--==<<GAMERS UNTIE!!>>==-- Need input for a LAN/GAME SHOP!!

[Sketcher]

Originally posted by: LongCoolMother
good luck sketcher, there is one of these shops local where i live, only about a few blocks away. its near some fast food resturaunts and a supermarket. its REALLY popular, and really successful. theres always people in there gaming away (24-7). usually high school kids to do gaming. its called rivalution, i personally never go at all, but my friends go a LOT. just today, about 16 of my friends headed over there after school to have a LAN party. keep in mind they have incredibly fast computers and internet at home, but are going for the atmosphere. i went only a few times with my buddies, and the insides are really clean, with comfy chairs. its dark inside, with air conditioning etc. seems like a real nice place to kick it and do whatever.

Thanks LongCoolMother! that's encouraging -

Hey, to all you guys who have LAN shops in your hoods, would you please post websites, locations and or pics!!!!??? PLEAAAASE!!

I'm visiting a couple here in Minnesota this weekend to see how they do it - it helps a lot to view the environments that work for each shop.

THANKS!

-Sketcher

 

[Desslok]

Originally posted by: Sketcher

Originally posted by: PsychoAndyResponse to questions in this order: 1. Know what triple net is? What about CAM? Enviromental Impact fees? 3. Know what regulations/licenseing you'll need to sell RTE foods? need a soda vendor? I got one FS. 6 & 7. Wanna buy parts from me? I'll make ya a nice deal on 10 dell rigs right now. Have you considered insurance? Comprehensive Liability? Lightining? Acts of God? Force Mejure? -PAB EDIT: Can you afford security deposits? First and last months rent? State and Federal unemployment as well as payroll taxes? Whats your corprate structure? subchapter s corp, LLP, or chapter c?

1. Nope, Nope and Nope. 3. I don't need no stinkin' licenses! - j/k. My Father in-law owns the property and already operates a Resturaunt next to it - He's zoned the additional lot and building I'll start in for 24 hour service and is going to teach me the ropes. He's been in business for 30+years and knows just about everything I'll have to learn and deal with. I'll be using his vendors for food and drinks. 6 & 7. Thank you but don't want to buy parts or Dell's from you. I've built 7 mid to high end Game rigs myself, and am starting out with almost all new warranted equipment. I'm considering building my own systems, but I'm also keeping in mind a lease agreement with DELL. If I build them, that's a capital expense that I won't recover in the event this flops. If I initially lease the equipment, and have to shut down - I fulflill my lease requirements but am not out the full expenditure for the initial outlay of equipment. Insurance = covered, all that jazz is covered by my In-laws place and the workings out between my Father-inlaw and the city. Like I said, he'll be teaching me the ropes of small biz and ownership. Security Deposits, First/Last Month's Rent = Like I mentioned in the original post = I only have to pay utilities for the building expenses. The building is paid for. The in-laws will let me use it rent free - and the lot and foundation are layed out for expansion if needed. As for the chapter this, structure that = I'm learning as I go. Fortunately, I have a Father-in-Law who's a best friend. He's one of the longest and most reputably established businesses in town. He knows what I need to run a business and has agreed to do what he can to help me with it. Who knows, it might not go beyond a small PC Repair, occasional LAN Party shop. Then again, the StompingGrounds looks pretty cool. It'd be nice to go that route. Either way, I have a lot to learn and am not going to be sidetracked because of a learning curve. The money is a factor - I don't need to get rich, but I do need to pay the mortgage and keep the wife and kids taken care of!

Good idea on leasing the computers just in case, but can you get Dells that are powerful enough(video card wise mostly) to run the current/future games? Souns like your FIL will be a great source of info, however if you serve any type of food I am pretty sure you will have to have the local Health Dept come and do an inspection.

Good luck in your venture

 

[Sketcher]

As for the chairs,

I'm considering these: .Herman Miller Aeron Chair

Of course, reality will likely set in and the VA Loan will limit this to only a few of Aeron's. But in the long run, funds available I'd rather buy good furniture up front rather than replace it in a year or two. In my workplace, we too often "save money" buy buying whatever costs less at the time, only to replace it the following year.

I first used the Aeron Chair when I worked a job with NASA Houston Space Center. Their control rooms were exclusively outfitted with Aeron's because they were hands down the most comfortable, extended use chairs available and even their training scenarios can run into the 36 hour range w/only food & bathroom breaks. At the time, the chairs cost $1200 each. I received a quote today for $415 a piece. Still spendy, but anyone who spends LOTS of time at a desk AND uses an Aeron, swears by them.

Alternate/more affordable chair suggestions welcome!

-Sketch

 

[PsychoAndy]

How is your financing? Banks will not loan large amounts unless significant collatteral is offered.

-PAB

 

[PsychoAndy]

Also, if you flop, how do you expect to satisfy a lease agreement?

-PAB

 

[Sketcher]

Originally posted by: DesslokGood idea on leasing the computers just in case, but can you get Dells that are powerful enough(video card wise mostly) to run the current/future games? Souns like your FIL will be a great source of info, however if you serve any type of food I am pretty sure you will have to have the local Health Dept come and do an inspection.

Good luck in your venture

Thanks Desslok,
No problem getting the DELLs configured with 2.0+GHz and Nvidia 4200/4600's. Problem w/Dell is paying for all the extra stuff I won't need in a game rig. You're right, it will have to be cleared for food service, but being that my FIL's resteraunt is on the property - he said I only have to comply with seated serving regulations or some such (cuz I'm not actually cooking meals - different codes for frozen food/microwave stuff). Anyway, he said it's all very workable.

In his words, the only thing holding me back is whether I can generate the revenue I'll need to continue paying my bills and operating expenses. Regulations, codes, legal issues are of course paramount to getting started - but he's knows what he's doing. I wouldn't be doing this on my own, that's for sure!

Originally posted by: PsychoAndy
How is your financing? Banks will not loan large amounts unless significant collatteral is offered.

-PAB

I'm not tied down by Bank requirements for Loan guarrantee. I have an approved VA Small Business Loan (which I'm still learning about). Plus, my Father-in-Law is interested enough in my venture to fund some of it. What I need to figure out is whether I can generate the needed revenue w/in a two year time period and if it doesn't work out, how much of a hit I will be liable for. That's where the DELL Lease comes in handy - the lease will be an operating expense, but not a capital expenditure so I won't have to initially deal with asset depreciation and the liability is essentially liquid.

-Sketcher

 

[Desslok]

<B>Thanks Desslok,
No problem getting the DELLs configured with 2.0+GHz and Nvidia 4200/4600's. Problem w/Dell is paying for all the extra stuff I won't need in a game rig. You're right, it will have to be cleared for food service, but being that my FIL's resteraunt is on the property - he said I only have to comply with seated serving regulations or some such (cuz I'm not actually cooking meals - different codes for frozen food/microwave stuff). Anyway, he said it's all very workable.

In his words, the only thing holding me back is whether I can generate the revenue I'll need to continue paying my bills and operating expenses. Regulations, codes, legal issues are of course paramount to getting started - but he's knows what he's doing. I wouldn't be doing this on my own, that's for sure!</B>

NP Sketcher-What you are planning on doing is what made this country great, someone seeing a need and opening up a business to fill that need. I

 

[PsychoAndy]

Originally posted by: Sketcher

Originally posted by: DesslokGood idea on leasing the computers just in case, but can you get Dells that are powerful enough(video card wise mostly) to run the current/future games? Souns like your FIL will be a great source of info, however if you serve any type of food I am pretty sure you will have to have the local Health Dept come and do an inspection.

Good luck in your venture

Thanks Desslok,
No problem getting the DELLs configured with 2.0+GHz and Nvidia 4200/4600's. Problem w/Dell is paying for all the extra stuff I won't need in a game rig. You're right, it will have to be cleared for food service, but being that my FIL's resteraunt is on the property - he said I only have to comply with seated serving regulations or some such (cuz I'm not actually cooking meals - different codes for frozen food/microwave stuff). Anyway, he said it's all very workable.

In his words, the only thing holding me back is whether I can generate the revenue I'll need to continue paying my bills and operating expenses. Regulations, codes, legal issues are of course paramount to getting started - but he's knows what he's doing. I wouldn't be doing this on my own, that's for sure!

Originally posted by: PsychoAndy
How is your financing? Banks will not loan large amounts unless significant collatteral is offered.

-PAB

I'm not tied down by Bank requirements for Loan guarrantee. I have an approved VA Small Business Loan (which I'm still learning about). Plus, my Father-in-Law is interested enough in my venture to fund some of it. What I need to figure out is whether I can generate the needed revenue w/in a two year time period and if it doesn't work out, how much of a hit I will be liable for. That's where the DELL Lease comes in handy - the lease will be an operating expense, but not a capital expenditure so I won't have to initially deal with asset depreciation and the liability is essentially liquid.

-Sketcher

I'm not talking about accounting loopholes. I'm talking about legal liabilty. If they get you on a 2 year lease, at say $1500 a month, come hell or high water, you better have $1500 every month or they will place liens on your assets and execute against them.

-PAB

 

[Sketcher]

Originally posted by: PsychoAndyI'm not talking about accounting loopholes. I'm talking about legal liabilty. If they get you on a 2 year lease, at say $1500 a month, come hell or high water, you better have $1500 every month or they will place liens on your assets and execute against them.

-PAB

Psycho, I'm not talking about accounting loopholes either. I'm talking about asset appreciation and capital expenditure over term. I either pay 30,000.00 for equipment up front in a loan and spend the next 5 - 8 years earning it back on top of operating expenses and living expenses, or spread said amount over term of lease from day one, get into business w/minimal cash outlay and sign terms that allow pro-rated penalty depreciation and foreclosure - which is less of a hardship than defaulting or paying back an outright $30,000.00 Bank Loan and equipment that I can't unload.

However - I post the following disclaimer: I really don't know what I'm talking about regarding the real world/fine details of small business management regarding Loan vs. Lease relating to my situation. So, rather than nay say my ignorance - perhaps bringing more detail of your knowledge to bear on this issue would better contribute to the success of an American Dream.

From a System's Administrator's Corporate viewpoint however: I contract Loan and Lease agreements for our IT and there are benefits to both. Depending on Asset Depreciation, Capital Expense and ROI - you can be better off defaulting a Lease, paying pro-rated penalty charges and relinquishing the equipment whereas an outright purchase whether loaned or cashed out - leaves you with a gaping account charge that is not easily recouped - even in light of minimal success.

I tell you what though, I appreciate your knowledge and look forward to any detail you can provide in what you think I should be considering - I'd prefer input geared toward options that will make my endeavor successful, not just a bunch of "if you do that you're screwed" barstool accounting (I can cut and paste that stuff myself).

Shiznit, I almost forgot - something was nagging at me but I wasn't paying attention: I'm meeting with my FIL's financial advisor in two weeks to get enlightened on how to avoid hell and high water But hey, all the info I can get now will give me the questions to ask when we have the sit down.

Thank you for bringing up the points that often get clouded over by exuberance,

Cheers,

-Sketcher

 

[ShotgunSteven]

You mention having PS2 and X-Box consoles there for people to play. Are you planning on selling console games? If so, realise that the money is not really made on the new game sales, but on selling used games. A friend of mine owns a game store that also has a pay-to-play LAN.

Sell bundled time on the computers. If you charge $4.00 per hour, then sell 10 hours on a punch card or something for $30.00 or $35.00. It is worth the cheaper rate to have their money in hand, and you would be surprised how many buy time in advance then never get around to using it all up.

 

[wQuay]

I'm considering these: Herman Miller Aeron Chair

Aren't those like > $ 800 a piece?

Suggestion: DVD-RW drives.

 

[Confused]

Game suggestion: SOF2! I have been playing this online over the past couple of weeks, and it rocks, it really does! I find it so much more fun than CS, as well as games like MOH:AA and RTCW too!


Sketcher - I think this is such a cool idea! Kudos to you for starting on this, and i wish you every success!


My personal favourite keyboard and mouse are the Logitech ones, the keyboard i have (cordless one, but similar can be found in corded) is one of the nicest i've ever used to type and play games on, and the Logitech Mouseman Cordless Optical i use is really comfortable, and i can use if for hours at a time! Tho of course you will want corded stuff, due to batteries and/or theft!


Confused

 

[Sketcher]

Originally posted by: ShotgunSteve
You mention having PS2 and X-Box consoles there for people to play. Are you planning on selling console games? If so, realise that the money is not really made on the new game sales, but on selling used games. A friend of mine owns a game store that also has a pay-to-play LAN.

Sell bundled time on the computers. If you charge $4.00 per hour, then sell 10 hours on a punch card or something for $30.00 or $35.00. It is worth the cheaper rate to have their money in hand, and you would be surprised how many buy time in advance then never get around to using it all up.

Thanks Shotgun, nope not planning on selling games. Just having the consoles available for rent just like the PC's - except that customers can bring in their own memory cards, mabye even games if I don't have them.

*It will also be a PC Repair & Upgrade shop. Most PC repair shops around here are about an hour away, it's the only business they do and charge quite a bit and or are Best Buy's Geek Squad. I can competitively compete pricewise on service costs - not necessarily hardware, and will be able to service the clientel that doesn't want to drive that far, wait a week or two for a fix or just want someone local and personable to work on their equipment.

-Sketcher

 

[iamme]

I've never been to an internet gaming place....do they give you the CD of whatever game you want to play? How does that work? Isn't it real easy to steal game discs?

 

[iamme]

Also, how much to game developers like Blizzard charge for mulitple licenses, if you want to charge to play?

Probably varies per game, but is it more because your charging people, or less because you're buying many licenses at a time?

 

[Sketcher]

Originally posted by: iamme
I've never been to an internet gaming place....do they give you the CD of whatever game you want to play? How does that work? Isn't it real easy to steal game discs? Also, how much to game developers like Blizzard charge for mulitple licenses, if you want to charge to play?

Probably varies per game, but is it more because your charging people, or less because you're buying many licenses at a time?

The games are installed on the computers. Customers don't do any installing/reconfiguration aside from perhaps a custom keyboard bind or control setup. I don't think there's a volume discount on Licenses - at least not for the relatively small amount of licenses I'd be buying. Approx 20 licenses of each game. Just have to keep any eye out for deals at BestBuy! Will get around to figuring out the software side next week.

-Sketcher

 

[iamme]

Originally posted by: Sketcher

Originally posted by: iamme
I've never been to an internet gaming place....do they give you the CD of whatever game you want to play? How does that work? Isn't it real easy to steal game discs? Also, how much to game developers like Blizzard charge for mulitple licenses, if you want to charge to play?

Probably varies per game, but is it more because your charging people, or less because you're buying many licenses at a time?

The games are installed on the computers. Customers don't do any installing/reconfiguration aside from perhaps a custom keyboard bind or control setup. I don't think there's a volume discount on Licenses - at least not for the relatively small amount of licenses I'd be buying. Approx 20 licenses of each game. Just have to keep any eye out for deals at BestBuy! Will get around to figuring out the software side next week.

-Sketcher

But what about games like WC3, which needs a CD to startup?

Also, is it legal to buy a normal license and then charge people to play the games?

 

[Sketcher]

Originally posted by: iammeBut what about games like WC3, which needs a CD to startup?

Also, is it legal to buy a normal license and then charge people to play the games?

Guess I'll have to look into the CD thing - I would say just keeping a good eye on who's playing on those comps - and recording who is playing where would be alright for a start. We'll see. It's legal to install one license per computer. It's legal to rent computer time. Of course, I'll want to iron this out and be sure of how it works out, but places like The Stomping Grounds are doing quite well with it. I'll have to see how they do it.

-Sketcher

 

[iamme]

Also, have you thought of running any internet-cafe software, to manage PC time?

I can't remember any names off hand, but they're out there....could make running your business a little easier

Keep us posted on the developments of your business! Great feedback, thus far.

 

[axelfox]

Is it legal for you to play movies in a public place?

And get security...there's always a bunch of gangster who want to cause trouble and mess you up.

 

[iamme]

Originally posted by: axelfox
Is it legal for you to play movies in a public place?

And get security...there's always a bunch of gangster who want to cause trouble and mess you up.

I've heard about this. A friend of mine in CA said that some gaming shops would get robbed by gang bangers. They'd just smash, grab, and run with PC equipment. Be sure to keep that in mind. Probably depends on you location, but it's good to be ready.

 

[Sketcher]

Originally posted by: iamme
Also, have you thought of running any internet-cafe software, to manage PC time?

I can't remember any names off hand, but they're out there....could make running your business a little easier

Keep us posted on the developments of your business! Great feedback, thus far.

Don't think I'll go that route - or at least not unless things pick up and I can't do w/out it, but that'd be the dream situation .

 

[Sketcher]

Originally posted by: iamme

Originally posted by: axelfox
Is it legal for you to play movies in a public place?

And get security...there's always a bunch of gangster who want to cause trouble and mess you up.

I've heard about this. A friend of mine in CA said that some gaming shops would get robbed by gang bangers. They'd just smash, grab, and run with PC equipment. Be sure to keep that in mind. Probably depends on you location, but it's good to be ready.

Good thing is, it's in a central, well lighted area of town. A patrol car is frequently stationed in the shopping mall parking lot right across the street. Also, there's this no-neck guy named Guido who stops by - carries a bat - says I gotta give him an envelope or some such thing ...

As for the movies, I wouldn't charge for them - it'd be a perk, an attraction to get people in, a reward for those who frequent the joint etc. I don't know if there are any issues there - Another point of interest to add to the list.

Thanks for the good input iamme and axelfox, I'll continue to post everything I know and do about it in this thread.

-Sketcher

 

[Rent]

Lan-Shark

This is the place by my house that I wasn't too impressed with.

 

[Sketcher]

Originally posted by: Radeon
Lan-Shark

This is the place by my house that I wasn't too impressed with.

Thanks Radeon, That'd be Linky #2 !! What did you not like about their setup? It'd be good to know so I don't make the same mistakes or turn away customers.

I'm out 'till later this afternoon/evening - going to go check out the Stomping Grounds and a whole in the wall joint a saw last week. KEEP the INPUT coming and Have a GREAT DAY EVERYONE!!

-Sketcher