It is common knowledge that the FX series were kind of pitiful.

-Kevin

If you call the Geforce4 Ti4200 highend then what does that make the Geforce4 Ti4600? ;o)

The exact same card with slightly lower clocks.

The 4200-4600 were the highend cards with the MX series being the mid and low end cards.

-Kevin

How dare you mention the pathetic Geforce4 MX (Nvidia's first huge mistake right before the absymal Geforce FX range and we will not even mention the Geforce MX 4000 oops) in the same breath as the vastly superior Geforce4 Ti. ;)
 

HexiumVII

Senior member
Dec 11, 2005
661
7
81
Ah the vernerable Ti4200. The only thing that kills is it not supporting BF2. I still build "gaming" systems with Ti4200/4600s i find. Hey, if Dell can use an Intel Extreme in an XPS, i can make "gaming" systems with Ti4200s!

How about someone make a chart. So far i have this, which is prob wrong, somone get it correct!

Budget cards

9700Pro>5900XT>5900>5900LE>5700U>4800/4600>9600XT>
9500Pro>9600Pro>5700>5700LE>4200>9550>5500>
 

imported_Kiwi

Golden Member
Jul 17, 2004
1,375
0
0
Well, dang! I missed seeing the dates, and ended up repeating myself! Oh, well!

Originally posted by: kurt454
4200 all the way. The only FX series I would run is maybe a 5900.
Actually, a Vanilla FX 5700 had pretty much the same Dx8 speed, and the FX 5600U beats both of those. It's a fact that the 4200's would OC pretty happily to Ti-4600 speeds, and that moves the comparison in FX's to the 5700U, I think, unless there was a 5700Gt/ XT that I missed hearing about.

I have a vanilla FX 5900 in one PC, and it's pretty slow with newer games, but does OK on Flight Sims. The Radeon 9700 Pro that someone mentioned is an older ATI card that holds its own pretty well against the middle performers of the newer cards, but is available for less than $100 when you can find a new one. I have recently acquired one of those. So far, I haven't really pushed it much.

(I already had it in November, but AFAIK, the PC it's in right now wasn't assembed yet.)


;)
 

nemesismk2

Diamond Member
Sep 29, 2001
4,810
5
76
www.ultimatehardware.net
Originally posted by: Kiwi
Well, dang! I missed seeing the dates, and ended up repeating myself! Oh, well!

Originally posted by: kurt454
4200 all the way. The only FX series I would run is maybe a 5900.
Actually, a Vanilla FX 5700 had pretty much the same Dx8 speed, and the FX 5600U beats both of those. It's a fact that the 4200's would OC pretty happily to Ti-4600 speeds, and that moves the comparison in FX's to the 5700U, I think, unless there was a 5700Gt/ XT that I missed hearing about.

I have a vanilla FX 5900 in one PC, and it's pretty slow with newer games, but does OK on Flight Sims. The Radeon 9700 Pro that someone mentioned is an older ATI card that holds its own pretty well against the middle performers of the newer cards, but is available for less than $100 when you can find a new one. I have recently acquired one of those. So far, I haven't really pushed it much.

(I already had it in November, but AFAIK, the PC it's in right now wasn't assembed yet.)


;)

I have a Powercolor Radeon 9700 Pro in one of my systems and it always surprises me how well it performs even with the latest games. :)
 

Matthias99

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2003
8,808
0
0
Originally posted by: HexiumVII
Ah the vernerable Ti4200. The only thing that kills is it not supporting BF2. I still build "gaming" systems with Ti4200/4600s i find. Hey, if Dell can use an Intel Extreme in an XPS, i can make "gaming" systems with Ti4200s!

How about someone make a chart. So far i have this, which is prob wrong, somone get it correct!

Budget cards

9700Pro>5900XT>5900>5900LE>5700U>4800/4600>9600XT>
9500Pro>9600Pro>5700>5700LE>4200>9550>5500>

Look over at THG or Digit-life for good roundups with all these cards in them. You have quite a few out of order.

ROUGHLY:

9700Pro

<small gap, bigger with DX9 or AA/AF enabled>

5900
5900XT (IIRC, the "XT" here is actually slower than the "vanilla")
5900LE (??? no clue what the 5900"LE" is compared to the 5900XT...)

<big performance drop>

9600XT / Ti4600 / Ti4800 (however, the GF4s can't do DX9 and die horribly with AA/AF)
9500Pro (yes, it's faster than the 9600Pro...)
9600Pro / 5700U (pretty close, IIRC)

<small performance drop>

5700 / Ti4200
R9550
5500
 

imported_Kiwi

Golden Member
Jul 17, 2004
1,375
0
0
Originally posted by: Matthias99

Look over at THG or Digit-life for good roundups with all these cards in them. You have quite a few out of order.
Is Digit-Life the site that has photos of walls covered with VGA cards? In English, but it's a site in some part of the of USSR? I keep losing that bookmark!
ROUGHLY:

9700Pro

<small gap, bigger with DX9 or AA/AF enabled>

5900
5900XT (IIRC, the "XT" here is actually slower than the "vanilla")
5900LE (??? no clue what the 5900"LE" is compared to the 5900XT...)

<big performance drop>

9600XT / Ti4600 / Ti4800 (however, the GF4s can't do DX9 and die horribly with AA/AF)
9500Pro (yes, it's faster than the 9600Pro...)
9600Pro / 5700U (pretty close, IIRC)

<small performance drop>

5700 / Ti4200
R9550
5500
I put a Leadtek FX 5500 into a build I put together last summer, tried a Radeon 9550 (128 Bit), and ended up with a GF 6200 128/128. I would have inserted another spacer with the last three lines in the listing (no argument with any other placements). The Radeon 9550 seen the most on storefront stores' shelves isn't labelled an "SE", but at 64 Bits of bandwidth, it might as well be. And I don't think it's 128 Bit version is that close to what a stock Ti-4200 does. But that 5500 performs nearly as badly as a 5200, which in turn is in the MX 4000's speed class!

I definitely would have had the spacer about performance drop setting that one off by itself in last place!


:frown:

 

imported_orcus

Junior Member
Jan 10, 2006
10
0
0
I JUST went from a X-Micro 128Mb Ti4200 4x Agp card 280/495 ram to a Radeon 256MB 9950 8x running at 4x(mobo limitation) at 470/440. I know its a bad choice. Its only barely a preformance increase. I f'ed up. BUT. I am getting about 700+ points more on 3D Mark 2001 SE with the 9550 at about 10000.

I can also run Unreal 2004 at 10X with some AA and AF, which the Ti4200 couldnt do. I had to set the Mipmap and Texture prefences with the nVidia drivers to preformance rather than quality and the same on the Radeon drivers- the image quality is a good bit better with the 9950 (becuase it can do DX9 ?). So I think you guys are wrong and the 9950 is better than the Ti4200. I guess it would be even better for me if I had a 8x AGP mobo. Price wise I have no idea whats the better deal. I would say that the difference is not much but noticeable.

But it is time for a new rig!
 

Gamingphreek

Lifer
Mar 31, 2003
11,679
0
81
Originally posted by: orcus
I JUST went from a X-Micro 128Mb Ti4200 4x Agp card 280/495 ram to a Radeon 256MB 9950 8x running at 4x(mobo limitation) at 470/440. I know its a bad choice. Its only barely a preformance increase. I f'ed up. BUT. I am getting about 700+ points more on 3D Mark 2001 SE with the 9550 at about 10000.

I can also run Unreal 2004 at 10X with some AA and AF, which the Ti4200 couldnt do. I had to set the Mipmap and Texture prefences with the nVidia drivers to preformance rather than quality and the same on the Radeon drivers- the image quality is a good bit better with the 9950 (becuase it can do DX9 ?). So I think you guys are wrong and the 9950 is better than the Ti4200. I guess it would be even better for me if I had a 8x AGP mobo. Price wise I have no idea whats the better deal. I would say that the difference is not much but noticeable.

But it is time for a new rig!

The 4200 will run all over that 9550 (I think that is what you are trying to say). The 9550 is horrible.

I honestly cant believe you are basing some of this off of 3dMark.

I think you are trying to find performance where there is none, because in no way shape or form should a 9550 be faster. A 9600XT is arguable slower than the 4200 when AA/AF isn't used.

-Kevin
 

Matthias99

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2003
8,808
0
0
Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Originally posted by: orcus
I JUST went from a X-Micro 128Mb Ti4200 4x Agp card 280/495 ram to a Radeon 256MB 9950 8x running at 4x(mobo limitation) at 470/440. I know its a bad choice. Its only barely a preformance increase. I f'ed up. BUT. I am getting about 700+ points more on 3D Mark 2001 SE with the 9550 at about 10000.

I can also run Unreal 2004 at 10X with some AA and AF, which the Ti4200 couldnt do. I had to set the Mipmap and Texture prefences with the nVidia drivers to preformance rather than quality and the same on the Radeon drivers- the image quality is a good bit better with the 9950 (becuase it can do DX9 ?). So I think you guys are wrong and the 9950 is better than the Ti4200. I guess it would be even better for me if I had a 8x AGP mobo. Price wise I have no idea whats the better deal. I would say that the difference is not much but noticeable.

But it is time for a new rig!

The 4200 will run all over that 9550 (I think that is what you are trying to say). The 9550 is horrible.

I honestly cant believe you are basing some of this off of 3dMark.

I think you are trying to find performance where there is none, because in no way shape or form should a 9550 be faster. A 9600XT is arguable slower than the 4200 when AA/AF isn't used.

-Kevin

A 64-bit 9550 (usually referred to as a 9550SE), yes. The 64-bit RADEON 9XXX cards are just horrible. Of course, so are the 64-bit FX5200s.

The 128-bit one is about the speed of a R9500... which is usually somewhat slower than the Ti4200 without AA/AF, and probably even or slightly ahead with AA/AF.

The 9600XT is usually even with the Ti4600 without AA/AF, and generally beats it soundly with AA/AF enabled. I'm not sure where you're getting this "a 9600XT is slower than a Ti4200" stuff from, but it's just not true.

THG numbers (old, but so are the cards...)

The Ti4600 barely beats it in a couple of the noAA/noAF benches, and loses pretty badly whenever AA/AF or pixel shaders are involved. The Ti4600 is a very solid card for DX8 and below games without AA/AF, though. I used one for a long time.

Also keep in mind that the Ti4200-8X and Ti4600-8X versions they are testing have slightly higher clocks than the original Ti4200 and Ti4600.

Results are mixed, but the R9500 definitely holds its own with the Ti4200, even beating it in a few cases (and all the time using AA/AF, but the 9500 isn't really fast enough to use it in most games). The 128-bit 9550, being about the same speed, should give similar results.

As for the GF5500... I've never used one, and the benches didn't look *that* bad... but it's certainly a poor choice if you have any other options besides an FX5200 or a R9200 (or a 9500/9550/9600SE).
 

imported_Kiwi

Golden Member
Jul 17, 2004
1,375
0
0
Originally posted by: orcus
I JUST went from a X-Micro 128Mb Ti4200 4x Agp card 280/495 ram to a Radeon 256MB 9550 8x running at 4x(mobo limitation) at 470/440.
I believe that's a bad comparison. For some reason, most Ti-4200's with more than 64 MB's of RAM used much slower RAM, and even a slower GPU clock than the original 4X card. The last 4200's were 8X and as noted already, slightly faster than the original.. The worst problem with the 9550's is the mislabelling of the 64-Bit ones.
I know its a bad choice. Its only barely a preformance increase. I f'ed up. BUT. I am getting about 700+ points more on 3D Mark 2001 SE with the 9550 at about 10000.

I can also run Unreal 2004 at 10X with some AA and AF, which the Ti4200 couldnt do. I had to set the Mipmap and Texture prefences with the nVidia drivers to preformance rather than quality and the same on the Radeon drivers- the image quality is a good bit better with the 9950 (becuase it can do DX9 ?). So I think you guys are wrong and the 9950 is better than the Ti4200. I guess it would be even better for me if I had a 8x AGP mobo. Price wise I have no idea whats the better deal. I would say that the difference is not much but noticeable.

But it is time for a new rig!
The historical basis for the popularity of the 4200's was the ease with which they OC'd. You paid the price for a high mid-level card, and could clock it up as fast as a card just under the max speed of the GF4 family, the Ti-4600, saving $90-100 (or more) of MSRP difference between the two.


:beer:
 

imported_orcus

Junior Member
Jan 10, 2006
10
0
0
Hey all. I could either put my ti4200 4x 128MB as hard ass I could overclock it, vs. my Radeon 9550 4X 265MB into my AGP slot. The one that works better esp. with AA and AF is the Radeon. I dont have a favorite toothpaste or underware, so do what you will.