Gamer but Avid Multi-Tasker

[EdzAviator]

I have an Athlon 64 3000+ (939)
MSI K8N Neo 2 Platinum
(2x) DDR400 256MB
80GB HDD

These is my new machine, to be honest, this
PC is stable also and fast for gamings. The only
problem is that MULTI-TASKING.......My new PC started
to slow down or lags/hang when I started
multi-tasking. An example on what i usually do with my
PC:

1. Copy large files(15-20GB) from one
hard disk to the other.
2. Playing musics while burning.
3. Archiving with winRAR while surfing
the net or audio/video encoding.
4. Sometimes 2 to 4 applications at
the same time (WinRAR, Winamp, Internet explorer and
Roxio or DivX or Media Player 10.

My problems are when I copy large files from one HDD
to the other, it shows lags/hang. The mouse started to
move very slow when I want to play the winamp, the
winamp will not execute immediately. Another is when I
make Archive with WinRAR while playing Winamp or audio
encoding while surfing the net, things are getting
slower and slower. And I hate it.
The only reason I bought an Athlon 64 because
benchmark reviews says that they are VERY FAST
processor and the future proof of 64Bit but in my case
they are not performing very well.
Now that Intel realeses the 6xx series with 64Bit and
with HYPER THREADING, I want to sell my Athlon 64
3000+ and buy a Pentium 4 630 3.0Ghz...I admit that
when running a single program especially gamings, the
Athlon 64 3000+ performs very well especially in Doom
3 because I also like playing games.

Will Hyper Threading solve my problem with
Multi-Tasking???
How many percent of multi-tasking benefits will I get
from a Pentium 4 630 than my Athlon 64 3000+???
Setting the multi-tasking apart, will the new P4 630
offers equal or better performance in gamings(Doom 3 &
haft-Life 2) than my current Athlon 64 3000+???
In your point of view, I'm a multi-tasker and a gamer,
so what path should I take? Intel or AMD?

Pls reply as soon as possible. I really need your
advice before I'll make my move.

 

[Artanis]

Wait for dual-cores and for gaming upgrade your videocard

 

[Capt Caveman]

I was always an AMD user but I would have the same issues as you. Thus, I switched to an Intel 640 and love hyperthreading! No lag, apps run smoothly. When running a full Norton Anti-Virus scan, I would have to walk away from the computer b/c I couldn't do anything else while it was runnning. With the Intel 640, I can have that run with all of my other apps running and not even notice that it's running.

A64 is great for gaming and running most apps. But the benchmarks don't reflect actual multi-tasking that people perform everyday.

What to do now? If money isn't a huge issue, make the switch. I don't know if it'll make a difference but Windows 64 XP will be out next month and it may make some difference. Later this year, dual cores will be out and you'll only have to replace the CPU. JMHO

 

[Markfw]

It sounds like a lot of your lag is due to high disk usage. This is one possible place where SCSI might actually help, and the P4 would suffer the same problem. Not sure, but just a thought.

 

[Silversierra]

Originally posted by: Artanis
Wait for dual-cores and for gaming upgrade your videocard

Yeah, dual core will blow ht away. Amd 939 boards should be able to take dual core cpus once they get a bios update. Intel dual core will require a new mobo(945 chipset).

 

[carlosd]

Originally posted by: EdzAviator

Will Hyper Threading solve my problem with
Multi-Tasking???
How many percent of multi-tasking benefits will I get
from a Pentium 4 630 than my Athlon 64 3000+???
Setting the multi-tasking apart, will the new P4 630
offers equal or better performance in gamings(Doom 3 &
haft-Life 2) than my current Athlon 64 3000+???
In your point of view, I'm a multi-tasker and a gamer,
so what path should I take? Intel or AMD?

Pls reply as soon as possible. I really need your
advice before I'll make my move.

First you need more memory. 512 is not enough whe n running those apps that requires lots of memory, at the same time.

Copying large files should not use much CPU resources if you are using DMA modes. Watch your CPU use while doing this. So it doesn' t have nothing to do with the CPU. Copiying large files takes a lot of RAM resources, it uses DMA, remember?.

P4 are VERY SLOW in winrar. Getting P4 will last a lot more while using winrar. So no benefit there.

Playing winamp is a very light task it consumes 0% of CPU load. (Is you the special visualizations are not activated). Also burning DVD's is a light task for the CPU take a look at the CPU usage while doing this, DVD burner use DMA.

WEB navigation is a VERY LIGHT task using 0% of your CPU most of the time. I could surf in the web, and encoding a video with divX with no critical slowdown even with an Athlon XP 2400+.


I do some of the heavy "multitasking" that tou do , and I don't see my athlon 64 is not slowing down.


P4 630 will be slower in games, also you will have to change your videocard and buy a PCI-e one.

The benefot of HT depends on the application, maybe you will get a little better response while encoding video, specially with DIVX, wich is highly optimized for P4, but do not expect too much for winrar. The other tasks like web browsing, burning DVDs, copying large files , doesn't put a high load on the CPU, the A64 can handle them with no effort. In conclusion, no benefit.

You NEED to increase your memory at least to 1GB and try to set the winrar priority to under normal, whe running with other apps , it will last a little more but still faster than the P4 anyway.

 

[imported_fatal]

You need more memory, I can unrar files & burn DVD's while I surf the net etc. no problem

Pick up another 512mb

 

[carlosd]

Originally posted by: Markfw900
It sounds like a lot of your lag is due to high disk usage. This is one possible place where SCSI might actually help, and the P4 would suffer the same problem. Not sure, but just a thought.

That is what I am tryng to say. It's not a CPU issue. You have 512MB, and aslow disk. The slowdown problems will occur even with multiple CPU systems with the same disk an memory.

 

[LTC8K6]

Duvie's hyperthreading test thread may help answer your questions.

Duvie tests HT

Hyperthreading is pretty darn impressive.

However, you already have a system that you should be able to drop a dual core A64 in if you can just wait.

 

[Markfw]

Originally posted by: carlosd

Originally posted by: Markfw900
It sounds like a lot of your lag is due to high disk usage. This is one possible place where SCSI might actually help, and the P4 would suffer the same problem. Not sure, but just a thought.

That is what I am tryng to say. It's not a CPU issue. You have 512MB, and aslow disk. The slowdown problems will occur even with multiple CPU systems with the same disk an memory.

Exactly. Also, I missed the 512 meg, and that could be a big issue also.

 

[Duvie]

I agree with mark on this....Those ar enot cpu intensive apps and are clearly more IO dependent.....

If I run those same things I dont lag because I use multiple drives on their own channels...Sounds like an IO bottleneck.....I dont htink you listed 2 things that are cpu intensive and therefore HT itself would not help this...Maybe its the HDD controller or the way you have things arranged....

Example of HT multitasking advatanges would be...

1) encoding and gaming....encoding work will still be done with game play available
2) encoding and Folding (or other DC type projects)
3) folding and gaming (I have been doing more of this lately, and nothing gets done on the FH)
-----on my P4 I would still get about 30-40% of normal work done....

burning, surfing, multiple apps open??? NO!!!! That needs more ram....copying, burning, archiving??? NO!!! That needs better disk managment...

 

[LTC8K6]

Yeah, drop some more ram in there and see what happens.

 

[Slaimus]

This is the result of Window's threading model. It favors a single thread taking up most of the CPU by default. In control panel, goto system->advanced->peformance->advanced, and set processor scheduling to "Background services" to prevent the active program from hogging the CPU.

 

[Cheesetogo]

If more ram doesn't help you might want to consider dual opterons.

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: Slaimus
This is the result of Window's threading model. It favors a single thread taking up most of the CPU by default. In control panel, goto system->advanced->peformance->advanced, and set processor scheduling to "Background services" to prevent the active program from hogging the CPU.

Except those are not all examples of cpu intensive apps...In most instances probably cpu usage may be under 50%.....Only with the encoding does he ruan an app that will take 100% usage. Those apps should slow down in normal prioirity by default. I know I do what he does all the time and I am having no issues...Difference??? I use multple drives.

I play music or a XVID movie, while encoding, while downloading P2P (more XVID CSI files), and throw in a burn now and then when I get a movie converted to DVD.....Oh yeah while having a firefox window open occasionally talking and reading you sapps....alos throw in an occasionally transfer of 350-700mb of downloaded files to one of backup storage drive.....

NO issues here....One quick tip is to minimize apps that are not your main prioirty...They all dont need to be displayed on the desktop. If you encode turn off the preview feature may help some....think about the reading and writing issue of drives and try not to overwhelm any one drive...This I rtuly believe is an IO issue....

 

[kini62]

I had a 3500+ and was really disappointed in it's overall performance for my use. I have absolutely no complaints with my current system.

The main problem I had with the 3500+ was when encoding video or ANY CPU intensive task. That task would render the GUI essentially non-responsive. With the P4HT it doesn't matter what is running, the GUI is always responsive and available. I didn't want to wait for the dual core so I got rid of it.

If I had to do over, I might have waited for the dual core, IF they will indeed work on the current 939 MBs.

Considering what you already have and that dual core is getting closer, you should probably just wait. If the AMD dual core ends up not being your thing, then Intel will have dual core as well.

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: kini62
I had a 3500+ and was really disappointed in it's overall performance for my use. I have absolutely no complaints with my current system.

The main problem I had with the 3500+ was when encoding video or ANY CPU intensive task. That task would render the GUI essentially non-responsive. With the P4HT it doesn't matter what is running, the GUI is always responsive and available. I didn't want to wait for the dual core so I got rid of it.

If I had to do over, I might have waited for the dual core, IF they will indeed work on the current 939 MBs.

Considering what you already have and that dual core is getting closer, you should probably just wait. If the AMD dual core ends up not being your thing, then Intel will have dual core as well.

BUddy you must have had other issues.....I run TMPGenc all the time and leave the priority to normal and I have no issues launching any app or doing anything else....Any apps running, run fine ....Just slows the encoding speed down is all for me....

I miss my HT cause I could encode at faster speed then now without other apps and almost run as fast as now with some other things running. the slow down was minute for most things with HT,. However even when I ran my AXP 3200+ it had no issues multitasking and causing non-responsiveness until I started piling like an unfathomable amount of apps running...usually ion that case it was the IO dpenedent apps that did it in...

Edit: I see the 2gb of ram and those 2 big SATA drives...Did you have those before If I shoot back to your old threads??? Ram and good use of multiple drives can really fix a lot of those lagging response as you have suggested....

 

[kini62]

On my AMD system I had 2 300GB Maxtor Diamond Max 16mb cache drives. I had the GUI responsiveness issue when using Adobe Premiere. It was really bad-trust me. With DVD Shrink there was no GUI issue but the 3500+ was way slower than the P4, even OC to 2.5 gigs.

I am really happy with my Dell. I don't care if most on this forum think they could build something better for less. I tried the custom PC route, wasn't for me.

I think I got a good deal- $2300 with 1gig of ram and no monitor. My AMD system with 1gig of ram the 2 drives and a 6800GT was almost the same price.

By the way I like your HT tests, very informative.

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: kini62
On my AMD system I had 2 300GB Maxtor Diamond Max 16mb cache drives. I had the GUI responsiveness issue when using Adobe Premiere. It was really bad-trust me. With DVD Shrink there was no GUI issue but the 3500+ was way slower than the P4, even OC to 2.5 gigs.

I am really happy with my Dell. I don't care if most on this forum think they could build something better for less. I tried the custom PC route, wasn't for me.

I think I got a good deal- $2300 with 1gig of ram and no monitor. My AMD system with 1gig of ram the 2 drives and a 6800GT was almost the same price.

By the way I like your HT tests, very informative.

Thanks!! i am a fan of the P4 and the HT......miss it now and then.....DVDshrink is slowe ron my 2.6ghz from my 2.4c@3.5ghz...It equaled more in the range of the 3.2ghz...That may have to do with dvdshrink being HT aware....

I do think there was some other IO issues with your last system, but that is in the past....

I have adobe premier pro so tell me what you do and I can test it a bit.....

 

[kini62]

I am using Premiere Elements (seems to use the same "engine" as the Pro version, just minus some professional level functions.

All I was doing was encoding a slide show to DVD or encoding DV to DVD. Nothing major, just plain encoding. At the time I was unaware that I could set program priority levels. I'm sure that would've helped to allow the GUI to respond. But that is all past history as I have what I have.

 

[fevoldj2]

heh, have you considered the possibility that it could also be what is on your computer? Are you bogged down with adware and other things that may hog cpu power? I can run many apps on my computer at once, a game, irc, music playing in the background, hosting a small site, and hosting a few (legal) files to my friends and i have a 3500+. So you may want to look at what other processes you have running, what is starting up, etc... Was your computer doing better after a fresh install of windows?

 

[kini62]

Don't have the 3500 system any more. It was brand new, factory fresh
Premiere was taking 100% of CPU cycles, nothing left. And apparently it didn't want to relinquish any either. That's why the GUI was basically dead.

With the P4HT I don't have to worry about setting application prefs or CPU cycles. It doesn't matter whether it's at 100%, the GUI (and thus other apps) are readily available, all the time. Overall performance with my P4 is better than the 3500.

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: kini62
Don't have the 3500 system any more. It was brand new, factory fresh
Premiere was taking 100% of CPU cycles, nothing left. And apparently it didn't want to relinquish any either. That's why the GUI was basically dead.

With the P4HT I don't have to worry about setting application prefs or CPU cycles. It doesn't matter whether it's at 100%, the GUI (and thus other apps) are readily available, all the time. Overall performance with my P4 is better than the 3500.

Premier when encoding will take 100% about 100% of the time regardless of the platform...

The problem is I dont have to change priorities to have a responsive gui......I can do it and maybe make it help down the line, but I din't have to do anything when I was running it and opening or doing anything else....

I know the system is gone so I will stop talking about it...Just keep in mind I have had both as well and I think yours was an anamoly or related to something else...