Gaming: X4 965 BE or I5/I7?

[HeXen]

First, would an upgrade to quad X4/I5/I7 be noticable for me? I want best gaming power to cost ratio BUT if its not much improvement over current i wont bother. I'm looking heavily at the X4 965 black edition but not sure how they compare to Intel's plus their hyperthreading. Plus intel is swapping to 32nm soon.

My current setup:
E8400 dual core/4 gig ddr2/GTX 280

 

[Bigun08]

The intels will bench a bit higher but as for cost the AMD 965 will be the way to go.. You can get an AMD 965 set up for 500 bux.. the intel would be at least 100 bux more for and I7 setup

 

[HeXen]

the X4 965 is $179 at newegg.
I7 920 is $288.

In games, both are very comparable according to Anandtechs benchies. BUT I7920 has 8 threads and QPI, turbo boost. I'm mostly worried about the future, having 8 threads may come in handy in games later this year or next, I just dont know how significantly. Maybe that 100 bucks more will be worth it, think?

 

[borisvodofsky]

the X4 965 is $179 at newegg.
I7 920 is $288.

In games, both are very comparable according to Anandtechs benchies. BUT I7920 has 8 threads and QPI, turbo boost. I'm mostly worried about the future, having 8 threads may come in handy in games later this year or next, I just dont know how significantly. Maybe that 100 bucks more will be worth it, think?

Threaded apps has just VERY recently caught on with the "Dual core", You really think 8 threads will come in handy that quickly?? Prepare to wait for another 4 years before that happens.

For comparison
I still rock a opteron 144 at the moment, single core 2.9ghz socket 939. paired with 4870, Yea,, i get bottled sure, but it still Works FINEe, so i'm not getting 100fps,, i get rounddd 60. not such a big deal.

 

[soccerballtux]

the X4 965 is $179 at newegg.
I7 920 is $288.

In games, both are very comparable according to Anandtechs benchies. BUT I7920 has 8 threads and QPI, turbo boost. I'm mostly worried about the future, having 8 threads may come in handy in games later this year or next, I just dont know how significantly. Maybe that 100 bucks more will be worth it, think?

the motherboards cost WAY more for Intel to get the same features you can get on an AMD board.

 

[nonameo]

Personally I would go for the i series setup. If you don't have the money for the i series setup, save your money until you can get it.


edit: the i5 750 is nice for the price. However, I am not sure about 1156 as an upgrade path. I don't think it will be getting hex cores, and there's no telling what kinds of quads will be coming for it. However, the i5 750 should give you enough performance for quite some time. It should outperform the 965BE in most things.

 

[WaitingForNehalem]

Phenom II doesn't compare to the Intel i series.

 

[soccerballtux]

Phenom II doesn't compare to the Intel i series.

the quads trounce the i3s

 

[Jovec]

Reality check.

Either the Phenom 2 x4 or Core i5/7 is plenty for gaming. Go with the one that lets you get more GPU for your budget, or a bigger/better/dual monitor, or better speakers/headphones, or aftermarket CPU cooler, etc. Or pocket the savings.

If money is no object, then the i5/7 are faster, but the Phenom 2's IMC does place it ahead of C2Qs in gaming, especially with a nice Northbridge OC.

HT and gaming - don't expect too much. 4 real cores is plenty for gaming for a long time.

 

[nonameo]

Reality check.

Either the Phenom 2 x4 or Core i5/7 is plenty for gaming. Go with the one that let's you get more GPU for your budget, or a bigger/better/dual monitor, or better speakers/headphones, or aftermarket CPU cooler, etc. Or pocket the savings.

If money is no object, then the i5/7 are faster, but the Phenom 2's IMC does place it ahead of C2Qs in gaming, especially with a nice Northbridge OC.

HT and gaming - don't expect too much. 4 real cores is plenty for gaming for a long time.

I agree with you for the most part, however, at the upper end of the AM3 line, I think that it is better for you to get the i5 750 because just a little more money will get you something a lot more powerful, that will give you good performance for a longer period of time. If you are going to go with AMD, you need to go for what they do best, value, which lies in their cheap quad and triple cores. I'm not so sure about dual cores for gaming. They may be good now, however my friend just recently upgraded to quad and he noticed a big jump in performance with it in the bad company beta. Although, he was CPU limited with an E4400 at stock.

 

[WaitingForNehalem]

the quads trounce the i3s

The i3 is a dual core that beats the Athlon II 620 which is a quad core. AMD needs a new architecture.

 

[soccerballtux]

the quads trounce the i3s

The i3 is a dual core that beats the Athlon II 620 which is a quad core. AMD needs a new architecture.

uh ok, that's not a ph2. it's an athlon 2.
the athlon 2 beats the atom z520.
see what I did there?

 

[cbn]

First, would an upgrade to quad X4/I5/I7 be noticable for me? I want best gaming power to cost ratio BUT if its not much improvement over current i wont bother. I'm looking heavily at the X4 965 black edition but not sure how they compare to Intel's plus their hyperthreading. Plus intel is swapping to 32nm soon.

My current setup:
E8400 dual core/4 gig ddr2/GTX 280

I haven't really been impressed with gaming benchmarks for Phenom II x4. However, if you plan on carrying over DDR2 it is pretty hard to beat some of the AM2+/Phenom II X4 combo deals happening at Fry's.

If willing to buy DDR3 it is pretty hard to pass up on Bloomfield (LGA 1366).

 

[WaitingForNehalem]

uh ok, that's not a ph2. it's an athlon 2.
the athlon 2 beats the atom z520.
see what I did there?

I wasn't disagreeing with your statement, I was just pointing out that it does beat a quad core Athlon II.

 

[konakona]

I guess it depends on where you live (any fry's or MCs nearby?) and how much you can find each for. I have both 965 and i7 860, haven't really got to test them with GPUs yet though

 

[Kantastic]

I wasn't disagreeing with your statement, I was just pointing out that it does beat a quad core Athlon II.

Your statement is irrelevant to the argument.

 

[soccerballtux]

I haven't really been impressed with gaming benchmarks for Phenom II x4. However, if you plan on carrying over DDR2 it is pretty hard to beat some of the AM2+/Phenom II X4 combo deals happening at Fry's.

If willing to buy DDR3 it is pretty hard to pass up on Bloomfield (LGA 1366).

hm, which benchmarks? Gaming is like the main thing I'm impressed with with the Phenom 2 X4's. For other things (video encoding for example) where the I7's really pull far ahead, I find they just don't matter (what's it matter if it takes 35m vs 28m? you're still waiting around for 30m). But with gaming, the Ph2 965 OC'd 3.8 and 2.8 on the CPU-nb, you really don't get much more performance out of games by going with a hyperthreaded i7-920.

 

[konakona]

hm, which benchmarks? Gaming is like the main thing I'm impressed with with the Phenom 2 X4's. For other things (video encoding for example) where the I7's really pull far ahead, I find they just don't matter (what's it matter if it takes 35m vs 28m? you're still waiting around for 30m). But with gaming, the Ph2 965 OC'd 3.8 and 2.8 on the CPU-nb, you really don't get much more performance out of games by going with a hyperthreaded i7-920.

hey, thats exactly what I have on my secondary, a 965@ 3.8/2.8

 

[toyota]

Threaded apps has just VERY recently caught on with the "Dual core", You really think 8 threads will come in handy that quickly?? Prepare to wait for another 4 years before that happens.

For comparison
I still rock a opteron 144 at the moment, single core 2.9ghz socket 939. paired with 4870, Yea,, i get bottled sure, but it still Works FINEe, so i'm not getting 100fps,, i get rounddd 60. not such a big deal.

single core Opty and a 4870? wow that poor 4870...lol. yeah I would love to see you averaging 60 fps in many of the latest games. that cpu doesnt even meet the recommended and in some cases the minimum requirements to play plenty of modern games.

I would go with an i5 750 myself. the cost is about the same as the Phenom 2 965 while the i5 750 offers the better overall performance. also the i5 750 can overclock much better for an even bigger lead in overall performance.

 

[maniac5999]

Well, I guess I'm going to have to be the party crasher here. Why upgrade? That 8400 is still one of the best duals around. Heck, Nehalem didn't really improve on the C2D's IPC, it just added Hyperthreading, and an integrated memory controller (although the controller on the duals is worse than the lga775's) Crank that 8400 to 4ghz+ and I'd be surprised if you ran into problems with any game. It's the cheapest solution, and there's good stuff coming up in the near future. USB3 will make external storage 10x easier, and we're looking at a full shift to 32nm in he next 6 months or so. Plus, Bulldozer will hopefully make AMD competitive in the high end space, and finally force Intel to drop it's prices (C'mon the 920 has been at $280 for 15 months, that's ridiculous) The longer that you can wait between upgrades the better off you are.

 

[toyota]

Well, I guess I'm going to have to be the party crasher here. Why upgrade? That 8400 is still one of the best duals around. Heck, Nehalem didn't really improve on the C2D's IPC, it just added Hyperthreading, and an integrated memory controller (although the controller on the duals is worse than the lga775's) Crank that 8400 to 4ghz+ and I'd be surprised if you ran into problems with any game. It's the cheapest solution, and there's good stuff coming up in the near future. USB3 will make external storage 10x easier, and we're looking at a full shift to 32nm in he next 6 months or so. Plus, Bulldozer will hopefully make AMD competitive in the high end space, and finally force Intel to drop it's prices (C'mon the 920 has been at $280 for 15 months, that's ridiculous) The longer that you can wait between upgrades the better off you are.

if he is just sticking with his current gtx280 for a while then yeah holding on to the E8400 for a bit longer isnt going to hurt. an e8400 at 4 is fine but if you are playing those few cpu intensive games and have a very high end gpu setup like gtx295/5870 or better then its probably worth it to go i7/i5. I am basing all this on just gaming of course.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Phenom II doesn't compare to the Intel i series.

In gaming they do for the most part. And price/performance. Seeing as this thread is about gaming, I think your comment is incorrect in this context.

I think the only game that I've seen really benefit in a big way with an Intel i series processor over Phenom is Far Cry 2. Otherwise they seem to be pretty close for the most part from what I've seen.

OP, is your current processor holding you back in the games you play? I'd think that what you have is still pretty capable.

 

[HeXen]

Well, I guess I'm going to have to be the party crasher here. Why upgrade? That 8400 is still one of the best duals around. Heck, Nehalem didn't really improve on the C2D's IPC, it just added Hyperthreading, and an integrated memory controller (although the controller on the duals is worse than the lga775's) Crank that 8400 to 4ghz+ and I'd be surprised if you ran into problems with any game. It's the cheapest solution, and there's good stuff coming up in the near future. USB3 will make external storage 10x easier, and we're looking at a full shift to 32nm in he next 6 months or so. Plus, Bulldozer will hopefully make AMD competitive in the high end space, and finally force Intel to drop it's prices (C'mon the 920 has been at $280 for 15 months, that's ridiculous) The longer that you can wait between upgrades the better off you are.

I cannot get past 3.6ghz stable which did little to nothing to help frame rate anyway.
I could probably OC the Penem 2 to equal a stock I7 in games. BE means its unlocked right? might be easier if so.
Anandtechs bencies show it only a few frames more.
My current has newer games run below 30fps. Stalker COP runs at 16-23 fps. Its holding my 280gtx up pretty bad in most newer games. I play max settings.
Anandtech article says this:

The Phenom II X4 965 does very well, inching ahead of the Q9550 and basically performing the same as the Core i7 920. Not bad at all

I could wait a little longer sure, but that never changes, theres always something better around the corner. Even if i spent $3000 today on top end stuff, it still won't be worth a crap in 4 years. I'm looking at 1-2 years tops before upgrading again, by that time, 8 core/16 threads may be more mainstream.

Seems to me anyway, from a price standpoint, that incremental mainstream upgrades yields better long term performance results than blowing a 5 year budget all at once. Like i could blow $2000 right now, but i'd rather spread it out. I'm thikning i'll go with Phenom 2 unless someone makes a valid enough point to show why i should not.

Thanks for everyones suggestions, very helpfull. I'm gonna think about it some more so i'll take all advice i can get. I also need advice on DDr3 or not. I'm getting new ram regardless though.

 

[Lean L]

uh ok, that's not a ph2. it's an athlon 2.
the athlon 2 beats the atom z520.
see what I did there?

it's really not his fault that you couldn't specify p2 in your statement. Regardless, current athlons are based on the p2 architecture anyways.

your stupid counterexample spans across two completely different architectures.

 

[cbn]

In gaming they do for the most part. And price/performance. Seeing as this thread is about gaming, I think your comment is incorrect in this context.

Biggest problem for AMD is the overclocking capability of Core i3.

In Dragon Age Origins (which scales 75% with quad core), we see 4 Ghz Core i3 beating 3.4 Ghz Phenom II x4 according to the Anandtech review.

Now granted the Core i3 is overclocked, but that was on the stock cooler. With aftermarket gear on both CPUs we would be talking a 4.5-4.6 Ghz Core i3 vs. a 4 Ghz Phenom II x4.