[gamegpu.ru] APU gaming including Skylake GT2 and Broadwell Iris Pro 6200

[AtenRa]

Which is a shame. I think APUs will "be there" when they can play all games, even if you need to use minimum settings in some. Having some games be unplayable at *any* settings is an issue.

Since the APUs are not targeting 100% of the market that is not big issue.
But yes i will agree APUs will need to be able to game at 1080p to be relevant for more users and increase market share.

 

[frozentundra123456]

The "big issue" is that you can get much better performance for the same or only slightly higher cost with a cheap cpu like the x4 860k and a discrete gpu, at least on the desktop.

 

[Phynaz]

Yes, but the cpus in the gpu test are not FM2, plus they dont have to share TDP with the igpu. The fact that Skylake HD530 is as fast as the fastest AMD APU, with much better minimums, makes it seem very likely the AMD APUs are cpu limited.

But wait, I thought the argument was that since APUs are in the consoles the ports would run better on AMD PCs.

Seems not to be the case ()

 

[ShintaiDK]

But wait, I thought the argument was that since APUs are in the consoles the ports would run better on AMD PCs.

Seems not to be the case ()

All those dreams didn't happen, that's for sure.

 

[parvadomus]

Those APU's have two modules, not four like the FX's and from the benchmarks this is a well threaded game, the more cores your cpu has the better, plus the faster the core even better

The only one who's clearly missing points here it's you

Two AMD modules and lack of bandwidth (DDR3 dependent) is not enough.

Nope, you missed the points and went directly to the old IPC difference garbage everyone knows. Im still 100% sure that the minimums of 1 FPS are not related to IPC. Its a driver/platform/throttling whatever problem but not IPC.

 

[sm625]

Yep, 1 FPS means serious memory thrashing. Frame times are going from the normal/typical times of roughly 10-20 mS and then all the sudden exploding up to 500mS or more. My guess is that the memory controller is getting hung up trying to prioritize CPU and GPU RAM accesses. As a result, entire blocks of read/write cycles are being tossed out the window. Both the CPU and GPU pipelines have to be stalling. This is not good. There is a fundamental flaw in integrated graphics shared memory that has not been addressed for years now.

 

[TheELF]

Yep, 1 FPS means serious memory thrashing. Frame times are going from the normal/typical times of roughly 10-20 mS and then all the sudden exploding up to 500mS or more. My guess is that the memory controller is getting hung up trying to prioritize CPU and GPU RAM accesses. As a result, entire blocks of read/write cycles are being tossed out the window. Both the CPU and GPU pipelines have to be stalling. This is not good. There is a fundamental flaw in integrated graphics shared memory that has not been addressed for years now.

Seriously guys,there are so many examples of console ports having crappy performance on random systems, just search the web for game-of-choice + stutter and you will find people with monster rigs complaining.
Remember blackops3 needing a day one patch just to start up on quad cores (i5) ?
Remember the batman?
Remember the benches with dual cores and single digit lows? Of course there it's being blamed to not enough corez.

It was bound to happen for a quad as well,sooner or later.

Console ports are written for 6 very weak cores and if the game finds anything other then 6 very weak cores it's in gods hands if it will play nice or not. (or not at all)

 

[myocardia]

BTW, my 860K posts 1832 in Passmark single threaded -- find a Haswell Celeron that is faster

Oops, Pentium G3258 utterly embarrasses the 860k

Unlocked chips are fun.

I could not agree more!

 

[USER8000]

The "big issue" is that you can get much better performance for the same or only slightly higher cost with a cheap cpu like the x4 860k and a discrete gpu, at least on the desktop.

With the A8 7600 costing £65 in the UK and the X4 860K costing £55,I think £10 extra for an IGP around the level of a £40 dGPU is OK.

 

[myocardia]

With the A8 7600 costing £65 in the UK and the X4 860K costing £55,I think £10 extra for an IGP around the level of a £40 dGPU is OK.

While I do agree with this, I agree more with the people who say to save the $20 US price difference between the two, and either spend it on upgrading the size of your OS SSD, or upgrading your dGPU. At the lower end of the scale, $20 more can get you some sizable performance upgrades in GPUs, or can almost pay for doubling your SSD size from 128GB to 256GB.

 

[Shivansps]

dont forget the dual channel.

 

[AtenRa]

Dont forget higher power consumption, higher thermals, higher fan noise (2x fans) etc.

 

[USER8000]

While I do agree with this, I agree more with the people who say to save the $20 US price difference between the two, and either spend it on upgrading the size of your OS SSD, or upgrading your dGPU. At the lower end of the scale, $20 more can get you some sizable performance upgrades in GPUs, or can almost pay for doubling your SSD size from 128GB to 256GB.

Except going for an X4 860K and a £40 dGPU will cost £95,so you save £30.

The X4 860K lacks an IGP and even a Celeron and a £40 dGPU is not going to be any cheaper or always even any faster.

I looked at some prices from Ebuyer which is one of the biggest computer parts retailers in the UK.

For instance the cheapest Celeron is the G1840 in the UK:

http://www.ebuyer.com/629961-intel-...-l3-cache-retail-boxed-processor-bx80646g1840

An R7 240 costs around £45:

http://www.ebuyer.com/659887-xfx-r7-240d-core-2gb-ddr3-vga-dvi-hdmi-pci-e-low-profile-r7-240d-clf2

The total is £80. The R7 240 is actually only a 320 shader part rather than the 384 shader IGP in the A8 7600,so is probably actually slower.

The A8 7600 is £69:

http://www.ebuyer.com/657970-amd-a8...l2-cache-retail-boxed-processor-ad7600ybjabox

I am sure you can get the bits a tad cheaper on offer if you shop around,but in the end for similar performance you still spend more rather going with an APU in that case.

Now if you do intennd to spend like £90,I am sure you can get a better card with the G1840 which have better graphics performance,but I always found SKUs like A6 3670K,A8 5600K and A8 7600 which were around £55 to £70 the only APUs worth considering for a desktop build.

For some more basic general builds which probably are only going to run something like DOTA2 or LoL they seem to fit the build quite well IMHO.

 

[sm625]

Here is a page that contains some notebook benchmarks of Just Cause 3:

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Just-Cause-3-Notebook-Benchmarks.156117.0.html

An i5-4200M with a lowish end Nvidia 740M still manages to score roughly 20 fps minimum at 768p. The raw GPU power of that same machine is about 30% less than a 7870K, and the raw CPU power is arguably roughly even.

 

[AtenRa]

The trend continues

http://gamegpu.com/videoobzory/xcom-2-video-obzor-apu.html

 

[MiddleOfTheRoad]

Oops, Pentium G3258 utterly embarrasses the 860k

I could not agree more!

How exactly is a chip that scores 3996 in Passmark better than this (5605)?
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Athlon+X4+860K+Quad+Core

The single threaded score is irrelevant if said chip stutters at nearly every modern game (which the G3258 does -- yes, I just sold mine because of it).

 

[TheELF]

How exactly is a chip that scores 3996 in Passmark better than this (5605)?
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Athlon+X4+860K+Quad+Core

Because nobody will get the g3258 and run it at 3,2Ghz

The single threaded score is irrelevant if said chip stutters at nearly every modern game (which the G3258 does -- yes, I just sold mine because of it).

Nearly every modern game stutters on a random array of systems,just look at gamegpus just cause 3 IGPu benchmark on the APUs.
Look at black ops 3,batmak arkham knight,so many others.
Crappy console ports always where a problem,that's nothing new.

 

[Blue_Max]

I really, really, really wish AMD would release a new APU with significant gains to IGP and single-thread score. It would be the perfect chip and I've already got a home for it.

The 7600 is almost perfect for my needs and I don't want to rely on an add-on video card for a SFF project. *sigh* Here's hoping.

 

[AtenRa]

I really, really, really wish AMD would release a new APU with significant gains to IGP and single-thread score. It would be the perfect chip and I've already got a home for it.

The 7600 is almost perfect for my needs and I don't want to rely on an add-on video card for a SFF project. *sigh* Here's hoping.

If 7600 is almost perfect for you, then BristolRidge will be much faster at the same 65W TDP.

 

[LTC8K6]

How exactly is a chip that scores 3996 in Passmark better than this (5605)?
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Athlon+X4+860K+Quad+Core

The single threaded score is irrelevant if said chip stutters at nearly every modern game (which the G3258 does -- yes, I just sold mine because of it).

Passmark is not very reliable, though.

 

[Blue_Max]

If 7600 is almost perfect for you, then BristolRidge will be much faster at the same 65W TDP.

Any ETA? The words "much faster" have me intrigued! :wub:

Googling 'BristolRidge' to see what nuggets I can find...

Meh. Same 512 GPU with just a small clock increase thanks to DDR4 support. *sigh* In the six months I'd have to wait for this, Intel will have another IGP that could best it.

 

[superstition]

Having some games be unplayable at *any* settings is an issue.

As long as developers write games optimized for something like the Anniversary Pentium multi-core thread-rich processors will always be underutilized.

People can write low-grade software. It's a lot easier to write a low thread count game engine than it is to extract a lot of CPU parallelism.

Ashes is supposed to be a next-generation DX12 game but it was outperforming an 8370 FX 8 core on a Haswell i3 running at 3.5. That appears to be mainly poor threading. The big boost came to that i3 from DX12, too. It seems clear enough that the developer optimized for a dual core.

What is particularly interesting is seeing the pricey and advanced Broadwell chips get beaten.

 

[Yuriman]

As long as developers write games optimized for something like the Anniversary Pentium multi-core thread-rich processors will always be underutilized.

People can write low-grade software. It's a lot easier to write a low thread count game engine than it is to extract a lot of CPU parallelism.

Ashes is supposed to be a next-generation DX12 game but it was outperforming an 8370 FX 8 core on a Haswell i3 running at 3.5. That appears to be mainly poor threading. The big boost came to that i3 from DX12, too. It seems clear enough that the developer optimized for a dual core.

What is particularly interesting is seeing the pricey and advanced Broadwell chips get beaten.

I was coming at it from another angle. I'm not criticizing game designers for raising their bar, I'm saying that an APU is inadequate for gamers as a group, if it can't play all games even at minimum settings. APUs need to come a little farther before I could recommend them to a younger niece or nephew, because I would not want them to buy a game and find their PC incapable of playing it. And, unfortunately, memory bandwidth is a major bottleneck that is inherent in the design. We're not going to see APUs capable of playing all games until they can access a different kind of memory than we've been using for CPUs.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Any ETA? The words "much faster" have me intrigued! :wub:

Googling 'BristolRidge' to see what nuggets I can find...

Meh. Same 512 GPU with just a small clock increase thanks to DDR4 support. *sigh* In the six months I'd have to wait for this, Intel will have another IGP that could best it.

Well, i think it is supposed to have compression that reduces bandwidth requirements, but "much faster" is quite......optimistic I would say. It will most definitely still be a very limited solution.

 

[AtenRa]

Any ETA? The words "much faster" have me intrigued! :wub:

Googling 'BristolRidge' to see what nuggets I can find...

Meh. Same 512 GPU with just a small clock increase thanks to DDR4 support. *sigh* In the six months I'd have to wait for this, Intel will have another IGP that could best it.

It will be released sometime until June 2016, that is 4 months max. There is no new iGPU coming from Intel before the end of 2016.

Just to point out that 35W TDP Carrizo (same as BristolRidge) with dual Channel DDR-2133MHz scores the same in 3D Mark FireStirke as the Godavari 95W TDP A10-7870K.
A 65W BristolRidge with 2400MHz DDR-4 will be 10-15% faster than A10-7870K. That will make it much faster than your A8-7600.