Games need more scarcity. Death to quick Regen!

micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
3,473
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Fast regenerating health makes a game feel like a series of quicktime events that you need to hit before hitting the next section of the on-rails narrative.

No regen makes each fight matter, from the earliest to the middle in order to finish it all.
 

thejunglegod

Golden Member
Feb 12, 2012
1,356
34
91
Agree. But i'm completetly opposed to health packs as well. Very unrealistic to spam health packs when u're surrounded by enemies or in the middle of a gunfight.
 

Borealis7

Platinum Member
Oct 19, 2006
2,892
188
106
and dying! i remember half my party in BG2 died and i have to pay to rez the priest and then run back have him rez the other 2. DA is for pu**ies. :p
 

Maximilian

Lifer
Feb 8, 2004
12,601
6
76
I dunno i prefer regenerating health, if the game is challenging enough it wont matter much.

I hated wandering around games with a sliver of HP looking for a goddamn medpack :(
 

Northern Lawn

Platinum Member
May 15, 2008
2,231
2
0
Fast regenerating health makes a game feel like a series of quicktime events that you need to hit before hitting the next section of the on-rails narrative.

No regen makes each fight matter, from the earliest to the middle in order to finish it all.
The only online shooter I know of with no regen is Americas Army 2. No regen and NO RE-SPAWNING either and still the best game I've ever played.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
346
126
The early Everquest was harsh.

You could go to a dungeon and fall into a well three stories down and get killed in seconds by things you group had no way to kill.

Then you had to and beg other players to come spend hours fighting down to get to your body for you, or it'd decay and you lose everything you had with you.

Similarly, raids of dozens of players would often be a disaster when those players then had to beg dozens of other players to spend several hours to help get their bodies.

And there was no guarantee those helpers wouldn't then have the same thing happen.

Add to that when you asked someone for help, you initially to have to give them permission to get your belongings - which they could just steal, and some did.

It softened up later, as it should.
 

EDUSAN

Golden Member
Apr 4, 2012
1,358
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yeah...health regen works fine sometimes, but its getting very repetitive and every game uses it. Its a forgiving mechanic that doesnt punish you for go out of cover rambo style cause it doesnt really matter as you will heal in 2 seconds as soon as you go into cover.

And health pack as someone said its also non-realistic, but at least the developers get to CHOSE when you will have aids from them.

I also like what L4D did, you have the medpacks that heals you (i think not enterily), but you dont have many, and after that you get to use painkillers that dont really heal you but its like a temporary boost of "feeling well", although you will eventually die unless you finish the level
 

micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
3,473
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I say this after playing Jade Empire again.

Jade Empire has some pretty tough fights since there's no regen.

In many ways, it's so much better than Mass Effect.
 

motsm

Golden Member
Jan 20, 2010
1,822
2
76
I'll never understand why realism comes into these discussions in the first place, it's all about gameplay, we don't need to worry about realism until we get into sim titles.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
13,795
3,795
136
Agree. But i'm completetly opposed to health packs as well. Very unrealistic to spam health packs when u're surrounded by enemies or in the middle of a gunfight.
Right! And this whole being shot multiple times, or stabbed with swords 50 times and still fighting! One shot and your character should be on the ground bleeding out!

Save games are also unrealistic, as is pausing. Games should be finished in one sitting, or not at all!

Or not.

Games are entertainment, we play them to have fun. Who cares if they are realistic, as long as they are fun. Some games go for the gritty, realistic combat style, think STALKER. But those games only appeal to a certain audience, most casual gamers actually hate them. Much more popular is the games that make the player feel like a nearly invincible god of combat, that can mow down wave after wave of legendary creatures with just enough danger to make him feel like it was an accomplishment.
 

Keeper

Senior member
Mar 9, 2005
932
0
71
Right! And this whole being shot multiple times, or stabbed with swords 50 times and still fighting! One shot and your character should be on the ground bleeding out!

Save games are also unrealistic, as is pausing. Games should be finished in one sitting, or not at all!

Or not.

Games are entertainment, we play them to have fun. Who cares if they are realistic, as long as they are fun. Some games go for the gritty, realistic combat style, think STALKER. But those games only appeal to a certain audience, most casual gamers actually hate them. Much more popular is the games that make the player feel like a nearly invincible god of combat, that can mow down wave after wave of legendary creatures with just enough danger to make him feel like it was an accomplishment.

+1 Entertainment is WHY I game. To escape.
BUT, there needs to be a fine balance. I want a challenge..... NOT frustration. I did WAY too many missions in Borderlands 1 (Bad choice due to the campyness perhaps) without cheats I was in "God Mode" for the last 2 hours. It was pretty boring those last 2.

My sons, when they were younger, would go on-line, find any god, no clip, indestructable code out there and RIP through ther game.

Sheesh..... Like... Why?
 

micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
3,473
0
0
+1 Entertainment is WHY I game. To escape.
BUT, there needs to be a fine balance. I want a challenge..... NOT frustration. I did WAY too many missions in Borderlands 1 (Bad choice due to the campyness perhaps) without cheats I was in "God Mode" for the last 2 hours. It was pretty boring those last 2.

My sons, when they were younger, would go on-line, find any god, no clip, indestructable code out there and RIP through ther game.

Sheesh..... Like... Why?
Frustration is one thing.

Mind-numbing boredom is another.

The key is finding the right balance between the two.

Fear is one hell of an emotion, and the fear of a frustrating restart does lead to some memorable moments. I think this is also why MMO's are so addictive, since you can't just reload if you mess up in some way.

I hate WOW's changes to the regen system. Anyone else? The game was much better like a year after launch.
 

Dannar26

Senior member
Mar 13, 2012
714
62
91
Man, it's been forever since I played WoW, what did they do?

I'm tired of regen health. I don't expect realism; I want to be rewarded for being careful, and punished for screwing up.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
13,795
3,795
136
Man, it's been forever since I played WoW, what did they do?

I'm tired of regen health. I don't expect realism; I want to be rewarded for being careful, and punished for screwing up.
Regen does that, it just does it in really small chunks. It is similar to having a game that autosaves every 2 seconds. This might speak to the lowered attention span of the younger generation.
 

Keeper

Senior member
Mar 9, 2005
932
0
71
Man, it's been forever since I played WoW, what did they do?

I'm tired of regen health. I don't expect realism; I want to be rewarded for being careful, and punished for screwing up.

LOL Speaking of regen... I am playing one of the expansions of Borderlands to get ready for the midnight release of BL2 (Yeah, I will be there). The zombie one. No health regen. Which I like. I dont remember if it was like that in the core game.
I load up with 2 or 3 med kits; and venture forth. In true zombie fashion noise attracts more zombies. SO RAMBO'ing the board is out. I feel VERY vested in my toon. HATE respawning.

I sneak and hide and sometimes run, trying to get to a mission point. Picked my spots CAREFULLY. Yeah, had one or two CF's... But got there with Med kits in tact. Lots of ammo... Lets ROCK...
Get there.... Meet my Foe. SUNUVABEECH.... It is Bigfoot and HE has RAPID health regen... I had him down to a quarter health... BLAMO 100%

:hmm:
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
78
86
Demon's Souls and Dark Souls handled death pretty well. Demon's Soul was my favorite. "Oh so it looks like you died, well you can continue through as an undead, but your HP is halved. And you have to kill a boss to become alive again."
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,068
1,240
126
I was surprised to see Singularity didn’t have regenerating health, but an inventory med kit system.
 

tommo123

Platinum Member
Sep 25, 2005
2,617
47
91
I dunno i prefer regenerating health, if the game is challenging enough it wont matter much.

I hated wandering around games with a sliver of HP looking for a goddamn medpack :(
this! otoh, there should be a more realistic option for games (maybe just the hardest difficulty mode) like the rainbow 6 games iirc? 1 shot can kill you so be fucking careful!). but, let those of us who don't want a panic attack playing a game have fun and keep our regen health :)
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
346
126
I'll never understand why realism comes into these discussions in the first place, it's all about gameplay, we don't need to worry about realism until we get into sim titles.
Realism is usually 'a factor' in fiction. Think about how many Star Trek arguments there are based on 'realism'.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
13,795
3,795
136
Realism is usually 'a factor' in fiction. Think about how many Star Trek arguments there are based on 'realism'.
Most of the time what you are really talking about is 'suspension of disbelief'. A well crafted story is internally consistent so that we can learn the rules it works by and anticipate the outcome of an action, this is required for us to suspend disbelief.

If a video game failed at this it would probably be unplayable, so I don't think that is it.

What I think is really going on is that some people want specific types of games, in this case First Person Shooters, to be less abstracted and more of a simulation. As I pointed out, that there are games that go further down that path, but not every game should.

In a way every game is a puzzle. We have to figure out the rules that the game works by, and use those rules to accomplish a task.
 

Monster_Munch

Senior member
Oct 19, 2010
873
1
0
Regen makes game difficulty easier to balance. The designer can assume the player starts each encounter with full health.

From a player's point of view it reduces the need to quicksave after every fight.
 

AyashiKaibutsu

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2004
9,306
3
81
Regen makes game difficulty easier to balance. The designer can assume the player starts each encounter with full health.

From a player's point of view it reduces the need to quicksave after every fight.
This. It was invented to allow for stream lined development so they could pump out a game every year consistently. Total lazy cop out that definitely reduces the quality of games.
 

Stringjam

Golden Member
Jun 30, 2011
1,871
33
91
I like the approach used by FarCry2. Yeah, you have the typical stim pack setup, but allowing yourself to become too injured means you have to find good enough cover to do some time intensive "self surgery," (digging the bullet out with your knife, etc).
 

Dumac

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,391
1
0
Agree. But i'm completetly opposed to health packs as well. Very unrealistic to spam health packs when u're surrounded by enemies or in the middle of a gunfight.
What is there is an animation that goes with it, leaving you open to attacks.
 

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