Gas cooking ranges

[Rubycon]

Whoa! Rubycons account has been hijacked again!
No, most Americans cook their turkey in the oven. A small, but growing percentage of them deep fry them, although that seems to be a bit of a fad that's wearing out.

Possibly because people do it wrong and cause fires?
Those propane burners are rated over 200,000 btu/hr! Without any kind of control the oil can reach ignition point in just a few minutes! Put oil in a sealed container on that and BOOM! Bleves are scary even in the safety videos.

 

[mugs]

I would only get a gas stove. It cost us $40 to have our propane company send a couple technicians out to tee a line off of our furnace to the stove.

Either your local government doesn't require permits for that sort of work, or they didn't bother to get a permit, or they absorbed part of the cost figuring they'd make it up by selling more propane.

With things that can explode, I like to get a permit.

 

[DrPizza]

That sounds more like the inspection gas line test in a new house. Exactly how are you going to test your new oven connection with 60psi of air?

Well, if you just installed the lines, then you shut off all the valves & pressure test the new lines - if you want to bother.

The propane company had their guy install the lines originally for our propane. When I put in the new line, I replaced all of the shoddy work that he did. In fact, it was his work that was one of the reasons that led to the remodeling job. He put the nut over the copper line, flared the copper, THEN drilled a hole through the house big enough for that nut to easily go through. And, he didn't make any attempt to seal off that hole. That led to a rodent penetrating the wall from the outside & using the insulation inside our oven as its home. Our old stove was consequently ruined. But, since I had a much longer run to make for the oven's new location, and I used gas tite instead of copper, I wasn't going to screw around with various fittings to make it work - I just replaced the line to the dryer. And later, I added in another line to the new propane hot water tank. (I now have two hot water tanks - one propane & one oil, with valves so I can control which is being used.)

 

[mugs]

Back to the advantage of an electric oven: I can cook a 20 pound turkey in my kitchen on an 80 degree day with no air conditioning in the house & that oven doesn't raise the temperature in the kitchen even one degree. You can't do that with a gas oven.

I can count the number of times I've cooked a turkey on an 80 degree day on zero hands.

My wife always complains that I use the gas oven to cook things that will fit in the electric toaster oven, but I keep telling her that it doesn't matter in the winter, the heat from the oven helps heat the house.

 

[KillerCharlie]

Okay, before this thread runs away too much, I have a few more questions (or clarification of some questions).

1) How much would it cost to put in a line to the range, assuming the house already has natural gas heating? (don't worry about the cost of the range itself)

2) What things could prohibit or hinder putting in a gas range?

Induction tops look interesting... I'm guessing in a few years prices will come down and they'll be much more common.

 

[MotF Bane]

<brag> My family owns two houses. </brag>

One has a gas system, the other uses electric. You can't just glance over to see if the electric is running, it's harder to gauge the temperature, and when you're done cooking, you need to move the pan off the surface. With gas, just shut off the burner, and you can let the pan sit there. Seems minor, but if the kitchen is full, it's convenient to leave the pan there. Also, the electric burners stay warm for a while longer, which can be a little dangerous if the kitchen is, again, busy.

 

[MotF Bane]

Possibly because people do it wrong and cause fires?
Those propane burners are rated over 200,000 btu/hr! Without any kind of control the oil can reach ignition point in just a few minutes! Put oil in a sealed container on that and BOOM! Bleves are scary even in the safety videos.

Skynet Emeritus?

 

[iGas]

Well, if you just installed the lines, then you shut off all the valves & pressure test the new lines - if you want to bother.

The propane company had their guy install the lines originally for our propane. When I put in the new line, I replaced all of the shoddy work that he did. In fact, it was his work that was one of the reasons that led to the remodeling job. He put the nut over the copper line, flared the copper, THEN drilled a hole through the house big enough for that nut to easily go through. And, he didn't make any attempt to seal off that hole. That led to a rodent penetrating the wall from the outside & using the insulation inside our oven as its home. Our old stove was consequently ruined. But, since I had a much longer run to make for the oven's new location, and I used gas tite instead of copper, I wasn't going to screw around with various fittings to make it work - I just replaced the line to the dryer. And later, I added in another line to the new propane hot water tank. (I now have two hot water tanks - one propane & one oil, with valves so I can control which is being used.)

Is it a 2 pound pressure service line?

If not a 2 pound line; you must recalculate the total drawn BTU & pressure lost to the longest run including bends & fitting lost.

2 pound line require a regulator on each appliance, before the appliance regulator.

 

[DrPizza]

Either your local government doesn't require permits for that sort of work, or they didn't bother to get a permit, or they absorbed part of the cost figuring they'd make it up by selling more propane.

With things that can explode, I like to get a permit.

Yep, if you wrap that piece of paper around the new gas line, it prevents it from exploding if it was installed incorrectly.

What you mean is that you're willing to pay your local government a small amount of money just to make you feel better. Any idiot (no offense meant igas) can install gas lines properly with a minimum of training or research. It's when homeowners try to cut corners that can lead to problems. All that piece of paper does is it assures your neighbors whose houses would be damaged during your death that you didn't cut corners.

Our old house had a meter indoors. I and the gas company wanted it moved outdoors. The guy working for them informed me that I had to hire a professional to run all new lines (black pipe), such that the switch could be made from one meter to the other, and the old meter then disconnected by valve & be able to be capped off. "Can't I do it myself?" He cautioned me against even trying.

When he was back & they were digging for the new line, "I see you took my advice & hired someone to do the job for you. That's one of the best jobs I've seen - couldn't have been <biggest plumbing company in the area>, it's much cleaner than they do - everything is perfectly parallel or perpendicular to all your joists. - who did you hire?" "Ummm, I did it."

 

[iGas]

Okay, before this thread runs away too much, I have a few more questions (or clarification of some questions).

1) How much would it cost to put in a line to the range, assuming the house already has natural gas heating? (don't worry about the cost of the range itself)

2) What things could prohibit or hinder putting in a gas range?

1. Depends on how long the run is, how difficult the run is, and your local service cost.

2. Cost can be high if it is not a 2 pound system, and the service pipe is at its max pressure out put. And depends on how difficult it is to cut in a path for ventilation duct.

 

[iGas]

Yep, if you wrap that piece of paper around the new gas line, it prevents it from exploding if it was installed incorrectly.

What you mean is that you're willing to pay your local government a small amount of money just to make you feel better. Any idiot (no offense meant igas) can install gas lines properly with a minimum of training or research. It's when homeowners try to cut corners that can lead to problems. All that piece of paper does is it assures your neighbors whose houses would be damaged during your death that you didn't cut corners.

Our old house had a meter indoors. I and the gas company wanted it moved outdoors. The guy working for them informed me that I had to hire a professional to run all new lines (black pipe), such that the switch could be made from one meter to the other, and the old meter then disconnected by valve & be able to be capped off. "Can't I do it myself?" He cautioned me against even trying.

When he was back & they were digging for the new line, "I see you took my advice & hired someone to do the job for you. That's one of the best jobs I've seen - couldn't have been <biggest plumbing company in the area>, it's much cleaner than they do - everything is perfectly parallel or perpendicular to all your joists. - who did you hire?" "Ummm, I did it."

No offense taken.

 

[Rubycon]

Yep, if you wrap that piece of paper around the new gas line, it prevents it from exploding if it was installed incorrectly.

What you mean is that you're willing to pay your local government a small amount of money just to make you feel better...

Yes but it also covers your butt in case something goes wrong.
This is rare but it could happen. Say your gas valve fails when the pilot blows out, thermocouple cools but gas keeps flowing and reaches a point of ignition across the floor and goes boom!

The insurance company is going to want to know who did the pipe fitting work. Even though your work had nothing to do with the explosion you cannot prove it and if they see that it was done without a permit or by a certified person they could deny claims holding you liable!

Like I said the chance is VERY remote but it does exist. Some folks sleep better at night knowing they have covered their butts. That is all I am saying.

 

[mugs]

Yep, if you wrap that piece of paper around the new gas line, it prevents it from exploding if it was installed incorrectly.

What you mean is that you're willing to pay your local government a small amount of money just to make you feel better.

No, I'm willing to have someone check the work because I know from experience that some contractors cut corners. Also, it's required by law.

Any idiot (no offense meant igas) can install gas lines properly with a minimum of training or research.

And yet you posted in this thread about someone who did work on your house that wouldn't have passed inspection. My permit cost less than your ruined oven.

 

[DrPizza]

No, I'm willing to have someone check the work because I know from experience that some contractors cut corners. Also, it's required by law.



And yet you posted in this thread about someone who did work on your house that wouldn't have passed inspection. My permit cost less than your ruined oven.

1. No permit required here.
2. The work most certainly would have passed inspection. The problem was that the hole through the house was bigger than the diameter of the line that ran through the hole. Not only was there an air leak, but any odors from the oven - things that dripped inside the oven between cleanings - attracted a rodent. From the point of entry into the house until the connection on the stove was all of 8 inches.

 

[Rubycon]

1. No permit required here.
2. The work most certainly would have passed inspection. The problem was that the hole through the house was bigger than the diameter of the line that ran through the hole. Not only was there an air leak, but any odors from the oven - things that dripped inside the oven between cleanings - attracted a rodent. From the point of entry into the house until the connection on the stove was all of 8 inches.

RTV would fix that up in a jiffy.

 

[0roo0roo]

The ones with fans are not very strong!
A much better (and quieter) way is to house a blower box up near the roof line, and run flex duct down to your hood (8" would be decent for a 1/3hp squirrel cage type blower). A multi speed or variable drive (motor master) could be used so you don't always have 1000 cfm getting sucked out which can be wasteful in the winter as you will need make up air for that!

american ones aren't strong.
asian style ones with very strong fans and no concern about noise or hiding itself away get the job done.

 

[Leros]

I like my gas stove alot more than my old electric stove. My only complaint is the lowest setting is still too hot for some things. The lowest I can get it to go is a bit too hot for simmering. I don't know what to do about that.

 

[Rubycon]

american ones aren't strong.
asian style ones with very strong fans and no concern about noise or hiding itself away get the job done.

Some people like the noise because it masks their noises while doing business.

 

[Squisher]

Okay, before this thread runs away too much, I have a few more questions (or clarification of some questions).

1) How much would it cost to put in a line to the range, assuming the house already has natural gas heating? (don't worry about the cost of the range itself)

2) What things could prohibit or hinder putting in a gas range?

Induction tops look interesting... I'm guessing in a few years prices will come down and they'll be much more common.

1) It cost me $200 for a 30 foot run.

2) Nothing.

btw-I have a Jen-Aire gas oven that has a 110v heating element at the top of the oven to even out the temp spikes.

 

[JC]

Induction tops look interesting... I'm guessing in a few years prices will come down and they'll be much more common.

Don't count on it. They have been around for quite a while, but have yet to escape 'niche product' status.

 

[Rubycon]

Don't count on it. They have been around for quite a while, but have yet to escape 'niche product' status.

You can always get a portable for about two hundred bucks!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqXbsGpBu5k

Once you go induction there is no going back!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUOChP5YyY0&

 

[sdifox]

You can always get a portable for about two hundred bucks!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqXbsGpBu5k

Once you go induction there is no going back!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUOChP5YyY0&

We used to use one of those for hot pot duty. Worked ok.

 

[Rubycon]

We used to use one of those for hot pot duty. Worked ok.

Well in the US your power (120V) is the biggest problem. 1.5kW is OK for basics. A CHEF is going to want much higher power which is not possible with 120V. Here everything is 230V which is great! Our hair dryers are much better, for example.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Well in the US your power (120V) is the biggest problem. 1.5kW is OK for basics. A CHEF is going to want much higher power which is not possible with 120V. Here everything is 230V which is great! Our hair dryers are much better, for example.

I can just see it now, 3600w blow dryers.

I would guess everything is lower amperage though in places where everything is 240, right? Or is 15 amps still the standard for a regular outlet?

 

[Rubycon]

I can just see it now, 3600w blow dryers.

I would guess everything is lower amperage though in places where everything is 240, right? Or is 15 amps still the standard for a regular outlet?

3.6kW is a bit much even for my long hair.
Standard cords are 9A. Most computer cords are 13A rated. As you know with double the volts that's twice the wattage.

Homes should be wired with three phase power so everything is 208V and the furnace/ac/range is 480V. Permanent lighting would be 277V.