Garth Ennis' The Boys on Amazon

[Skel]

I searched and couldn't find a thread on this, so if it's a repost my apologies.

I've high hopes for this series as the books were some of the most brilliantly written stuff ever put to page. It's a world where Superheroes were created and aren't the nicest of people. The Boys are the people that the government put in place to keep the superpowered people in check. I'm not sure how well this will translate into the screen, but I can't recommend the comic series enough.

Humble Bundle is doing a deal for the comic version of the series

 

[nakedfrog]

I thought the comic was fantastic myself.
I'm pretty hesitant about it based on this description though:

In a world where superheroes embrace the darker side of their massive celebrity and fame, The Boys revolves around a group of vigilantes known informally as “the boys,” who set out to take down corrupt superheroes with no more than blue-collar grit and a willingness to fight dirty.

To me, making them just vigilantes with blue-collar grit is kind of a fundamental shift (unless they're just trying to not give spoilers, which I could definitely understand)

 

[Thebobo]

I need something to watch now! Starts July 26 but looks interesting guess I'll wait.

 

[Skel]

 

[Aikouka]

So, I watched all of this yesterday, and I'll start off by admitting that I've never read the comics, but the series was... good overall. I'm not a huge fan of the ending as it was one of those endings where it's left wide open for another season. You know... to the point where you think there must be another episode, but nope... that was the last one. Fortunately, the show has been renewed for a second season already, which means we won't get the unfinished cliffhanger.

What I did like about the show is that it played with a few different aspects, and since they can be a little spoilery, I'll just tag them:

Spoiler

• Similar to what you saw in Dr. Manhattan in Watchmen, the "ultimate superhero" Homelander sheds his humanity and sees himself as something greater.
• Given the huge power disparity between Homelander and the others, it's pretty apparent that everyone that really knows him fears him.
• It takes a very cynical, corporate look at brand awareness and PR to the point where it's better to let everyone die on a plane than save a few that can admit that you failed.
• Even among the heroes, there are "lesser" ones.
• Speaking of lesser ones, I thought it was interesting how the show first showed The Deep as a complete asshole, but turned it around by showing how his own sense of inferiority and derision from others fueled his behavior. Part of me wonders if it's meant to be an amusing take on how much hate the Internet memes give to Aquaman.
• I thought it was odd how the end seems to suggest that Butcher's wife did in fact cheat on him with Homelander rather than get raped. Does this suggest that we were seeing Butcher's ideal reminiscing of the past? When things like this occur in shows, I wish that they'd leave little breadcrumbs for viewers to pick up on. In this case, it was just *wham* she cheated on him and had a baby with Homelander where the previous 7 episodes suggested that they had a happy, loving marriage.
• At times, I felt like characters fell into the writing trap of don't-explain-yourself-itis. For example, Hughie never tried to explain the predicament with Translucent to Annie. "If we let Translucent go, he would've told The Seven and they would've killed us. Justice wasn't in the cards!" Is it really that hard?

 

[Skel]

For me, this was a case of where reading (and loving) the source material was a bad thing. It really colored this series for me, as I knew how good it could be. It's a real pity that they decided to do the stupid Hollywood thing of getting the names and some plot points and then throwing everything else out. All of the major moments might have been done, but they were spun around in timing and happened in some cases to different people negating the payout those moments created. It just felt hollow of what it should have been. I look at shows like GoT and the Expanse and wonder why more shows don't trust the source material more. Though I guess some idiot that is working in entertainment can't claim to have put his mark/spin/version out there. At least you don't have to care at all about spoilers as the differences are so much that it's pointless to know anything on the books.

The other two people I watched it with hadn't seen anything on the Boys before and came in cold. Both of them weren't fans. They didn't hate it, but one said it felt muted. Like they wanted to do something but just couldn't figure out how to pull it off.

So, I watched all of this yesterday, and I'll start off by admitting that I've never read the comics, but the series was... good overall. I'm not a huge fan of the ending as it was one of those endings where it's left wide open for another season. You know... to the point where you think there must be another episode, but nope... that was the last one. Fortunately, the show has been renewed for a second season already, which means we won't get the unfinished cliffhanger.

What I did like about the show is that it played with a few different aspects, and since they can be a little spoilery, I'll just tag them:

Spoiler

• Similar to what you saw in Dr. Manhattan in Watchmen, the "ultimate superhero" Homelander sheds his humanity and sees himself as something greater.
• Given the huge power disparity between Homelander and the others, it's pretty apparent that everyone that really knows him fears him.
• It takes a very cynical, corporate look at brand awareness and PR to the point where it's better to let everyone die on a plane than save a few that can admit that you failed.
• Even among the heroes, there are "lesser" ones.
• Speaking of lesser ones, I thought it was interesting how the show first showed The Deep as a complete asshole, but turned it around by showing how his own sense of inferiority and derision from others fueled his behavior. Part of me wonders if it's meant to be an amusing take on how much hate the Internet memes give to Aquaman.
• I thought it was odd how the end seems to suggest that Butcher's wife did in fact cheat on him with Homelander rather than get raped. Does this suggest that we were seeing Butcher's ideal reminiscing of the past? When things like this occur in shows, I wish that they'd leave little breadcrumbs for viewers to pick up on. In this case, it was just *wham* she cheated on him and had a baby with Homelander where the previous 7 episodes suggested that they had a happy, loving marriage.
• At times, I felt like characters fell into the writing trap of don't-explain-yourself-itis. For example, Hughie never tried to explain the predicament with Translucent to Annie. "If we let Translucent go, he would've told The Seven and they would've killed us. Justice wasn't in the cards!" Is it really that hard?

Spoiler

We don't know if she was raped or not. Just because the child was born has little to do with how it was conceived. Homelander didn't know anything about having a child out there. It's very possible that Vought had this child and wanted to keep it under wraps so he wouldn't find out. Also the scientist guy said that his biggest mistake was not raising Homlander with a mother so he probably moved her off the map so as not to taint his experiment.

 

[rh71]

I'd rather watch more Michael Bay blow-em up BS than more superhero/super-powers BS.

 

[Aikouka]

Spoiler

We don't know if she was raped or not. Just because the child was born has little to do with how it was conceived. Homelander didn't know anything about having a child out there. It's very possible that Vought had this child and wanted to keep it under wraps so he wouldn't find out. Also the scientist guy said that his biggest mistake was not raising Homlander with a mother so he probably moved her off the map so as not to taint his experiment.

Spoiler

Yeah, I'm assuming that they lied to him about Mrs. Butcher so she could serve as the mother to Homelander Jr. that Homelander never had.

Oh, and if there's any interest in the source material, the comics are available in a Humble Bundle right now.

 

[GoodRevrnd]

Have not read the comics. I have 2 eps left. It's pretty damn good, but I liked the first ep a lot better because the whole concept of the world they laid out is so great. After that, while good, it seems to drag a little or something is just barely missing.

 

[Luna1968]

outstanding series. Elisabeth Shue ,,, drove me nuts on what else she played in, had to look it up and i was like OHHH YEAAA

 

[Mayne]

didn't read the source material but i did read his other stuff back in the day...on episode 3 right now and liking it.

 

[Ken g6]

I dunno, the trailer looks too violent for me. Is it as violent as it looks? "Muted" would be a strange word to describe what the trailer looks like.

 

[zinfamous]

I dunno, the trailer looks too violent for me. Is it as violent as it looks? "Muted" would be a strange word to describe what the trailer looks like.

yeah it's very violent, among other generally disturbing sequences.

I watched this over the weekend, knew nothing about it, but liked it quite a lot. I agree that it was somewhat ruined by the sudden cliffhanger--annoyingly so. Had thought that it was 10 episodes and noticed going into episode 8, oh that's it then. Other than the final minute, it was quite tight and honestly not-at-all cheap.

I felt like they went with the dark/evil/corporatist superhero thing without any kind of cheese or simple, one-dimensional characters.

 

[Mayne]

I'll watch anything when its not your familiar trope.... give Good Omens a shot...great 6 episode tv show.

 

[nakedfrog]

Ennis does seem to love him some violence.

 

[destrekor]

For me, this was a case of where reading (and loving) the source material was a bad thing. It really colored this series for me, as I knew how good it could be. It's a real pity that they decided to do the stupid Hollywood thing of getting the names and some plot points and then throwing everything else out. All of the major moments might have been done, but they were spun around in timing and happened in some cases to different people negating the payout those moments created. It just felt hollow of what it should have been. I look at shows like GoT and the Expanse and wonder why more shows don't trust the source material more. Though I guess some idiot that is working in entertainment can't claim to have put his mark/spin/version out there. At least you don't have to care at all about spoilers as the differences are so much that it's pointless to know anything on the books.

The other two people I watched it with hadn't seen anything on the Boys before and came in cold. Both of them weren't fans. They didn't hate it, but one said it felt muted. Like they wanted to do something but just couldn't figure out how to pull it off.

Yeah that's the challenge with adaptations - depending on the creative team involved, some might push for a more faithful adaptation out the gate but get pushed in a different direction by those who want to finance it. Studio execs want a win and frankly, as I'd never heard of The Boys before, execs may have suspected too faithful could have been alienating and risk a weaker market reception.

But don't forget that all kinds of small things change even in the adaptations that appear to be incredibly faithful. I haven't read GoT or The Expanse series (started GoT, put it down not even half way into the first book -- might give it another go once I know the series will get properly finished), but I had heard numerous instances of relatively big changes in both shows. I plan to read The Expanse at some point but I can't speak authoritatively on story changes but from what I've read a few things have changed. I don't think anything significant, like completely game changing, but depending on who you ask some plot detail here or there may have been significant for a character's arch but that got changed.

Want to see an adaptation that completely missed the mark, in every way possible? The Dark Tower. Honestly it wasn't bad, at least as a fan of the Stephen King series, because I still got to see some things brought to life, but yeah, it was certainly not a great movie. And worse they showed cut scenes at the end of the disc, and holy fuck those were exactly the kinds of scenes that needed to be included! That was a case of far too many players getting their hands on it, trying too hard to put their own mark on it as other hands departed the production. Partly expected when the project shifts production companies, directors, producers, writers, etc. At that point it became: how do we recoup this waste of an investment? Pisses me off because that's a series that would be epic to see done right with the original plan, a few movies and a few TV seasons/series.

Here's to hoping this latest Dune effort pays off, I want an epic film series!

 

[Aikouka]

I dunno, the trailer looks too violent for me. Is it as violent as it looks? "Muted" would be a strange word to describe what the trailer looks like.

Now, my opinion on what constitutes "too violent" may be different from yours, but I really don't think it's that bad. Is there some blood and gore? Yes. However, I think what makes it not seem that bad (to me) is that it almost has a bit of a cartoony feel to me. For example, Evil Dead has plenty of gore, but it's also kind of goofy at the same time.

Have not read the comics. I have 2 eps left. It's pretty damn good, but I liked the first ep a lot better because the whole concept of the world they laid out is so great. After that, while good, it seems to drag a little or something is just barely missing.

I think it's a fair point that the show has kind of a slow burn to it. It probably doesn't help that a lot of what you see just reaffirms what you've already established in your mind...

Spoiler

...that Homelander is a huge sociopathic asshole

...and it's not really until the end where everything comes together. Although, the slow burn just meant that I got more scenes with Annie!

 

[vi edit]

Now, my opinion on what constitutes "too violent" may be different from yours, but I really don't think it's that bad. Is there some blood and gore? Yes. However, I think what makes it not seem that bad (to me) is that it almost has a bit of a cartoony feel to me. For example, Evil Dead has plenty of gore, but it's also kind of goofy at the same time.

I think it's pretty safe to say you have a desensitized sense of violence. This approaches gore porn for the violence scale. The other part that is hard for some people is that they aren't used to their super hero movies to have this level of pure gratuitous violence.

 

[thestrangebrew1]

I've been planning on starting up this show but haven't had the time recently. I have no idea about the source material as I'd never heard of it before, but looking forward to checking out the series nonetheless.

 

[Aikouka]

I think it's pretty safe to say you have a desensitized sense of violence. This approaches gore porn for the violence scale. The other part that is hard for some people is that they aren't used to their super hero movies to have this level of pure gratuitous violence.

It seems like you're ignoring my point on the type of violence in the show. It's very easy to separate how some of the violence -- as gory as it may be -- is just plain ridiculous and over the top. I mean... a guy's head gets crushed because a girl sits on his face too hard. How is that not just some stupid, over-the-top scenario that makes you suspend all realism? On the other hand, when you're dealing with non-Supes is when you tend to see violence that does feel more realistic. For example, there's the "bathroom beatdown" scene closer to the end that is far harsher in tone.

 

[GoodRevrnd]

Plus the over the top supe violence kinda serves the show's commentary on supes.

 

[vi edit]

It seems like you're ignoring my point on the type of violence in the show. It's very easy to separate how some of the violence -- as gory as it may be -- is just plain ridiculous and over the top. I mean... a guy's head gets crushed because a girl sits on his face too hard. How is that not just some stupid, over-the-top scenario that makes you suspend all realism? On the other hand, when you're dealing with non-Supes is when you tend to see violence that does feel more realistic. For example, there's the "bathroom beatdown" scene closer to the end that is far harsher in tone.

I understand what you are saying. I simply just do not agree.

From IMDB:
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1190634/parentalguide?ref_=tt_stry_pg

Violence rating 110/115 people rate it as "Severe".

This is pure gore porn. Which is fine. But fair warning to those that weren't sure what they were getting into.

 

[thestrangebrew1]

I just finished the first 2 episodes and I'm hooked. So far some pretty good acting, the music is on point, and the plot is different. Looking forward to finishing it up in the next few days.

 

[Skel]

Yeah that's the challenge with adaptations - depending on the creative team involved, some might push for a more faithful adaptation out the gate but get pushed in a different direction by those who want to finance it. Studio execs want a win and frankly, as I'd never heard of The Boys before, execs may have suspected too faithful could have been alienating and risk a weaker market reception.

But don't forget that all kinds of small things change even in the adaptations that appear to be incredibly faithful. I haven't read GoT or The Expanse series (started GoT, put it down not even half way into the first book -- might give it another go once I know the series will get properly finished), but I had heard numerous instances of relatively big changes in both shows. I plan to read The Expanse at some point but I can't speak authoritatively on story changes but from what I've read a few things have changed. I don't think anything significant, like completely game changing, but depending on who you ask some plot detail here or there may have been significant for a character's arch but that got changed.

Want to see an adaptation that completely missed the mark, in every way possible? The Dark Tower. Honestly it wasn't bad, at least as a fan of the Stephen King series, because I still got to see some things brought to life, but yeah, it was certainly not a great movie. And worse they showed cut scenes at the end of the disc, and holy fuck those were exactly the kinds of scenes that needed to be included! That was a case of far too many players getting their hands on it, trying too hard to put their own mark on it as other hands departed the production. Partly expected when the project shifts production companies, directors, producers, writers, etc. At that point it became: how do we recoup this waste of an investment? Pisses me off because that's a series that would be epic to see done right with the original plan, a few movies and a few TV seasons/series.

Here's to hoping this latest Dune effort pays off, I want an epic film series!

Oddly a lot of the really concerning stuff was in the series. There was a lot more that they didn't do, but it was all along the same lines. I was expecting them to trim here and there, just wasn't expecting the wholesale revamp of the entire thing. I did attempt to just let it be it's own thing after episode 2, but I found myself with a ton of questions that weren't answered.

Spoiler: Spoilers include some book stuff

How did Butcher ever think he was going to be able to stand up to any supe without powers. They didn't even bother to explain how they all survived when Mallory's kids were killed. In the books there was a cease fire between the Seven and the Boys because while the Seven could wipe out the Boys (mostly Homelander) with little issue the Boys had enough dirt on them to ruin their lives. In this world Lamplighter just killed Mallory's grandkids and that was that.

Why have MM if you don't give him the powers that go with the name? In the show version he's just a dude.

This is just the start of the questions that happened in my head.

It's funny that you mention The Dark Tower. I've been using that as an example of something that took the core concept and some points and threw everything else out. This was exactly like that. It's not to say that this series was bad, most people I know liked it well enough. They've all agreed it was missing something in the story or execution of it. All in all, while not a bad distraction. It's another turn your brain off and just go with it vs the well thought out and executed book version. Which does have flaws, just no where near the level of the show.

If people like the show, I'm far from the one to tell them they shouldn't. I just don't give the show any passes.

 

[Luna1968]

good god, that gill scene with Deep, creeped me the fuck out.