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GE breakthrough, 100 DVD on one disc

I wish we had them now. Backups are a chore and tape drives are more expensive than they should be. At 10cent a GB, that is about $50 a disc, well worth it to back up 500GB.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04...uting/27disk.html?_r=1
General Electric says it has achieved a breakthrough in digital storage technology that will allow standard-size discs to hold the equivalent of 100 DVDs.

The storage advance, which G.E. is announcing on Monday, is just a laboratory success at this stage. The new technology must be made to work in products that can be mass-produced at affordable prices.

But optical storage experts and industry analysts who were told of the development said it held the promise of being a big step forward in digital storage with a wide range of potential uses in commercial, scientific and consumer markets.

?This could be the next generation of low-cost storage,? said Richard Doherty, an analyst at Envisioneering, a technology research firm.

The promising work by the G.E. researchers is in the field of holographic storage. Holography is an optical process that stores not only three-dimensional images like the ones placed on many credit cards for security purposes, but the 1?s and 0?s of digital data as well.

The data is encoded in light patterns that are stored in light-sensitive material. The holograms act like microscopic mirrors that refract light patterns when a laser shines on them, and so each hologram?s recorded data can then be retrieved and deciphered.

Holographic storage has the potential to pack data far more densely than conventional optical technology, used in DVDs and the newer, high-capacity Blu-ray discs, in which information is stored as a pattern of laser-etched marks across the surface of a disc. The potential of holographic technology has long been known. The first research papers were published in the early 1960s.

Many advances have been made over the years in the materials science, optics and applied physics needed to make holographic storage a practical, cost-effective technology. And this year, InPhase Technologies, a spinoff of Bell Labs of Alcatel-Lucent, plans to introduce a holographic storage system, using $18,000 machines and expensive discs, for specialized markets like video production and storing medical images.

To date, holographic storage has not been on a path to mainstream use. The G.E. development, however, could be that pioneering step, according to analysts and experts. The G.E. researchers have used a different approach than past efforts. It relies on smaller, less complex holograms ? a technique called microholographic storage.

A crucial challenge for the team, which has been working on this project since 2003, has been to find the materials and techniques so that smaller holograms reflect enough light for their data patterns to be detected and retrieved.

The recent breakthrough by the team, working at the G.E. lab in Niskayuna, N.Y., north of Albany, was a 200-fold increase in the reflective power of their holograms, putting them at the bottom range of light reflections readable by current Blu-ray machines.

?We?re in the ballpark,? said Brian Lawrence, the scientist who leads G.E.?s holographic storage program. ?We?ve crossed the threshold so we?re readable.?

In G.E.?s approach, the holograms are scattered across a disc in a way that is similar to the formats used in today?s CDs, conventional DVDs and Blu-ray discs. So a player that could read microholographic storage discs could also read CD, DVD and Blu-ray discs. But holographic discs, with the technology G.E. has attained, could hold 500 gigabytes of data. Blu-ray is available in 25-gigabyte and 50-gigabyte discs, and a standard DVD holds 5 gigabytes.

?If this can really be done, then G.E.?s work promises to be a huge advantage in commercializing holographic storage technology,? said Bert Hesselink, a professor at Stanford and an expert in the field.

The G.E. team plans to present its research data and lab results at an optical data storage conference in Orlando next month.

Yet, analysts say, the feasibility of G.E.?s technology remains unproved and the economics uncertain. ?It?s always well to remember that the most important technical specification in any storage device, however impressive the science behind it, is price,? said James N. Porter, an independent analyst of the storage market.

When Blu-ray was introduced in late 2006, a 25-gigabyte disc cost nearly $1 a gigabyte, though it is about half that now. G.E. expects that when they are introduced, perhaps in 2011 or 2012, holographic discs using its technology will be less than 10 cents a gigabyte ? and fall in the future.

?The price of storage per gigabyte is going to drop precipitously,? Mr. Lawrence said.

G.E. will first focus on selling the technology to commercial markets like movie studios, television networks, medical researchers and hospitals for holding data-intensive images like Hollywood films and brain scans. But selling to the broader corporate and consumer market is the larger goal.

To do that, G.E. will have to work with partners to license its holographic storage technology and expertise, and the company is already talking with major electronics and optical storage producers, said Bill Kernick, who leads G.E.?s technology sales unit. The holographic research was originally related to G.E.?s plastics business, which it sold two years ago to the Saudi Basic Industries Corporation for $11.6 billion.
 
I am kinda thinking optical media is dead. Even at $50 a disc they already lose. 500GB external drives are creeping right into that price segment as we speak. Don't forget HDD can be used over, and over, and over. These discs are useless compared to current HDDs.
 
Recordable DVD was over $30 per disc initially, and it was that low only because it was an evolution of already-mature CD-R technology. First "affordable" CD-R drives? $3,500. The first commercially available (affordable or not) CD recording devices weighed a few hundred pounds and cost over $50,000.

I'm not sure why you'd assume these things would stay $50 per disc for ever. Every inexpensive storage medium we have now "already losed" to whatever the cheapest commodity storage medium was at the time it became commercially available. Therefore, we should be stuck with the floppy disk and tape drive.
 
Tapestry media has had a 18K$ drive (size of a shuttle computer) and 180$ per disk, 300GB holodisk for some time now.

500GB holodisk for only 50$ per disk is a huge improvement.

however.
just a laboratory success at this stage

Aka, no product on the market, a variety of companies have demonstrated a variety of methods to get over a TB optical media in the LAB. making a PRODUCT out of it is something else entirely...

It will take some years, but it will arrive, there is no doubt about it, it is however a matter of cost and time.
 
It's not that i think they wont lower in price eventually, but demand will already be slim to none. Optical drives are increasingly becoming unnecessary.

Take for instance, A year from now we'll have consumer available HDDs hitting 2-3TB in the higher end range and 1TB externals should be retailing sub $70. If we didn't have an available storage medium like we do in this case then yeah, these things would really take off. The reason why CD's and even DVD's became such viable storage solutions is because there were no cost effective alternatives and internet speeds and software distribution were still quite lacking. They were convenient.

We now have consumer internet speeds that download at over 2.5 megabytes per second. We have $95 Internal HDD's that hold over 1.5TB worth of data.

I dont mean to be redundant, unless these things become super cheap, drives become super cheap and data transfer speeds are killer, this is unnecessary.
 
Yes hard drives are cheaper. But they are not nearly as portable. I could put a disc in an envelope and mail it, I can't do that with a drive.
 
Originally posted by: taltamir
just a laboratory success at this stage

Aka, no product on the market, a variety of companies have demonstrated a variety of methods to get over a TB optical media in the LAB. making a PRODUCT out of it is something else entirely...

It will take some years, but it will arrive, there is no doubt about it, it is however a matter of cost and time.

First thought in my mind when I read this as well.

Must be that time of the year again where everyone dusts off their decade old, but re-used annually, press releases regarding some new theoretical maximum data density on optical/tape/platter technology which only exists in the minds and computer simulations of a handful of laboratory scientists who aren't willing to speculate on when the product will be sold within the coming decade.

It never gets old. Oh wait, I meant the exact opposite of that.

Let's see, my Nostradamus program says we are due for a Z-ram refresh press release, some new ultra-mega perpendicular recording fathead widebody HDD press release, oh and let's not forget to throw in some spintronics quantum computing breakthrough's...all coming to a microcenter near you circa 2025.
 
you mean all coming to the onboard computer of your flying car circa 2010. 🙂.

I have to agree that optical media has become obsolete as a storage medium, internet bandwidth are massive, as archiving it is EXTREMELY bad, as it degrades, scratches, and has no redundancy (unlike a raid6 array, especially ZFS). HDD are actually getting CHEAPER per GB than optical media, which is utterly ridiculus... only advantage is that you can put it in an envelope and ship, but so what? It is easier to do an FTP transfer or some such... only use for it is to deal with luddites.

its more realistic to ship my grandparents overseas a DVD which I reencoded in PAL than it is to explain to them how to access my FTP server. Lots and lots of extra work for me, and it takes longer to ship... but it works. Ofcourse, if small enough I can just send it as an email attachment.
 
I'd love something to come out that lets us (me, I'm probably one of the last holdouts) to skip BluRay altogether. Fuggin bastages.
 
Originally posted by: magreen
The price of storage per gigabyte is going to drop precipitously,? Mr. Lawrence said.
Don't invest in gigabytes.

Time to open some naked-short positions on this wallstreet lackey "gigabytes".

Must be a financial firm to be so resoundingly loathed by the analysts. Let me guess, Cramer's going to hype it up tonight on Mad Money nonetheless.
 
Originally posted by: Scholzpdx
I am kinda thinking optical media is dead. Even at $50 a disc they already lose. 500GB external drives are creeping right into that price segment as we speak. Don't forget HDD can be used over, and over, and over. These discs are useless compared to current HDDs.

Except... optical media should (in theory) be able to survive an EMP. HDs will not. Woe to those that chose only magnetic media to back up their data.

 
Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
Originally posted by: Scholzpdx
I am kinda thinking optical media is dead. Even at $50 a disc they already lose. 500GB external drives are creeping right into that price segment as we speak. Don't forget HDD can be used over, and over, and over. These discs are useless compared to current HDDs.

Except... optical media should (in theory) be able to survive an EMP. HDs will not. Woe to those that chose only magnetic media to back up their data.

:shocked: If my stored data are within the critical radius of an EMP event so as to be negatively impacted then I'd certainly be more concerned about the fact that so too am I.

I've got little use for my data should it survive me.
 
You can leave the data for all them little cockroaches that survive. Give em 50 million years, they'll figure out how to use it. Optical FTW!!
 
Originally posted by: magreen
You can leave the data for all them little cockroaches that survive. Give em 50 million years, they'll figure out how to use it. Optical FTW!!

Wouldn't the media be degraded by then?
 
Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
Originally posted by: Scholzpdx
I am kinda thinking optical media is dead. Even at $50 a disc they already lose. 500GB external drives are creeping right into that price segment as we speak. Don't forget HDD can be used over, and over, and over. These discs are useless compared to current HDDs.

Except... optical media should (in theory) be able to survive an EMP. HDs will not. Woe to those that chose only magnetic media to back up their data.
EMP talk is verboten.

 
Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
Originally posted by: Scholzpdx
I am kinda thinking optical media is dead. Even at $50 a disc they already lose. 500GB external drives are creeping right into that price segment as we speak. Don't forget HDD can be used over, and over, and over. These discs are useless compared to current HDDs.

Except... optical media should (in theory) be able to survive an EMP. HDs will not. Woe to those that chose only magnetic media to back up their data.

in the case of an EMP attack, your computer is FRIED, and you have no water, electricity, and gas, and your car isn't working and you aren't getting any help so most likely you die...

In case you are in a bunker somewhere, then all your computers (and HDDs) are protected by faraday cages.
 
It's unlikely that these will be used for consumer-level movie or music distribution. A single 1080p movie does not require 500gb of storage space, and the studios aren't interested in distributing 100 -- or even 5 -- movies on a single disc. They can make more money selling a lot of low-capacity discs than they could from selling a single high-capacity disc with the same content. Besides, Blu-ray is still on the uptake. It'll be at least 10 years before it's replaced with a superior disc-based format.

But I'd like to have one of these for data storage and backup...
 
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