Games moving away from windows xp and what it means for the industry

[wuliheron]

That won't work simply because most people will purchase 32bit. MS split the user base, therefore all games going forward still have to support 32bit until a 64-bit only OS.

That's like saying all games must be 16 bit compatible because XP supports 16 bit. Sorry, but the rest of the world moves on and the only reason anything is ever made backwards compatible is because there is still a legacy market to be exploited. Once the next generation consoles arrive with 64 bit compatibility most game developers will move on and relegate 32 bit systems to aging business applications.

 

[ImpulsE69]

You really missed the point of that post. If the general market is on 32 bit (ie Win 7 32 bit) even 25% of them, then that is 25% of market share that has to be accounted for. Very few companies are going to ignore that. Therefore until there is ONLY a 64-bit version of an upcoming OS, there will be 32bit support.

 

[wuliheron]

You really missed the point of that post. If the general market is on 32 bit (ie Win 7 32 bit) even 25% of them, then that is 25% of market share that has to be accounted for. Very few companies are going to ignore that. Therefore until there is ONLY a 64-bit version of an upcoming OS, there will be 32bit support.

And you miss the point that everything, without exception, eventually becomes obsolete. Very few developers will ignore 32 bit right now, but its days are numbered and windows 7 marks what the I-Ching calls "The Turning Point" where it is all down hill from here on.

 

[ImpulsE69]

Except it hasn't happened yet and won't happen until a true 64-bit only OS has been presented and is the only option. Yes everything becomes obsolete, but not at the rate that the powers that be wish it would. Remember, it's all about money, not advancing technology. That is just a means to make more money. Even if EVERYONE moved to Windows 7, unless they all move to 64-bit version of it, then guess what? 32bit will still be supported.

Point being - we do not know WHEN anything will become obsolete. It's happened many times in the past where the better technology was not the one that was embraced.

 

[wuliheron]

Except it hasn't happened yet and won't happen until a true 64-bit only OS has been presented and is the only option. Yes everything becomes obsolete, but not at the rate that the powers that be wish it would. Remember, it's all about money, not advancing technology. That is just a means to make more money. Even if EVERYONE moved to Windows 7, unless they all move to 64-bit version of it, then guess what? 32bit will still be supported.

Point being - we do not know WHEN anything will become obsolete. It's happened many times in the past where the better technology was not the one that was embraced.

Yeah, yeah, the floppy disk drive was still being included in computers as recently as a couple years ago, but it was obsolete even then. Almost nobody used the things and the only reason it was still included was because they were dirt cheap and nobody gave a damn. That's just not the case with 32 bit games. The overhead costs are not dirt cheap and the industry is not above forcing gamers to make the switch.

 

[WMD]

Battlefield 3 does not support Dx9, and will not run on XP. I think this is going to have some major implications on the PC gaming market, both in graphics and system performance.

Lets use the steam stats as a resource and starting point.

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey

Windows 7 64 bit - 41.06%
Windows XP 32 bit - 18.47%
Windows Vista 64 bit - 12.44%
Windows Vista 32 bit - 11.94%

Since BF3 does not support XP, around 18% of the customer base will not be able to play.

Now lets take the Source engine that runs on Dx9, and is going on 7 years old. With new games like BF3 moving away from Dx9 and windows XP, can Valve release another Dx9 game, stay with current trends and stay competitive?

With the success of Metro2033, I suspect that Metro: First Light will be a Dx11 game.

Serious Sam BFE - the steam store says its DirectX: 9.0c

Rage - OpenGL

Skyrim - found some stuff that says is might be a Dx11 game

Then there are the memory requirements, as games grow larger, and memory is cheap, how long until windows xp can just provide enough memory for the game to run? There are a number of games where the recommended specs for XP are calling for the maximum amount of memory XP supports. I feel that games and game developers have reached a point where XP is no longer a valid gaming platform.

Windows XP will continue to lose market share, that is for certain, but will directx9 games also lose market share?

Playing left 4 dead 2 the other night, I have to admit the graphics look dated and stale. To me, metro2033 looks better then l4d/l4d2, and I do not have a dx11 video card.

In short:

As more people move away from XP, I suspect gamers will up the graphics bar with Dx11. When a game like BF3 or Metro: First Light is released, its going to be difficult for people to go back to a game running Dx9.

Has windows XP reached its end of life as a gaming platform?

But, with XP still controlling 18% of the market, it will not be easy to dismiss.

BF3 does support DX9. Just not on pc. Both consoles uses only DX9 capable gpu. The xbox360 API is DX9 with stream out. They drop xp support because the engine is marketed as specially built for DX11. It worked because thats what hardware enthusiasts are dying to hear. A game that will finally bring out the potential on their shiny new DX11 toys.

 

[wuliheron]

BF3 does support DX9. Just not on pc. Both consoles uses only DX9 capable gpu. The xbox360 API is DX9 with stream out. They drop xp support because the engine is marketed as specially built for DX11. It worked because thats what hardware enthusiasts are dying to hear. A game that will finally bring out the potential on their shiny new DX11 toys.

Exactly, its EA spouting more marketing B.S. hoping to gain an edge over MW3 and by all accounts it doesn't look any better then previous offerings except in the promotional videos. Developers have been dangling the promise of better graphics since the original Crysis came out and other then minor improvements they have yet to deliver. Not because they don't care, but they simply can't do much better with the current technology and its an easy sale to claim they have.

 

[Absolution75]

You really missed the point of that post. If the general market is on 32 bit (ie Win 7 32 bit) even 25% of them, then that is 25% of market share that has to be accounted for. Very few companies are going to ignore that. Therefore until there is ONLY a 64-bit version of an upcoming OS, there will be 32bit support.

Microsoft has said in the past that Windows 7 was their last x86 32bit OS. I don't know if they'll keep their word, but its what they've said.

Windows Server 2008 R2 already only supports x64, so dropping 32bit Windows 8 is a very real possibility.

We'll likely have x64 and x86 builds of games until literally everyone is running x64 (maybe 6 years from now?). But really, it doesn't matter if a game is built for x64, there is little reason to use one over the other except for being able to address > 2GB of memory for your game.

 

[Lonyo]

Microsoft has said in the past that Windows 7 was their last x86 32bit OS. I don't know if they'll keep their word, but its what they've said.

Windows Server 2008 R2 already only supports x64, so dropping 32bit Windows 8 is a very real possibility.

We'll likely have x64 and x86 builds of games until literally everyone is running x64 (maybe 6 years from now?). But really, it doesn't matter if a game is built for x64, there is little reason to use one over the other except for being able to address > 2GB of memory for your game.

The main thing is OEMs won't be using Win 7/8 32-bit because they can't pack in 4GB+ of RAM and use it as a selling point.
They will have to use 64-bit Windows so they can say "4GB/6GB/8GB RAM" and use that as a bigger number = better selling point.

For once, we can be thankful for marketing.
You already get a lot of machines with 3GB RAM because the manufacturer is being as cheap as possible and going 32-bit OS and the max RAM they can put in without it being unused. My 2 year old laptop came with 32-bit Vista and 3GB RAM because of that.

Edit: Checking on the Dell website, even the (very few) machines which do come with 2GB or 3GB RAM ship with Win 7 64-bit already. Not a 32-bit in sight.

 

[s44]

Microsoft has said in the past that Windows 7 was their last x86 32bit OS. I don't know if they'll keep their word, but its what they've said.

There's a 32 bit build of the Win 8 preview on their servers for download...

 

[HeXen]

and what about the dx9 graphic cards out there, many still have those too, upgrade that and the OS gets pretty expensive for 1 game.
Though i don't think it means much of anything, there will be plenty of dx9 games for years to come.

 

[Lonyo]

and what about the dx9 graphic cards out there, many still have those too, upgrade that and the OS gets pretty expensive for 1 game.
Though i don't think it means much of anything, there will be plenty of dx9 games for years to come.

Minimum spec requirements:
Graphic card: DirectX 10 or 11 compatible Nvidia or AMD ATI card, ATI Radeon 3870 or higher, Nvidia GeForce 8800 GT or higher.

Ignoring the DX10/11 requirement, I'm not sure there are any DX9 cards which are powerful enough to meet those minimum requirements. Unless you are still sporting dual 7800's, you're going to have a GPU which is too slow anyway if it's DX9 only.
There are no single GPU DX9 cards which are fast enough to meet the minimum spec for BF3, so it doesn't matter since they couldn't run the game even if it was DX9.

 

[coloumb]

I'm really surprised that gamers are still running WinXP [much less Vistacrap] unless it's just not affordable to upgrade right now.

I do think it's about time support for WinXP/Vista be dropped. I'm looking forward to when the company I work for finally upgrades our laptops from XP to Win7.

 

[shortylickens]

 

[Absolution75]

There's a 32 bit build of the Win 8 preview on their servers for download...

Yeah, I know, but that doesn't mean they will actually release 32 bit Windows 8.


Edit: Apparently MS statements refer more towards Windows Server 2008 (not R2, back when Vista was about to be released). Since they've released 32bit W7, then it seems as though they backtracked on that statement.

I still wouldn't be surprised if they actually didn't release W8 32bit.

 

[wuliheron]

The latest rumors have it that Microsoft will introduce the next generation xbox the same year they plan on dropping support for XP, 2014. Once that happens AAA games will focus on squeezing the maximum performance and cutting edge graphics out of the new consoles. Yeah, there will be a few exceptions to rule, but 32 bit gaming will be officially dead and the long slide into oblivion will have begun in earnest. Its not rocket science and its not some wild stock market gamble when you have a monopoly like MS that produces not only the operating systems, but also the most popular api and console.

 

[Remobz]

LOL who is still using xp? Seriously people, get with the program.

I still use XP and my system is 4 years old.

However, I am planning to upgrade early next year (Jan or feb) or sooner depending on my mood.

A month ago, my sister gave me a free 2 yr old laptop with Windows Vista installed. It was the FIRST time I owned a system with Vista installed (only used Vista when I borrowed peoples computers in the past). And yes, it sucks and I am glad I stuck with Xp for all these years.

I think I might be the only one here using Xp as their OS for their MAIN computer?

 

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

I think I might be the only one here using Xp as their OS for their MAIN computer?

Among the few. Heck, I consider myself an XP stalwart and I've relegated it for use
in common VM images (can't beat XP for a fully functional platform in 384MB-512MB of allocated RAM) and a lone XP torrent/VNC/RDP/print server/legacy hardware system.

 

[Rifter]

I see a conflict in your statement, you say XP has reached its end of life, but praise valve for supporting legacy systems?

So which is it? Either technology marches on, or we hold onto outdated operating systems. Before you say "we can do both", think about windows 2000, ME, 98 and 95.

We can do both. And i never praised valve for supporting legacy systems. The source engine is designed to work on a wide range of hardware and it does it very well, better than any other engine i have seen. This doesnt mean we need to support old SOFTWARE, believe it or not you can buy brand new SLOW GPU's. They dont need to be from te XP era to be slow. Alot of systems ship with either IGP's or low end 65xx series or GT240/GT430 type cards. Valve made a engine that will work with IGP's and still shine up nice when you throw some power at it. I even said in the same post you quoted they should update Source with DX 11 features which would obviously require owning a newer video card and not having XP but would give more options to those who have faster GPU's.

XP is dead for a gaming platform, the only reason it is even still around at all is due to the DX 9 consols. Get over it and move on to windows 7. I hate MS as much as the next guy(runs linux on every computer i own except my gaming rig) but the facts of life are you need to stay current with both gaming hardware and software to get the best PC gaming experience.

 

[Golgatha]

The bigger problem is 38.04% of those in the survey are running either DX9 hardware and/or running WinXP. That said, if you're running a non-DX10 or DX11 video card, you're probably not going to be able to play the game anyway.

 

[Golgatha]

We can do both. And i never praised valve for supporting legacy systems. The source engine is designed to work on a wide range of hardware and it does it very well, better than any other engine i have seen. This doesnt mean we need to support old SOFTWARE, believe it or not you can buy brand new SLOW GPU's. They dont need to be from te XP era to be slow. Alot of systems ship with either IGP's or low end 65xx series or GT240/GT430 type cards. Valve made a engine that will work with IGP's and still shine up nice when you throw some power at it. I even said in the same post you quoted they should update Source with DX 11 features which would obviously require owning a newer video card and not having XP but would give more options to those who have faster GPU's.

XP is dead for a gaming platform, the only reason it is even still around at all is due to the DX 9 consols. Get over it and move on to windows 7. I hate MS as much as the next guy(runs linux on every computer i own except my gaming rig) but the facts of life are you need to stay current with both gaming hardware and software to get the best PC gaming experience.

Surprisingly my GT430 can play a decent number of slightly older games very well.

 

[Golgatha]

Among the few. Heck, I consider myself an XP stalwart and I've relegated it for use
in common VM images (can't beat XP for a fully functional platform in 384MB-512MB of allocated RAM) and a lone XP torrent/VNC/RDP/print server/legacy hardware system.

Yeah, I still use XP in a VM from time to time for the odd incompatible but useful program. Those are pretty few and far between though, and I sometimes go a couple of weeks without needing to ever fire XP up. My main rig has Win7 Ultimate 64bit.

 

[Texashiker]

Microsoft has said in the past that Windows 7 was their last x86 32bit OS. I don't know if they'll keep their word, but its what they've said.

Unless your running some kind of old legacy software with a 16 bit installer, there is no reason to use a 32bit OS.

Just like windows 95 was phased out for a variety of reasons, so will the 32bit OS.

Personally, I think its going to be the memory limitations that finally kills XP. Games are getting bigger and bigger. My left 4 dead 2 folder is something like 7 or 8 gigs. Some of the maps are 500, 600 and 700 megs big. With open world games getting larger and more popular, 32 bit OS is going to be taking a performance hit.

Who knows what the games in the near future are going to be like. When maps hit the 2 and 3 gig mark, a 64bit OS can load that into memory, while a 32bit OS is going to choke.

 

[Demo24]

Yeah, I still use XP in a VM from time to time for the odd incompatible but useful program. Those are pretty few and far between though, and I sometimes go a couple of weeks without needing to ever fire XP up. My main rig has Win7 Ultimate 64bit.

Have you ever tried out the XP mode that msft has for download for win7? Looks to be basically what you are doing, although you do install the programs to the win7 machine and then open them via the xp VPC.

 

[ImpulsE69]

I still use XP and my system is 4 years old.

However, I am planning to upgrade early next year (Jan or feb) or sooner depending on my mood.

A month ago, my sister gave me a free 2 yr old laptop with Windows Vista installed. It was the FIRST time I owned a system with Vista installed (only used Vista when I borrowed peoples computers in the past). And yes, it sucks and I am glad I stuck with Xp for all these years.

I think I might be the only one here using Xp as their OS for their MAIN computer?

I still use it for my recording computer. Currently I dual boot with Win7 for my main, but I'm in the process of upgrading to a new gaming PC and the old box will be solely for recording and video streaming.