Gaming/DAW

[mindrise]

Hi,

It's been a little while since I last purchased a computer. I plan to utilize the new build for gaming as well as a DAW (for those unfamiliar with the term, it means digital audio workstation. I recently became interested in music production as a hobby). I have been doing thorough research into the latest & greatest technology and have come up with a list of components which I find match my desires/needs. Yes, I have read all of anandtech's articles and guides but I just wanted to post here for some personalized advice as I have become frustrated lately after sitting in front of my old 19" SyncMaster 955DF for almost a week looking at everything out there suffering from indecisiveness. So please advise.

Processor: I'm looking at the Intel Core i7 920 as it provides excellent overclocking potential (yes I plan to overclock) and it blows away the opposition. I am open to the suggestion of upgrading to the 940 (or perhaps waiting for the 950?) but please enlighten me to as what justifies the steep price increase. Unfortunately the 965 is out of question seeing as the price is what I could get quite a nice Dell PC & monitor for....

Motherboard - The way I see it, I'm either going with the DFI LanParty (I'm using the LP UT nF4 Ultra-D right now with an overclocked Opteron 165 @ 2.4GHz, and it has proven to be reliable for a few years). Or the ASUS P6T6 WS Revolution which has astounding reviews, but costs more, and doesn't offer any superior features (unless I'm missing something), and I can't decide which one I should go for, what are your opinions on the matter? Maybe some other motherboard has escaped my web crawling... if so please bring it to my attention. Oh, and I considered the EVGA Classified but really, from what I understand, it has nothing over the DFI or ASUS (maybe the layout? not sure).

RAM - Shit. There's so many different option out there I just don't know. I have "narrowed" it down somewhat but still a wide range.

I really like Corsair, been using their modules since 2003. Checking their website I saw that the latest/greatest RAM they offer is TR3X6G2000C7GTF - DOMINATOR GT, 6GB (3x2GB), 2000MHz, 7-8-7-20, with Airflow fan which retails for approximately $579.99 which is pretty expensive, so if anyone out there can attest to the cost/performance ratio? I think that's out of my price range but if it really offers a significant performance increase I'll starve for a week .

I also saw OCZ 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2000 (PC3 16000) selling on New Egg for $430.99. Same specs, but I'm not as familiar with OCZ as I am Corsair... Again price is killer, but if it's all that I'll go mug someone.

A more viable option is the CORSAIR DOMINATOR 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 for $166.00 but the CAS latency is 8, and it's one of the most popular on newegg (which I don't like because I want to feel exclusive to some degree, lol, but if ya'll say this is it maybe I'll swallow my pride)

The other one I saw was CORSAIR DOMINATOR 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1866 frequency , which is selling for $259.99. Unfortunately the CAS latency is at 9, featuring timings of 9-9-9-24.

The last option I have researched is the mushkin 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 featuring an astounding 6-7-6-18 timing. This is at the price of $249.00. Don't know jack about Mushkin... But they look good on paper?

So yeah that's a sore spot for me... Also I'm not sure if I want to have 6 GB or 12 GB, what do you think? I guess 6GB would be adequate but 12 GB would have a cool factor. Eh, I could always add more later so this is really a non-issue, but feel free to chime in.

I pretty much have my HD choices narrowed down to the OCZ Vertex for applications and 1 TB Black Caviar for storage and whatnot. Also I was looking at the Fujitsu 15K RPM drives but they use Serial Attached SCSI, which I'm not familiar with just out of curiosity, is that interface compatible with SATA II or do you need some other cables/basically how do you use it?

PSU - Pretty simple here, I trust Corsair, upgraded my PSU in 2007 to the corsair 520HX it's very nice. For this system I'm either gonna go with the 850TX or 1000HX for some more upgrade possibility in the future. There's quite a price gap between them, so do you guys think the 1000HX is worth selling my grandmother?

CPU Cooling - Er... I have no experience with H20 cooling and don't really want to spend even more for some fancy cooling so I'm going with Air cooling. I've narrowed it down to the COOLERMASTER's either V8 or V10. If you guys own one of these tell me what your thoughts are. I'm going to be overclocking (hopefully to at least 3.8GHZ - 4.0 GHZ, will these provide the cooling I need?)

Optical Drive - Well... I guess I want a BD-ROM reader but I'm not sure which one I want. What do you own/can you vouch for it?

Input Device - I think the MX Revolution pack is awesome, so prolly what I'll go for, but if you guys have any recommendations go for it.

Video Card - I plan to game, right now I'm looking at the Sapphire Radeon 4890 with 1 GB DDR5... I also see those fancy X2 cards, you think they're worth it? I've always like ATI for their price/performance ratio but I'm open to NVID suggestions as well.

Monitor - I want a nice one. 24" or more is what I'm looking at however I am open to suggestions down to 20", if it's got a really good refresh rate or whatever... Pretty much anything would be an upgrade from this 19" samsung CRT monolith from 2002...

And finally, the Case. I want something functional, preferably a full ATX tower. Primarily I want excellent cooling, no fancy side windows and shit. Function is what I'm after. The coolermaster cosmos looks quite slick.

Yeah, so that's it! I await your comments... If I'm missing something from the puzzle, please tell me... I don't want to look like a fool.
Thanks for taking the time to read this, and thanks in advance for your input.

 

[videogames101]

No sound card for an audio workstation? But then again, I don't even know what programs you'll be using, so anyways....

latency and timings don't matter as much as they used to, just grab the CORSAIR DOMINATOR 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 and be happy.

I like the asus board, brand loyalty is all...

Vertex + black caviar is epic win, go for it.

850TX will be fine for this setup

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16835233003 is a FTW cpu cooler for the price

4890 is awesome

http://accessories.us.dell.com...=en&cs=04&sku=320-7825 is an e-ips panel for wicked cheap, amazing price/look

I like the antec P18x series, but the cosmos cases are nice as well.

 

[TC91]

I would strongly consider the GTX 260 core 216 or GTX 275 cards, they are very very nice cards with excellent drivers. Like videogames101, I also wonder why you did not include a sound card for an audio workstation? You could also consider the intel x25-m 80gb over the ocz vertex for your applications drive.

 

[mindrise]

ha ha... I excluded that because I'm going to buy my friends old M-Audio 1010 card, which still retails for $700! So unless you guys can recommend a deal on some MOTU card or something I'm prolly gonna stick with that. BTW if you're curious I plan to utilize the latest Genelec studio monitor release, the 6010. They pack a punch, and with a the subwoofer will be unstoppable! The programs I will be running... let's see, Kontakt 3, Ableton Live, maybe MASCHINE. I'll be storing lot's of samples... hmm speaking of storage what is up with the RAID/SAS cards, what benefits do they offer and why do they cost $500 +/-?! I was thinking maybe getting a second 1TB Caviar black... hmm... All this technology not enough money. Maybe I ought to get a Dell, ... but that'd ruin the fun.

I kinda wanna get a 2000mhz kit, anyone know of the performance increase?

I used to like ASUS but then I switched to DFI, and I really like the performance, and AnAndTech recommended it for overclocking... But maybe.

The intel X25 is too much $$$ I'd rather put that into a good graphics card. Yea the Nvidea is a definite maybe.

 

[mindrise]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...0&Tpk=m%20audio%201010

Jeez he's had it for almost 10 years, price hasn't budged. Still the best, now that he bought the MOTU Ultra-Lite Mk3 he doesn't need it anymore, luck me. http://www.genelecusa.com/prod.../2-way-monitors/6010a/ those are the monitors I plan to use, very nice specs for the price and the size, with a sub will be beast.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820227381 those run at 7-7-7, quite nice.

 

[mindrise]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16811129062

that looks pretty amazing...though the price is pretty steep. Brand new though, just appeared on newegg. Some new revision of the p series.

Also, is the NVIDEA GTX260 better than the ATI 4890?

 

[vj8usa]

Originally posted by: mindrise
Also, is the NVIDEA GTX260 better than the ATI 4890?

No. The 4890 is faster; it competes with the GTX275. ATI's answer to the GTX260 is the 4870.

 

[mindrise]

Ah I see... thanks!

 

[mindrise]

anyone out there got any more comments..? I'm hoping to order tomorrow so I need know what I'm getting.

 

[specialk90]

First off, what OS? I'm assuming Vista x64 and that is why you want 6-12GB ram?
2) DON'T WASTE your $$$ on the higher speed memory. There is NO performance benefit. The Corsair 6GB(2x3) 1333 or 1600 for $90 @ newegg will work fine. Also, as far as I know, the programs you listed are not 64bit native programs, which means they are not able to use more than 2GB of ram; therefore, 12GB is overkill.
I have used Ableton a little but mainly Reason and I know how ram definitely helps with these DAW programs.

What about external mixing gear such as the Mackie Universal Control or other equipment like it? I have that Mackie and it has helped SO MUCH. A piece of equipment like this will help your workflow speed MORE than more/faster ram & faster cpu plus this is a real COOL factor. Also, your keyboard - are the keys weighted or not? I find the weighted keyboards to be much smoother to use.
I have a similar M-Audio external firewire midi controller and I love it.

SAS drives require a different connection from Sata.

For hard drives, I highly recommend Raid for speed/performance and data security. If you don't care reinstalling your OS & Apps, then leave it on the single SSD(I don't trust SSDs fully yet anyways) and get at least a 2nd 1TB drive to run in Raid 1 which "mirrors" the 2 1TB drives; so, if one drive fails, you lose no data and no downtime. Also, the great Intel Raid controller is able to increase read speeds with Raid 1 making them faster then just a single drive. For even better performance, use 4 smaller drives in Raid 10. Looking thru/listening to tons of samples goes a lot quicker with Raid 10 than a single drive.

People can argue over backups vs Raid but a true backup system is not plugged into the pc and not plugged into power except when backing up. The chance a drive will fail(which is 100% guaranteed) is far higher than a power surge that is somehow able to defeat surge protector power strips. If you need backups because you are worried about a virus, then you obviously aren't using a good anti-virus/internet security program(Norton is HORRIBLE; Webroot & Kaspersky are great).

 

[mindrise]

@ specialk90

Yes I plan to use Vista x64.

RAID sounds like a pain, I haven't a clue how to configure it and the controller cards are pricey.
Maybe you could recommend a guide, a controller and which drives would you recommend for 4 way RAID 10? (what are you running?)
I already have external mixing gear, I'm not in the market for any more at this time.
Also, the reasons for which I want 6-12 GB of RAM is not just for DAW app's but gaming as well (+ future versions of ableton will make full use)


Question (to anyone) how is there no performance benefit in the ram if it's at 2000 mhz with 7-7-7 timings? Or is it just unnoticeable increase?

 

[specialk90]

1) Ram @2000MHz. Intel boards with all 6 ram slots full can run at a max of 1333MHz. This I know for a fact is true with the ASUS board you mentioned. This is also true with Intel's server boards; therefore, I don't see why it isn't true for the DFI.

2) Raid: The motherboard comes with Intel's Matrix Raid controller and it works absolutely great. I don't know how much you want to spend or how much space you need for your samples and other music.

I use 4-150GB Raptors (10k rpm) in Raid 10 using the onboard Intel controller and also a Raid 0 array for scratch disk/media cache using the same 4 drives. I also have a 3ware hardware Raid controller with a 4-drive Raid 5 for storage( 4- Seagate 7200.11 500GB). The best thing about the onboard Intel controller is the ability to create a 2nd Raid array on the same drives. This might sound complicated but it really isn't.

- What are your space needs for samples and such? Once I know this, I can customize your drives. I can also provide you with a step-by-step Raid setup. One of the very nice things about Vista is that it doesn't require a Raid driver to be installed during the installation process(when using the onboard Intel Raid) unlike XP.
Here is an example of how to set up Raid:
1) When PC boots up, hit 'Delete' or whatever gets into BIOS.
2) Go to the section that has you select "AHCI", Raid" and IDE(I think) and select Raid. This is usually on the 1st BIOS page. Then save & exit.
3) After POST screen, another screen should pop up and says hold "Cntrl" + "I"(letter eye) to enter Intel Matrix Raid configuration- do that.
4) Once in, it will ask to "1-Create Raid", "2-Delete Raid", "3-Reset Raid 2 Non-Raid" and 4-Exit. Select #1.
5) It will ask to add the drives you want to use so add all 4 drives.
6a) Then it will ask what Raid you want. If you want OS/Apps/ page file & scratch disk on Raid 0, then select Raid 0
6b) If you want OS/Apps & photos on Raid 10, then select "Raid 10" (The 1st Raid array created needs to host the OS)
7) Now select "Stripe Size". If OS ->Raid 0, select 16KB; if OS ->Raid 10 select 32KB.
8) Select how much space you want allocated to that array.
9) Select create and stay there to create your next Raid array
(The "Stripe Size" and Space allocation order might be reversed)

Once I know what you need, I'll change this around.

- What size Vertex SSD did you select?

 

[mindrise]

120GB Vertex is what I'm planning on (I don't think I'll be getting 2 of them, so no RAID with SSD). I don't think I'll need anything crazy in terms of storage space, the storage solution you utilize (4-150GB raptors) would be more than sufficient for my needs.

 

[specialk90]

Would 2 300GB drives in Raid 1(mirror), giving you 300GB usable space, be enough? If so, there is always the 10k rpm Velociraptor($220-30/each), which is very fast for random access. And then a 500GB external drive for backups. Unfortunately, I have only found the 74GB Raptors(prior generation, same generation as my 150s) for $100/each.

 

[mindrise]

Honestly I'm not that worried about drive failure, if I have critical data I back it up on my external. I'd prefer performance over a security blanket.

Hey so does anyone have any further suggestions regarding a nice monitor for gaming/watching movies/editing photo's/music?

Any other general comments?

 

[specialk90]

Have you researched SSDs, including the Vertex and all their problems?

Here is some info from another forum member which should help you.
"Both retail versions have their problems (X-25M and Vertex). How comfortable are you with flashing your firmware. X25-M has problems with lower sequential write performance over time and the Vertex had problems with crashes from large file transfers and sometimes the OS dissappearing.

The Intel requires you to boot from a disc to apply the firmware; the Vertex requires you to boot into Windows with a jumper attached, flash the drive, delete the partition, re-align the drive, format, and then reboot after removing the jumper."

SSD technology is still in its infant years and there is something to be said why businesses that use servers and need high performance have refused to switch or even add SSD to their servers.

 

[mindrise]

I'm fairly comfortable flashing firmware... not sure what jumper you are talking about regarding the vertex?