Games moving away from windows xp and what it means for the industry

[Texashiker]

Battlefield 3 does not support Dx9, and will not run on XP. I think this is going to have some major implications on the PC gaming market, both in graphics and system performance.

Lets use the steam stats as a resource and starting point.

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey

Windows 7 64 bit - 41.06%
Windows XP 32 bit - 18.47%
Windows Vista 64 bit - 12.44%
Windows Vista 32 bit - 11.94%

Since BF3 does not support XP, around 18% of the customer base will not be able to play.

Now lets take the Source engine that runs on Dx9, and is going on 7 years old. With new games like BF3 moving away from Dx9 and windows XP, can Valve release another Dx9 game, stay with current trends and stay competitive?

With the success of Metro2033, I suspect that Metro: First Light will be a Dx11 game.

Serious Sam BFE - the steam store says its DirectX: 9.0c

Rage - OpenGL

Skyrim - found some stuff that says is might be a Dx11 game

Then there are the memory requirements, as games grow larger, and memory is cheap, how long until windows xp can just provide enough memory for the game to run? There are a number of games where the recommended specs for XP are calling for the maximum amount of memory XP supports. I feel that games and game developers have reached a point where XP is no longer a valid gaming platform.

Windows XP will continue to lose market share, that is for certain, but will directx9 games also lose market share?

Playing left 4 dead 2 the other night, I have to admit the graphics look dated and stale. To me, metro2033 looks better then l4d/l4d2, and I do not have a dx11 video card.

In short:

As more people move away from XP, I suspect gamers will up the graphics bar with Dx11. When a game like BF3 or Metro: First Light is released, its going to be difficult for people to go back to a game running Dx9.

Has windows XP reached its end of life as a gaming platform?

But, with XP still controlling 18% of the market, it will not be easy to dismiss.

 

[Rifter]

XP reached end of life as a gaming platform when MS decided not to allow it to run DX 11.

 

[TakeNoPrisoners]

People that are still using XP probably haven't upgraded anything else in their computer so their hardware is probably going to be outdated anyway.

Therefore they wouldn't even be able to run the game if it supported DX 9. Honestly those people might as well get a console.

The games they do have are probably limping along at some low resolution and minimal settings.

 

[Texashiker]

XP reached end of life as a gaming platform when MS decided not to allow it to run DX 11.

MS announced that years ago, why has it taken developers so long to move to dx11?

 

[Absolution75]

MS announced that years ago, why has it taken developers so long to move to dx11?

A combination of waiting for people to get on board with vista/7 (the lack of a good vista launch really hurt), the availability of DX10+ HW, development time for the new engine, driver support, knowing when to leave their low end users (along with just the cost of supporting many more types of hardware), the list goes on.

For each company its unique as they themselves decide when to go to DX10+.

Software lags behind HW.

If people have modern hardware to run games like BF3, its a non-issue to install a new OS. People who are on old hardware aren't even in the target market anyway.

 

[Texashiker]

If people have modern hardware to run games like BF3, its a non-issue to install a new OS. People who are on old hardware aren't even in the target market anyway.

My son asked about BF3, but he is running XP. The good thing, I have a spare windows 7 - 64bit license.

I might install windows 7 on my sons computer this weekend and get him BF3 next week. He has a GTX460, so with windows 7 he should be able to play the new dx11 games.

 

[sandorski]

What does BF3/DX11 have to do with Valve/Others/DX9?

WinXP is about as obsolete as Win95 was when WinXP first came out. Time to Upgrade.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Vista was a sales failure so it didn't drive DX10 use. Win 7 was a hit, so people moved to it for their new PCs instead of reinstalling XP.

Windows 7 just recently overtook XP, with Vista remaining a distant and unloved third.

 

[Rifter]

MS announced that years ago, why has it taken developers so long to move to dx11?

As i have been beat to the punch by multiple posters it was the flop that is Vista that slowed adoption.

 

[Texashiker]

What does BF3/DX11 have to do with Valve/Others/DX9?

I believe games like BF3, Skyrim and Metro:First Light are going to raise the bar in graphics.

For companies like Valve to stay competitive, they are going to have to step-up. The source engine has not received a major update in years; Valve did not even make an appearance at E3.

Counter-Strike:GO is due out sometime in 2012? Is it going to use graphics from 2004, or graphics from 2012?

 

[Pantlegz]

What does BF3/DX11 have to do with Valve/Others/DX9?

WinXP is about as obsolete as Win95 was when WinXP first came out. Time to Upgrade.

Seriously, it's a 10 year old OS. People need to move on already. Vista was better, win7 is even more of an improvement. No reason to stick with xp any more.

The reason DX11 hasn't picked up much steam is due to the fact that most games are console ports and those consoles run DX9. I have a feeling more DX11 games will magically sprout up with the next generation of consoles.

 

[Rifter]

I believe games like BF3, Skyrim and Metro:First Light are going to raise the bar in graphics.

For companies like Valve to stay competitive, they are going to have to step-up. The source engine has not received a major update in years; Valve did not even make an appearance at E3.

Counter-Strike:GO is due out sometime in 2012? Is it going to use graphics from 2004, or graphics from 2012?

Are you serious? and yes thats a serious question.


Valve is doing the right thing by sticking with source, it will run on almost any hardware smoothly and still yield very good graphics if you do have more horsepower and crank the settings.

It could use a update to DX 11 features but i think valve is on the right track using a very effective engine across a wide range of hardware.

 

[sandorski]

I believe games like BF3, Skyrim and Metro:First Light are going to raise the bar in graphics.

For companies like Valve to stay competitive, they are going to have to step-up. The source engine has not received a major update in years; Valve did not even make an appearance at E3.

Counter-Strike:GO is due out sometime in 2012? Is it going to use graphics from 2004, or graphics from 2012?

Many Games/Engines have raised the bar. I fail to see how those points pertain to your lament about WinXP support though.

 

[Texashiker]

Are you serious? and yes thats a serious question.

Valve is doing the right thing by sticking with source, it will run on almost any hardware smoothly and still yield very good graphics if you do have more horsepower and crank the settings.

I see a conflict in your statement, you say XP has reached its end of life, but praise valve for supporting legacy systems?

So which is it? Either technology marches on, or we hold onto outdated operating systems. Before you say "we can do both", think about windows 2000, ME, 98 and 95.

Valve might be supporting older systems, but Steam stopped supporting windows 2000 several years ago.

Many Games/Engines have raised the bar. I fail to see how those points pertain to your lament about WinXP support though.

XP = limited memory as compared to 64bit OS, and no Dx11 support.

In the steam store I am seeing recommended systems at the maximum memory that XP will support. How much longer before developers say "we just can not optimize the program to run on 3 gigs of memory"?

 

[sandorski]

Hmm, apparently I totally misunderstood what your thread was about.

Ok, sure, DX9 is going to be an increasingly difficult API to keep up. That said, meh, few people are that much Graphics Whores to reject games on that basis alone. I seriously doubt that Valve is just sitting there thinking that DX9 is going to be as far as they go. I expect that they'll soon be using DX 10/11 and also abandoning DX9 in future releases. Until then, they have no reason to abandon it with their current released Games.

 

[zokudu]

Until there is a decent replacement for CS gameplay it could be running on DX8 (Which you can still run source in if you didn't know) and people would still play it.

You also say RAM limitations with XP there are 64 bit versions of XP.

I don't think releasing a DX9 game is a bad thing now. Its not like the games are ugly. To be honest I don't thing BF3 looks all that great even on DX11. Its not revolutionizing graphics or anything. The change will happen with the next generation of consoles everyone here knows it, and until then DX9 is fine.

 

[ImpulsE69]

The problem with "techies" and game enthusiasts tends to be that they completely do not get the average persons perceptions of upgrades.

A system change - or even an OS change, takes time and money. Telling people to just "move on" won't get you very far. Many peoples mentality will be I do not want to upgrade to play 1 game. DX 11 in and of itself is not reason enough to upgrade.

XP while old (and unsupported) works perfectly fine for everyday usage and is still very viable for a majority of tasks. Contrary to what MS wants, people do not want to upgrade/tech refresh their PC's every couple of years. With Win7 just now beginning to be embraced by the masses, it will be interesting to see what the "just move on" crowd says when the "Tablet Windows 8" actually drops. My guess is it will be similar to Vista by the hardcore people.

I'm a techie and I understand that technology progresses, but even I get a bit put off by the "pressure" to constantly upgrade.

All that being said, so what? People who really want to play BF 3 will either upgrade or someone will make some sort of patch that makes it work with dx9/10

 

[mmntech]

The vast majority of PC games today are D3D 9 only, as these two lists demonstrate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_with_DirectX_10_support
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_with_DirectX_11_support

D3D 9 will continue to be the dominant platform at least until the Xbox 720 is released in 2013. Given that a majority of PC games today are console ports.

A lot of gamers stuck with XP because gaming performance under Vista was worse, due to the latter being a resource hog. It wasn't an ideal gaming OS. Then Windows 7 changed that. 32-bit operating systems need to be cleared out to make way for 64-bit systems that can take advantage of more RAM.

 

[CrackRabbit]

Hmm, apparently I totally misunderstood what your thread was about.

Ok, sure, DX9 is going to be an increasingly difficult API to keep up. That said, meh, few people are that much Graphics Whores to reject games on that basis alone. I seriously doubt that Valve is just sitting there thinking that DX9 is going to be as far as they go. I expect that they'll soon be using DX 10/11 and also abandoning DX9 in future releases. Until then, they have no reason to abandon it with their current released Games.

I'm not so sure about that, Valve still regularly fixes things in DX8.
If anything I think Valve will simply expand on the Source engine and add DX 10 and 11 features while still keeping the DX9 path available.

 

[Dankk]

People that are still using XP probably haven't upgraded anything else in their computer so their hardware is probably going to be outdated anyway.

If people have modern hardware to run games like BF3, its a non-issue to install a new OS. People who are on old hardware aren't even in the target market anyway.

I agree with this fully.

Also, "squatters" who insist on using WinXP for gaming have yet to give me a good reason for not upgrading to 7.

 

[Lonyo]

18% of the "market" is pretty damned easy to dismiss.

They are dismissing
5% of the market with under 2GB RAM
6% of the market that still use single core CPUs
13% with 256MB or less VRAM
16% with sub 2.4GHz CPUs
Uncalculated percent with GPUs that aren't powerful enough to match minimum spec.

Then you realise Steam user survey numbers aren't "the market" anyway, and you ignore the whole thing and accept that people who are hanging on to XP have other issues besides not being able to play BF3.

Also a DX9 game works just fine on Vista and Win 7. And most console ports are DX9 anyway, since Xbox 360 uses a derivative of DX9 and most ports are done fairly lazily.
Who gives a damn whether DX9 is 'losing marketshare', because it doesn't matter for the people who are actually buying new games. They could all be DX9, or none could be, to the end user it makes no difference.

 

[Mike Gayner]

LOL who is still using xp? Seriously people, get with the program.

 

[soccerballtux]

My son asked about BF3, but he is running XP. The good thing, I have a spare windows 7 - 64bit license.

I might install windows 7 on my sons computer this weekend and get him BF3 next week. He has a GTX460, so with windows 7 he should be able to play the new dx11 games.

i know, wouldn't it be terrible to tell your kid "sorry kiddo you can't have it". Good thing you've got that copy of w7-64 when I was your age I had to work for my PC and video games.

 

[Demo24]

Counter-Strike:GO is due out sometime in 2012? Is it going to use graphics from 2004, or graphics from 2012?

Already seen some shots of it, looks mildly better than CSS. Hardly a surprise as it can then run on the widest set of hardware. Considering CS is still one of the top played games, this matters. Same strategy with most MMO's.

 

[sandorski]

i know, wouldn't it be terrible to tell your kid "sorry kiddo you can't have it". Good thing you've got that copy of w7-64 when I was your age I had to work for my PC and video games.

Translation for us older folks: When I was your age, we doodled War...and we liked it that way!