Gay Prop 8 protestors attack Christian Cross.

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Extelleron

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Extelleron

There are always going to be different rights for groups that are different; males and females do not have the same rights in every instance.

Marriage is a union between a man and a woman and thus intrinsically excludes gay couples. Homosexual couples may (in certain states) and should be able to enter into civil unions and live together, recognized by the government as a couple. That is the only right that is granted to anyone as a citizen, the right to be free and to be together with whom you choose. Marriage is not a right.

Marriage is in fact a right to all groups once you grant it to one. I suggest you read the US Supreme Court case of Loving v. Virginia and get back to us. The 14th amendment clearly states that all people have the right to equal protection under the law.

That references racial discrimination against marriage, and has nothing to with what I said.

The banning/discrimination against marriage (as defined as a recognized relationship between a man and a woman) by any racial group, ethnic group, religious group etc..... is absolutely against the constitution and is clearly wrong.

Homosexuals entering into marriage is another story. They want to change the meaning of marriage to be simply a relationship between two people and thus have the legal right to marriage. But if you accept marriage to be a relationship between a man and a woman, there is no legal right for gays to marry. Civil unions are another story.

Your argument is nothing but 'discrimination based on people born with a certain race is bad, but discriminaiton against people born with a certain orientation is good'.

It shows that you are not too rational You are a creature of your time, your environment, unable to understand the principles. You are a follower, a sheep, of the current mores.

What you would need to do to defend your discrimination is to show why - why, completely missing from your post - two loving adults who were born gay are 'second class citizens'.

Why, more than 'tradition', marriage has to only be one man and one woman (just as those who wanted to limitmarriage by race had to justify that discrimination).

Exactly. This is where the bigot goes blind. No why is necessary. For the bigot it's a given.

 

[Jschmuck2]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Extelleron

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Extelleron

There are always going to be different rights for groups that are different; males and females do not have the same rights in every instance.

Marriage is a union between a man and a woman and thus intrinsically excludes gay couples. Homosexual couples may (in certain states) and should be able to enter into civil unions and live together, recognized by the government as a couple. That is the only right that is granted to anyone as a citizen, the right to be free and to be together with whom you choose. Marriage is not a right.

Marriage is in fact a right to all groups once you grant it to one. I suggest you read the US Supreme Court case of Loving v. Virginia and get back to us. The 14th amendment clearly states that all people have the right to equal protection under the law.

That references racial discrimination against marriage, and has nothing to with what I said.

The banning/discrimination against marriage (as defined as a recognized relationship between a man and a woman) by any racial group, ethnic group, religious group etc..... is absolutely against the constitution and is clearly wrong.

Homosexuals entering into marriage is another story. They want to change the meaning of marriage to be simply a relationship between two people and thus have the legal right to marriage. But if you accept marriage to be a relationship between a man and a woman, there is no legal right for gays to marry. Civil unions are another story.

Your argument is nothing but 'discrimination based on people born with a certain race is bad, but discriminaiton against people born with a certain orientation is good'.

It shows that you are not too rational You are a creature of your time, your environment, unable to understand the principles. You are a follower, a sheep, of the current mores.

What you would need to do to defend your discrimination is to show why - why, completely missing from your post - two loving adults who were born gay are 'second class citizens'.

Why, more than 'tradition', marriage has to only be one man and one woman (just as those who wanted to limitmarriage by race had to justify that discrimination).

Well put. Would read again.

Who has the sig that says (I'm paraphrasing) "If you're going to be a bigot, at least have the balls to call yourself one."

 

[Corbett]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Corbett
This is just sickening. Protesting is one thing, but stealing a lady's Cross and destroying it while spitting on and intimidating her is a whole different issue.

Video 1
Video 2

Link FAIL! Fixing...FIXED

Sadly, you Christians dumped your hate on gays and made them crazy. What you see in the rage of gays is what you created. It's why you gay hating Christians are nothing but shit. You make the whole world stink.

*Sigh* I don't hate gays.

 

[ICRS]

I would have shed a tear if she was trampled to death. She is a disease on society and should be removed.

 

[Jschmuck2]

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Corbett
This is just sickening. Protesting is one thing, but stealing a lady's Cross and destroying it while spitting on and intimidating her is a whole different issue.

Video 1
Video 2

Link FAIL! Fixing...FIXED

Sadly, you Christians dumped your hate on gays and made them crazy. What you see in the rage of gays is what you created. It's why you gay hating Christians are nothing but shit. You make the whole world stink.

*Sigh* I don't hate gays.

I don't know your official position. What is it?

 

[Corbett]

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Corbett
This is just sickening. Protesting is one thing, but stealing a lady's Cross and destroying it while spitting on and intimidating her is a whole different issue.

Video 1
Video 2

Link FAIL! Fixing...FIXED

Sadly, you Christians dumped your hate on gays and made them crazy. What you see in the rage of gays is what you created. It's why you gay hating Christians are nothing but shit. You make the whole world stink.

*Sigh* I don't hate gays.

I don't know your official position. What is it?

Missionary. Yours?

 

[Jschmuck2]

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Corbett
This is just sickening. Protesting is one thing, but stealing a lady's Cross and destroying it while spitting on and intimidating her is a whole different issue.

Video 1
Video 2

Link FAIL! Fixing...FIXED

Sadly, you Christians dumped your hate on gays and made them crazy. What you see in the rage of gays is what you created. It's why you gay hating Christians are nothing but shit. You make the whole world stink.

*Sigh* I don't hate gays.

I don't know your official position. What is it?

Missionary. Yours?

I'm a bottom.

I meant on gay marriage.

 

[Corbett]

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Corbett
This is just sickening. Protesting is one thing, but stealing a lady's Cross and destroying it while spitting on and intimidating her is a whole different issue.

Video 1
Video 2

Link FAIL! Fixing...FIXED

Sadly, you Christians dumped your hate on gays and made them crazy. What you see in the rage of gays is what you created. It's why you gay hating Christians are nothing but shit. You make the whole world stink.

*Sigh* I don't hate gays.

I don't know your official position. What is it?

Missionary. Yours?

I'm a bottom.

I meant on gay marriage.

I'm against it. Though I don't live in Cali so I didn't vote on it.

 

[between]

 

[Corbett]

Originally posted by: between
Isolated incidents of poor behaviour occurred on both sides of proposition 8. For example,

"... a man in his 20s holding a "Yes on 8" sign crossed the street and attacked a 17-year-old girl opposing the proposition, knocking her down and striking her in the head, San Mateo police Lt. Mike Brunicardi said.

A man then ran up and spit in the girl's face, police said. Meanwhile, a passer-by attempted to help break up the altercation but was punched in the face by a 16-year-old boy, Brunicardi said..."

http://www.mercurynews.com/crime/ci_10905770


I don't think you can draw broad conclusions based on these isolated incidents.

Unfortunately for you, Sandorski has already set the precedent here that we need conclusive video evidence of the alleged attack or it never happened. If you are confused, please see THIS thread.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Corbett
This is just sickening. Protesting is one thing, but stealing a lady's Cross and destroying it while spitting on and intimidating her is a whole different issue.

Video 1
Video 2

Link FAIL! Fixing...FIXED

Sadly, you Christians dumped your hate on gays and made them crazy. What you see in the rage of gays is what you created. It's why you gay hating Christians are nothing but shit. You make the whole world stink.

*Sigh* I don't hate gays.

I don't hate you either. You aren't evil, it is your religion that is. You should not be allowed to practice it or get married and have any kids since you will just teach them the same mental disease. It's not that you are a Christian that is the problem. It's that you practice it. You should be stoned to death for any external expressions of your religion. It's not hate, its the danger you represent to society.

 

[shrumpage]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Extelleron

There are always going to be different rights for groups that are different; males and females do not have the same rights in every instance.

Marriage is a union between a man and a woman and thus intrinsically excludes gay couples. Homosexual couples may (in certain states) and should be able to enter into civil unions and live together, recognized by the government as a couple. That is the only right that is granted to anyone as a citizen, the right to be free and to be together with whom you choose. Marriage is not a right.

Marriage is in fact a right to all groups once you grant it to one. I suggest you read the US Supreme Court case of Loving v. Virginia and get back to us. The 14th amendment clearly states that all people have the right to equal protection under the law.

That is dishonest. There are no separate rights, everyone has the same rights equally applied them. That is fact.

The US has kept the basics of marriage much like the rest of the world has for the last few thousands of year, man and woman. With the only significant change in our country being the outlawing of multiple partners. It is a world wide culture institution that evolved from from basic concept of separate genders.

If people want same-sex marriage, then be honest about: they are asking for something new. A change to existing law that brings a significant change to a very long standing cultural institution. In our style of government changes to law, particular one that reflects a fundamental cultural shift, should be brought through the legislative process.


If this case or any similar reaches the level of the US supreme court, I believe that either:

1. USSC would defer to the constitution that marriage law is decided at the state level, not the federal.

or

2. The USSC has let laws based on the different genders stand, Selective Service is a prime example of this.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: shrumpage

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Extelleron

There are always going to be different rights for groups that are different; males and females do not have the same rights in every instance.

Marriage is a union between a man and a woman and thus intrinsically excludes gay couples. Homosexual couples may (in certain states) and should be able to enter into civil unions and live together, recognized by the government as a couple. That is the only right that is granted to anyone as a citizen, the right to be free and to be together with whom you choose. Marriage is not a right.

Marriage is in fact a right to all groups once you grant it to one. I suggest you read the US Supreme Court case of Loving v. Virginia and get back to us. The 14th amendment clearly states that all people have the right to equal protection under the law.

That is dishonest. There are no separate rights, everyone has the same rights equally applied them. That is fact.

The US has kept the basics of marriage much like the rest of the world has for the last few thousands of year, man and woman. With the only significant change in our country being the outlawing of multiple partners. It is a world wide culture institution that evolved from from basic concept of separate genders.

If people want same-sex marriage, then be honest about: they are asking for something new. A change to existing law that brings a significant change to a very long standing cultural institution. In our style of government changes to law, particular one that reflects a fundamental cultural shift, should be brought through the legislative process.


If this case or any similar reaches the level of the US supreme court, I believe that either:

1. USSC would defer to the constitution that marriage law is decided at the state level, not the federal.

or

2. The USSC has let laws based on the different genders stand, Selective Service is a prime example of this.

How in the world is my statement dishonest? My position has precedent from numerous state supreme courts and similar federal precedent in Loving v. Virginia.

Here's your problem, you are talking about preventing gays from marrying, but the only support you are bringing for your position is that we've done it that way in the past. That's not going to do much for your argument.

The USSC has restricted every right guaranteed in the bill of rights, what's your point? If the government can show sufficiently compelling interest in restricting one of those rights, it's out the window. While I think women should be drafted the same as men, I can also see how the USSC would find the case for gender specific military regulations a reasonable and compelling one.

I'm still waiting to hear the one for gay marriage. In fact, why don't you try and make it? Give me an argument for banning gay marriage that does not rely on religious prohibition, junk science, or bigotry. Show me empirical evidence for a negative effect on society from it. (feel free to use states/countries where it has been legalized for test cases) If you can show me a compelling reason to deny gays that right, I'll be there with you.

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: frostedflakes
Just out of curiosity, would people be opposed to abolishing any mention of marriage on the state level, and just refer to all unions (straight or gay) as civil unions? Of course the civil unions would have all the legal rights that marriage had, but they would just be called civil unions. Marriage or any spiritual unions can be handled by the churches and wouldn't be explicitly recognized by the state.

Seems like a win-win to me.

When a gay couple fills out a federal/state tax return, do they check "Married filing jointly", "Married filing separately", or "Single"?

 

[Red Dawn]

It's just an Idol

 

[Nemesis 1]

You haven't got a clue what your asking. SEX between same sex is a SICKNESS its not normal . Is what your asking is the people who aren't sick except the sickness in there midst.So that it can grow and prosper. Just so they can feel better about themselves . LOL The only way this will be resolved is threw villance. Sick christians killing even sicker none christians.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
You haven't got a clue what your asking. SEX between same sex is a SICKNESS its not normal . Is what your asking is the people who aren't sick except the sickness in there midst.So that it can grow and prosper. Just so they can feel better about themselves . LOL The only way this will be resolved is threw villance. Sick christians killing even sicker none christians.

Speaking of sickness, you might want to talk to a mental health professional.

 

[BudAshes]

.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Ya talk the talk but as your society and protectors fall apart because of these types of people.

We talk of human rights on the left and right.

But the left talks out both sides of its mouth at same time.

Gay marriage Ha were for it. Obama is for it but the coward wouldn't discuss it because it could hurt his chances of winning. I see NO change same old shit . just differant players. Every human has rights. OK your right.

Aborting babies . Now all of the sudden the left says babies have no rights. Even tho ITS ALIVE. You are some sick people.

When this system falls apart . And the government printing presses can no longer produce anything of value . AND the SS is nolonger in place to serve and protect.

Your in deep trouble . It well be back to the closet for ya were ya belong . Sick people thinking there OK is a laugh. If you guys think were coming out of this thing in a couple of years its laughable. They will try barcoding us . But thats when the right says enough.

Both instances I speak . Are about excepting responsibility for YOUR actions.

A mother has right to abort Baby. Father doesn't have right to stop aborting. This doesn't sound like equal rights to me. Having sex with 16 year old . Man goes to prison 16 yearold Girl had nothing to do withit. Even tho she was willing.
Being gay . First thing is to seek help and try and have your confused minds fixed. You will argue your minds are fine but the proof is in the pudding is it not. Your abby normals. What % of world population is Gay. .05% Seems to me your making alot of noise for such small numbers. If the world as a whole deems you as trouble makers its good bye and I hope you enjoy the company of your master.

 

[BudAshes]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Ya talk the talk but as your society and protectors fall apart because of these types of people.

We talk of human rights on the left and right.

But the left talks out both sides of its mouth at same time.

Gay marriage Ha were for it. Obama is for it but the coward wouldn't discuss it because it could hurt his chances of winning. I see NO change same old shit . just differant players. Every human has rights. OK your right.

Aborting babies . Now all of the sudden the left says babies have no rights. Even tho ITS ALIVE. You are some sick people.

When this system falls apart . And the government printing presses can no longer produce anything of value . AND the SS is nolonger in place to serve and protect.

Your in deep trouble . It well be back to the closet for ya were ya belong . Sick people thinking there OK is a laugh. If you guys think were coming out of this thing in a couple of years its laughable. They will try barcoding us . But thats when the right says enough.

So you covered gay marriage, abortion and the coming apocolypse in your rant! Maybe you should try having an original thought, then try typing it out in a way that people can actually understand. Work on that for a while and come back when you have that figured out.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: between
Isolated incidents of poor behaviour occurred on both sides of proposition 8. For example,

"... a man in his 20s holding a "Yes on 8" sign crossed the street and attacked a 17-year-old girl opposing the proposition, knocking her down and striking her in the head, San Mateo police Lt. Mike Brunicardi said.

A man then ran up and spit in the girl's face, police said. Meanwhile, a passer-by attempted to help break up the altercation but was punched in the face by a 16-year-old boy, Brunicardi said..."

http://www.mercurynews.com/crime/ci_10905770


I don't think you can draw broad conclusions based on these isolated incidents.

Unfortunately for you, Sandorski has already set the precedent here that we need conclusive video evidence of the alleged attack or it never happened. If you are confused, please see THIS thread.

LOLwut?

 

[frostedflakes]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Ya talk the talk but as your society and protectors fall apart because of these types of people.

We talk of human rights on the left and right.

But the left talks out both sides of its mouth at same time.

Gay marriage Ha were for it. Obama is for it but the coward wouldn't discuss it because it could hurt his chances of winning. I see NO change same old shit . just differant players. Every human has rights. OK your right.

Aborting babies . Now all of the sudden the left says babies have no rights. Even tho ITS ALIVE. You are some sick people.

When this system falls apart . And the government printing presses can no longer produce anything of value . AND the SS is nolonger in place to serve and protect.

Your in deep trouble . It well be back to the closet for ya were ya belong . Sick people thinking there OK is a laugh. If you guys think were coming out of this thing in a couple of years its laughable. They will try barcoding us . But thats when the right says enough.

Both instances I speak . Are about excepting responsibility for YOUR actions.

A mother has right to abort Baby. Father doesn't have right to stop aborting. This doesn't sound like equal rights to me. Having sex with 16 year old . Man goes to prison 16 yearold Girl had nothing to do withit. Even tho she was willing.
Being gay . First thing is to seek help and try and have your confused minds fixed. You will argue your minds are fine but the proof is in the pudding is it not. Your abby normals. What % of world population is Gay. .05% Seems to me your making alot of noise for such small numbers. If the world as a whole deems you as trouble makers its good bye and I hope you enjoy the company of your master.

Wow dude... just wow

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
You haven't got a clue what your asking. SEX between same sex is a SICKNESS its not normal . Is what your asking is the people who aren't sick except the sickness in there midst.So that it can grow and prosper. Just so they can feel better about themselves . LOL The only way this will be resolved is threw villance. Sick christians killing even sicker none christians.

What? I hope this is your 2nd or 3rd language.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Ya talk the talk but as your society and protectors fall apart because of these types of people.

We talk of human rights on the left and right.

But the left talks out both sides of its mouth at same time.

Gay marriage Ha were for it. Obama is for it but the coward wouldn't discuss it because it could hurt his chances of winning. I see NO change same old shit . just differant players. Every human has rights. OK your right.

Aborting babies . Now all of the sudden the left says babies have no rights. Even tho ITS ALIVE. You are some sick people.

When this system falls apart . And the government printing presses can no longer produce anything of value . AND the SS is nolonger in place to serve and protect.

Your in deep trouble . It well be back to the closet for ya were ya belong . Sick people thinking there OK is a laugh. If you guys think were coming out of this thing in a couple of years its laughable. They will try barcoding us . But thats when the right says enough.

Both instances I speak . Are about excepting responsibility for YOUR actions.

A mother has right to abort Baby. Father doesn't have right to stop aborting. This doesn't sound like equal rights to me. Having sex with 16 year old . Man goes to prison 16 yearold Girl had nothing to do withit. Even tho she was willing.
Being gay . First thing is to seek help and try and have your confused minds fixed. You will argue your minds are fine but the proof is in the pudding is it not. Your abby normals. What % of world population is Gay. .05% Seems to me your making alot of noise for such small numbers. If the world as a whole deems you as trouble makers its good bye and I hope you enjoy the company of your master.

Ok, now we see you're just a bigoted moronic tool.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Corbett
This is just sickening. Protesting is one thing, but stealing a lady's Cross and destroying it while spitting on and intimidating her is a whole different issue.

Video 1
Video 2

Link FAIL! Fixing...FIXED

Situation reversed, likely would have ended the same. Not that it is a justification, but people need to use some sense.