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Gaming PC for use with Full-HD TV

B

Binary12

Junior Member
Hello!
Im building my first computer and have chosed these parts as they have been good value (in Sweden), good performance and hopefully fit my needs: Gaming PC to be used with a 40-42" Full-HD TV. I will also clock my computer even though not to the fullest.

I am not including any links or prices as all I have is Swedish links/prices. Do you guys know any good "pricerunner" page that helps showing the cheapest price of things, worldwide?

Motherboard - Gigabyte GA-EP35-DS4
Processor - Intel Core 2 Duo E8400
Processor cooler - Scythe Ninja Plus B
Memory - OCZ DDR2 PC9600
Grafic Card - GeForce 9800GX2
Harddrive - Samsung F1 HD103UJ 32MB 1TB
DVD - Pioneer DVR-215
PSU - Corsair HX520
Chassi - Antech P182

I would love to hear some comments or any changes you would like to add.

The budget im trying to keep is around 12 000Kr or 2000USD. What I have written above will cost me 11 234kr (1879USD). Judging by the prices I see in Anandtechs reviews computercomponents seem to be cheaper in the US. For example two GeForce 9800GTX are apparently cheaper than one 9800GX2 but in Sweden its the otherway around so my budget may be completely wrong from an american perspective 🙂

Hope you can help me with my computer eventhough im on the other side of the globe! 😉

BestRegards
Fredrik
 
What are you doing with your PC?

Consider getting the 8800GTS 512MB instead of the 9800GTX or GX2, as the performance difference doesn't seem to be enough to justify the price jump.

Assuming you'll just be gaming on 1920*1080 on that TV, you mightn't need the current best card to power it.

Your other component choices look pretty good, though OCZ memory tends to be overpriced for what you're getting.
 
MB: Maybe save a little with a DS3R/DS3L
CPU: Good choice
CPU cooler: Not the best, try to get a Xigmatek S1283, Kingwin Revolution 12025, OCZ Vendetta 2, Tuniq or Thermalright Ultra
Memory: OCZ isn't the best, try Crucial, GSkill, Corsair, Kingston, Mushkin, AData. 9600 is also overkill. You probably aren't going to get past 500mhz fsb, so pc8000/8500 will be plenty of speed.
GPU: With new cards coming out in less than a month, it's not recommended to get the highest solution. Also, a single 9800GTX (basically an overclocked 8800GTS 512MB) will be plenty of power for pretty much anything except for maybe Crysis and Flight Simulator X, but then a GX2 won't help you much with those either. So the general concensus would be to get a 8800GTS 512MB, overclock it yourself and wait for the new cards to come out in a month to see if you want to upgrade.
HD: I don't know what the prices are like in Sweden but in the US, the 750GB offers a much better GB/$ ratio.
DVD: Just get whatever's cheapest as this is a mature product so they are all pretty much the same now.
PSU: Won't be enough to power the GX2 with any overclocking or the upcoming GT200. So you should look at 620HX or myabe Corair/PC Power & Cooling 750W if you don't mind the non-modular design. OCZ is also a decent choice.
Chassis: Good choice. Antec 900 is also good because it provides very good airflow.
 
Thank you for your quick respons!

The main use for my computer will be gaming on as high settings possible (defenitly very high resolutions) and on a Full-HD TV. I will also clock my computer at some point.

You probably aren't going to get past 500mhz fsb
Click to expand...
Why? The motherboard handles up to 1333Mhz FSB and the RAM I picked should be great for clocking, a little expensive but great for clocking. I'll read-up on the RAM you recommended as I can admit, the ones I picked are pricy and a bit overkill.


I don't know what the prices are like in Sweden but in the US, the 750GB offers a much better GB/$ ratio.
Click to expand...
What I have read its a great disc and also offer a good GB/Kr but, do you think I should go for two smaller (less GB) discs and for a RAID-0 instead of this option? As it is even faster.


I choosed the 9800GX2 mainly because it has HDMI output. I don't really know how much "performance" I would lose using a DVI-HDMI instead of HDMI-HDMI but I suppose it will be some loss. After reading tests and reviews about the 9800GX2 I've seen that it performs just little less than 2x 9800GTX SLI in Crysis with Very High Settings:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knKWVG6blIA

I might take your advice and wait for these new cards, is there a more specific date? But as for 2x overclocked 8800GTS 512MB I don't think they will perform as good as one 9800GX2. They are cheaper but not as good and I loose my HDMI output.

Won't be enough to power the GX2 with any overclocking or the upcoming GT200. So you should look at 620HX or myabe Corair/PC Power & Cooling 750W if you don't mind the non-modular design. OCZ is also a decent choice.
Click to expand...
Really? Okay, then Ill have to replan but should I stick to Corsair? and will a "bigger" PSU (more wattage) fit in the Antec 182 chassi?

Thank you so much for your comments!

/Fredrik

 
Hi there,

Ok, first you are confused due to Intel's marketing scheme. 1333MHz is a QDR rate. It actually does NOT run at 1333MHz. It runs at 1/4 of that -- 333MHz. It can simply transmit 4 bits whereas a mid-90s style bus could only transmit 1 bit. Thus, it appears to be clocked at 1333MHz from a mid-90s perspective.

So, a 500MHz bus is actually a "2000MHz bus speed." And when I say that I overclocked my E4300 (an 800MHz part) to a 1466MHz bus, I actually went from 200 to 366.

So, the RAM speeds go based on this lower rate. So, at 200MHz bus the fastest you can run is 400MHz (DDR2-800). At a 500MHz bus, you can run your ram at 1000MHz fastest. This, unfortunately, also is plagued with marketing. Because, the RAM is DDR so it transmits 2 bits whereas a mid-90s RAM would transmit 1 bit. So, a 1000MHz DDR2 is actually called 2000MHz. It does not really exist, maybe only in DDR3 not with DDR2.

So, basically, a 9600 grade RAM can handle 1200MHz DDR, which is a 600MHz actual bus speed (so called 2400MHz FSB). This is wicked overkill. I have DDR2-8000, which is good for a 1000MHz DDR speed, meaning 500MHz actual bus. As I said, I'm running a 366MHz bus though. But, instead of using a 2:1 ratio, I use a 4:3 ratio. So, my RAM is not set to the max (DDR 1466) but rather a lower value (DDR2 976).

Hopefully through all this I helped you in some manner. My basic point is you appeared confused as to how these bus speeds, and RAM speeds relate to each other. So, the other poster talking about a 500MHz bus is actually faster than the 1333MHz bus you were talking about.

My basic fundamental rule for SLI and Crossfire is don't. It is not worth the trouble, money, or compatibility. It also produces twice as much heat, so you end up with a very loud PC just to cool it. Yeah, a 9800GX2 is basically an SLI in 1 slot setup, but it does not require software to support that specific card. It is handled through the driver and your games see a normal 1 video card setup. This eliminates the trouble and compatibility. It's expensive, but you really do need a high end card, so you will have a high heat card no matter where you go.

I would reccomend a higher wattage PSU. They are all the same size (exception being Mushkin which I've found is deeper than most PSUs), so they will all fit in the P182. Actually, I have the P180 (friend has a P182) and they're a very nice case to setup. Once you have to modify something it's a pain, but I've managed to fit 6 hard drives in mine, and a full 6GB RAM next to a Tuniq Tower so I can't really complain. It seems to have good airflow, and the filters are very good at keeping everything fairly clean.

Other stuff:

Go for 4GB RAM. A 2x2GB kit makes the most sense. G.Skill makes a DDR2-8000 kit that's pretty cheap. I have it installed with an OCZ DDR2-8500 2x1GB kit. The Corsair 800MHz 4-4-4-12 RAM is good too. I've overclocked that to about 950MHz @ 5-5-5-18 on a friends PC (it could've gone higher).

I've heard good things about the Samsung F1 drive. It's a fast drive. I would always consider a RAID1 setup though. Nothing sucks more than losing 1TB of data. As I said, I have 6 drives (2x250GB RAID1, 4x320GB RAID5) but they're setup so I can't lose any data due to drive failure.

Your biggest limiting factor will be the video card. I don't think there is much out there capable of running 1920x1080 with everthing on high and have it play perfect. Best bet today would be the 9800GX2, but as others said the newer cards are coming. (Isn't this always the case? Once they come out, wait 2 months and everyone will tell you to just wait for the newer cards).

You shouldn't have any trouble overclocking a Wolfdale. Get a nice big heatsink, as others have given you a good group. Even though I have an old Tuniq Tower I've taken my E4300 (1.8GHz) to 2.93GHz on it. I also took a friend's E6750 (2.66GHz) to 3.4GHz. Both of us get about 60C when using TAT to load the CPU.

Good luck.
 
For e8400, you will probably top out around 8.5x500mhz for 4.25ghz so running ram at 1:1 ratio will only require 500mhzx2 = 1000mhz ram.
Raid would be nice but it will be extra work to get it set up in the beginning, especially if it's your first build.
9800GTS is basically a factory overclocked 8800GTS 512mb so you can save money by getting the 8800GTS and overclocking it yourself. As for hdmi, there's no performance loss by using dvi->hdmi.
Corsair 620HX is enough to power the gx2 if you decide to get it. And Corsair power supplies are great so you should stick with it. 620HX should be same size as 520HX and I doubt the 182 will have problems fitting even larger than normal power supplies.
Edit: check to see if that motherboard supports Raid, otherwise, DS3R will.
New video cards will come out June 16th for ATI and 18th for Nvidia.
 
Wow! That's alot of info! 🙂 Thank you guys!

Ok, first you are confused due to Intel's marketing scheme. 1333MHz is a QDR rate. It actually does NOT run at 1333MHz. It runs at 1/4 of that -- 333MHz. It can simply transmit 4 bits whereas a mid-90s style bus could only transmit 1 bit. Thus, it appears to be clocked at 1333MHz from a mid-90s perspective.

So, a 500MHz bus is actually a "2000MHz bus speed." And when I say that I overclocked my E4300 (an 800MHz part) to a 1466MHz bus, I actually went from 200 to 366.

So, the RAM speeds go based on this lower rate. So, at 200MHz bus the fastest you can run is 400MHz (DDR2-800). At a 500MHz bus, you can run your ram at 1000MHz fastest. This, unfortunately, also is plagued with marketing. Because, the RAM is DDR so it transmits 2 bits whereas a mid-90s RAM would transmit 1 bit. So, a 1000MHz DDR2 is actually called 2000MHz. It does not really exist, maybe only in DDR3 not with DDR2.
Click to expand...

THANK YOU for clearing that up! 😀 So if I clock my computer good I might get from 1333Mhz to 2000Mhz? In other words from 333Mhz to 500Mhz and then go for either DDR2-8000 or 8500. I looked after that G.Skill kit you were talking about but couldnt find it anywhere. I did find this kit: Corsair DDR2 PC8500 2048MB KIT (4Gb) which is a little more expensive than OCZ DDR2 PC9600 which is alot. Otherwise there is this kit: Corsair XMS2 Twin2X PC2-6400 2x2048 MB which is alot cheaper but also slower? It's what I first had in mind but changed it when someone thought they were to slow?



9800GTS is basically a factory overclocked 8800GTS 512mb so you can save money by getting the 8800GTS and overclocking it yourself. As for hdmi, there's no performance loss by using dvi->hdmi.
Click to expand...

I suppose you mean 9800GTX? But 1x 9800GTX is not equivalent to 1x 9800GX2. 2x 9800GTX on the other hand is. This graphic card dilemma is really bugging me and I really can't decide what is worth buying and what isnt. Yes the 9800GX2 is expensive but it is also good and like joex444 said I really need a high end card, I do! But to what cost? Anyway, a different posibillity would be to buy a 8800GTS and overclock it and then wait for the GT2000? Would that be worth it? And are you really sure there is no performance loss using that cable? :S

I would always consider a RAID1 setup though. Nothing sucks more than losing 1TB of data. As I said, I have 6 drives (2x250GB RAID1, 4x320GB RAID5) but they're setup so I can't lose any data due to drive failure.
Click to expand...
I have an external drive that I will use for backup but I did consider RAID but then probably RAID-0 the most unsecure of them all, is it also the fastest?

You shouldn't have any trouble overclocking a Wolfdale
Click to expand...
What is a Wolfdale? 🙂

Corsair 620HX is enough to power the gx2 if you decide to get it
Click to expand...
Okay, will it also be enough if I clock my computer?


A different question, I have not actually purchased the TV that I want to use with my computer and will not do that for several months as Im moving to a new place. Is there any.. mid-range?.. Screen you can recommend? Like 24"?


Thanks again for your comments!

/Fredrik
 
For the ram, you could get the 800MHz kit and try to overclock it as much as you can; you'll probably have a decent chance of hitting 1000 MHz or more. Actually, I check my facts and the e8400 is a 9x multiplier and usually for stability people don't go over 4ghz, which equates to 4000/9 = 444MHz FSB which means an 800MHz ram overclocked to 900MHz should be just fine, which I can see the Corsairs doing fairly easily.
Overclocking review
Any more than 450MHz FSB and you'll be looking at over 1.4V, which is considered unsafe for 45nm CPUs, which are codenamed Wolfdale.

We can't help you anymore with the video card as it seems you understand fully the situation, I can only add that the next generation video cards (G200 and ATI's R700) are looking very good on paper and both are expected to surpass the 9800GX2, though ATI's R700 (a dual gpu card) won't be released until August it looks like.

I can only give you a theoretical understanding of RAID as I've never used RAID myself, but you shouldn't worry too much about hard drives failing unless you are exposing them to harsh temperatures (below 0 or >30C in a case with terrible ventilation) because they ideally have lifespans of decades (mean time to failure of current hard drives are around 800,000 hours ~ 90 years).

The 520HX only has 40A for 480W on the 12V rail where as the 620HX has 50A for 600W. The 9800GX2 draws 200W at stock so it will probably draw 250-300W when overclocked. e8400 draws 65W at stock and will draw close to 130W when overclocked according to this power supply calculator. If you add 10W for each optical/hard drive and say 20W for some fans, you're looking at around 500W max for your system, which would cripple the 520HX but well within the 620HX's limits.

I don't know of any full HD (1920x1080) TVs as small as 24", and they are likely to be much more expensive than the 1920x1200 24" lcd monitors. So I would actually recommend getting a 24" monitor (with a variety of inputs if you want it to act more like a TV) and a Avermedia AVerTV Combo PCI-e Tuner Card or Hauppauge 1600 or 1800 series PCI TV card.
 
Ugh, don't just say "clock" when you mean overclock.

FYI you can get 4GB of G.Skill DDR2-1000 (up to 500MHz without overclocking) for really cheap right now, so look into that.


*~*~*~*~*
RAID-0 will give you no noticable performance gain, and will result in a hardware configuration more prone to failure than a single drive (drives, controller etc; add their MTBF). Leave it alone unless you really know what you're doing and have used it before. Ideally with a dedicated RAID card.
*~*~*~*~*
 
Hello again!


800MHz ram overclocked to 900MHz should be just fine, which I can see the Corsairs doing fairly easily.
Click to expand...
Okay, so the cheaper ones, Corsair XMS2 Twin2X PC2-6400 will be just fine or did you mean Corsair DDR2 PC8500 2048MB KIT (4Gb)?

I don't know of any full HD (1920x1080) TVs as small as 24", and they are likely to be much more expensive than the 1920x1200 24" lcd monitors. So I would actually recommend getting a 24" monitor (with a variety of inputs if you want it to act more like a TV) and a Avermedia AVerTV Combo PCI-e Tuner Card or Hauppauge 1600 or 1800 series PCI TV card.
Click to expand...
Oh, that was unclear of me. I meant just a good screen 24" just so I will have a monitor. Later when I have bought my TV I will probably still use a computermonitor once in awhile anyway as writing or reading is more comfortable on it aswell as if I want to bring it to a LAN.

As for the GPU, I still cant make up my mind. If I buy the 9800GX2 I will get a good card and it will cost me 4000Kr. If I buy a 8800GTS I will get a decent card but for only 1500Kr, however do I really want to buy a card now only to upgrade in 2 months and what will that card cost? Alot most likely. Its very difficult and most people say "go with the overclocked 8800GTS" but I still feel that the 9800GX2 will perform so much more when it really comes to it, but I don't know! GAH!

The 520HX only has 40A for 480W on the 12V rail where as the 620HX has 50A for 600W. The 9800GX2 draws 200W at stock so it will probably draw 250-300W when overclocked. e8400 draws 65W at stock and will draw close to 130W when overclocked according to this power supply calculator. If you add 10W for each optical/hard drive and say 20W for some fans, you're looking at around 500W max for your system, which would cripple the 520HX but well within the 620HX's limits.
Click to expand...
Sounds good, Corsair CMPSU-620HXEU 620W it is then!

Thanks again
/Fredrik
 
Ugh, don't just say "clock" when you mean overclock.
Click to expand...
Sorry, its my Swenglish speaking 🙂

RAID-0 will give you no noticable performance gain, and will result in a hardware configuration more prone to failure than a single drive (drives, controller etc; add their MTBF). Leave it alone unless you really know what you're doing and have used it before. Ideally with a dedicated RAID card.
Click to expand...
And I don't so I'll just stick with my Samsung F1 drive for now!

Thanks
 
You'll definitely get more performance with a GX2 (essentially 2 GTX SLIed on one card), but SLI doesn't scale linearly so performance gain will be much less than 100%. With current games, only 2 might have trouble at 1920x1200 on a 8800GTS 512MB and those are Crysis and Flight Simulator X and a GX2 would probably let your play at higher resolution that the GTS, but the performance probably isn't worth nearly 3 times the cost for most people. However, if you have money to burn, by all means and get the best, though it will be interesting to see the performance and prices of the new cards coming out in less than a month.
 
Gah! Why my must it be so hard?! The worst of it all is that I am starting to become to eager to wait! If the new cards arrive on 18th of June that is in 29days if my math is correct. Can we then expect the price to go down alot of current cards and is it known roughly how much these new cards will cost?

Im not sure I can wait that long ! 😕 Somebody shoot me!
 
It's difficult to predict price drops. The new ATI 4870 (June 16th) will cost $250-$300 with the dual gpu (probably called 4870X2) in the $450-$500 range when it comes out in August. Nvidia GTX 280 comes out June 18th and will probably will cost what GX2 cost at launch so $600ish? And at launch, prices are always at the upper end of the range if not a little higher due to high demand.
 
So it will take even longer before you can get a good deal on these new cards 🙁
This is really difficult. I thought of another thing though, as i'm going to wait with my TV purchase for atleast like 4 months, in a way I wont be needing a really high-end card as I wont have a Full-HD TV to use it on why it makes even more sence buying the 8800GTS, overclock it and then when its time for a new TV get a new graphic card aswell =/

But I want it now!! Gosh im turning schizo:disgust:

As for the RAM I have a hard time finding a site in Sweden who sells the G.Skill DDR2-1000, I found G.Skill DDR2-800 on some weird site but not the 1000. Is it a better RAM than Corsair XMS2 Twin2X PC2-6400 2x2048 MB?

/Fredrik
 
The multiplier is 9x so for 4GHz overclock (seems to be what everyone's maxing out around, stable anyway), you'll only need 4000/9 = 444MHz, which translates to 888 ram. The 1000 sticks of ram are just overclocked (higher binned) chips so something like the Corsair 800 should overclock to 900MHz just fine and maybe even 1000MHz. The 1000 rating is basically just insurance. People recommend the GSkill 1000 because it's cheap online here in the US. You can look for any brand of the brands I listed above: Crucial, GSkill, Corsair, Kingston, Mushkin, AData as long as they have heatspreaders. 4-4-4 timing (sometimes shown as Cas 4) is preferred if you are going to overclock the ram a bit.
 
Okay, I looked around for different RAM and found these: Mushkin XP DDR2 PC6400/800MHz CL4 2x2GB. Good timings but no Heat pipes. I actually had a real hard time finding any RAM with heatpipes that didnt cost way to much but I managed to find one:
OCZ DDR2 PC8000 4GB KIT, Reaper X HPC, 2x2048MB, Heat Pipe, (CL5-5-5-18)

It's CL5 and OCZ so I dont know, good, bad?
 
You don't need RAM with heatpipes, strike that consideration off your list. Just try and find something around DDR2-800 at 1.8v, preferably CAS4, CAS5 is good too. I'd not waste money on the OCZ Reaper.
 
Okay, even if the price of Mushkin XP DDR2 PC6400/800MHz CL4 and CZ DDR2 PC8000 4GB KIT, Reaper X HPC is the same?
 
Okay..
I have been going back and forth so many times I've got myself lost but I think this is the build for me:

Motherboard - Gigabyte GA-EP35-DS4
Processor - Intel Core 2 Duo E8400
Processor cooler - Xigmatek Red Scorpion S1283
Memory - Mushkin XP DDR2 PC6400/800MHz CL4 2x2GB - Please comment here as I am still not sure about these!
GPU - Club 3D GeForce 8800GTS - Club 3D is the cheapest but is it an "okay" brand?
Harddrive - Samsung F1 HD103UJ 32MB 1TB
DVD - Pioneer DVR-215
PSU - Corsair CMPSU-620HXEU 620W
Chassi - Antech P182

For my monitor I have looked at two different models:
BenQ G2400W and Acer X223W
Unfortunately I don't really know much about them other than the price (cheap) so if you know anything about these monitors or any other you can recommend please do!

I'm also a bit uncertain about cooling. The Antec P182 chassi includes 3 120mm. These fans are rather quiet and they a "speedcontrol" (fast, medium and slow) but should I invest in better fans or more fans? I most definitely will overclock my computer to get the most out of my 8800GTS aswell as the rest of the system.

Thank you all for helping me out!
/Fredrik
 
If prices for the 800 and 1000 ram are the same, then go with the higher rated one. Reaper is still a good model for OCZ ram.
Never heard of Club 3D in the US but as long as their warranty is good, then it should be fine.
For a monitor, do you want a 24"? If you want a 24", you'll want to look for a non-TN panel, which both of those are. You can tell by the viewing angles: 160/160 is TN while 170+/170+ is something better. TN panels are fine for 22" and smaller (because there are very few non-TN panels smaller than 24"), but the color shift is pretty bad for a 24" so if you move a few inches from directly in front of the monitor, you'll start to see the colors shift one way or the other.
Anyone else have input on the monitor? It seems like it's harder and harder to find a non-TN 24". I have the Soyo (6ms MVA panel) but can't find anything on Newegg less than $600 that's not a TN panel. A friend of mine got a $400 Samsung PVA panel, so maybe look into one of those but look for any 24" LCD that has viewing angles that are 170 or more (usually, 170, 176 or 178).
 
Club 3D seems to be an okay company so I'll go for that. As for the monitor its really difficult knowing what is good and what's not. I can't even find serious tests. Anyway, I think I will settle with a 22" monitor as it will cost me to much for a good 24". So what do you think about the Acer X223W? Or should I go for a 22" non-TN panel aswell?

Thanks
/Fredrik
 
Its a newer motherboard and I have heard good things about it, any reason I should not buy it? What is the difference between them?
 
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