[GameGPU] Just Cause 2 (Retro gaming test)

[Silverforce11]

@96Firebird

AMD performance is outstanding on new game releases, as long as it isn't touched by GameWorks.

In that sense, GameWorks being close sourced and obfuscated is working as intended, delaying AMD's ability to optimize.

Interesting that gaming media is starting to talk negatively about this issue:
http://www.kotaku.com.au/2015/11/the-rainbow-six-siege-nvidia-trailer-shouldnt-upset-just-amd-users/

 

[96Firebird]

I don't think you understood my post...

Back in the day, the 7970 GHz and 680/770 were about even in this game:

http://www.techspot.com/review/572-nvidia-geforce-gtx-660/page10.html

http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/5566/nvidia-geforce-gtx-760-2gb-video-card-review/index9.html

(Just some random reviews I found via Google.)

Fast forward to today, the 280X is about 35% faster than the 770. Different test setups, sure, but obviously AMD gained a lot of ground with their drivers in the past 2 years. Imagine if they had ironed out those optimizations way back when...

 

[Silverforce11]

Yes, I do agree with you if AMD could have launched with those optimizations in place, the marketshare would look very different.

GCN wasn't built for PC APIs if you look at its roots. It essentially running crippled without DX12/Mantle/Vulkan, and so it needs optimizations to extract peak performance. This happens over time for AMD as well as developers, as it was a new uarch for them when the 7970 debuts.

The biggest "optimization" will happen once more DX12 games arrive.

 

[RussianSensation]

Interesting that gaming media is starting to talk negatively about this issue:
http://www.kotaku.com.au/2015/11/the-rainbow-six-siege-nvidia-trailer-shouldnt-upset-just-amd-users/

Even some reviewers have had enough. This is coming from a 980Ti SLI user but he isn't sponsored by NV....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUO3LEjWsw0

If you think about it, the more advanced the game engine is, the less it needs to rely on GameWorks. It's disappointing to see that games like Rainbow 6 Siege and Just Cause 3 do not look like 2015 titles and instead of relying on true next gen game engines, they are just sprinkling some GW features but he underlying game/engine looks like a 2010-2012 game.

I don't understand why some of these major studios cannot just license CryEngine or Frostbite 3.0. SW:BF looks better than any game of 2015 and runs spectacularly well. Imagine Rainbox 6 Seige or Just Cause 3 with that level of graphics and optimizations?

I am not going to hide it - while I am looking forward to JC3, the graphics look pretty bad. Rainbox 6 Siege is just the same -- outdated graphics.

 

[Silverforce11]

@RS I've read this before, from a dev point of view, these studios have huge amounts of people who are already very skilled at using a specific engine and work-flow, from the artists to programmers to designers.

Switching an engine takes time and money to re-train the staff. It's a lot of effort which they don't see it as worthwhile.

This is why they drag on an old and obsolete engine, putting lipstick on a pig as it were, until they simply cannot anymore.

 

[Final8ty]

Even some reviewers have had enough. This is coming from a 980Ti SLI user but he isn't sponsored by NV....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUO3LEjWsw0

If you think about it, the more advanced the game engine is, the less it needs to rely on GameWorks. It's disappointing to see that games like Rainbow 6 Siege and Just Cause 3 do not look like 2015 titles and instead of relying on true next gen game engines, they are just sprinkling some GW features but he underlying game/engine looks like a 2010-2012 game.

I don't understand why some of these major studios cannot just license CryEngine or Frostbite 3.0. SW:BF looks better than any game of 2015 and runs spectacularly well. Imagine Rainbox 6 Seige or Just Cause 3 with that level of graphics and optimizations?

I am not going to hide it - while I am looking forward to JC3, the graphics look pretty bad. Rainbox 6 Siege is just the same -- outdated graphics.

And what's more sad is some users are then paying a Premium to buy a Gync monitor so that the fps crushing GameWorks is more bearable because the hardware to hold 60fps as a minimum is just to costly in those games.

 

[dogen1]

Even some reviewers have had enough. This is coming from a 980Ti SLI user but he isn't sponsored by NV....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUO3LEjWsw0

If you think about it, the more advanced the game engine is, the less it needs to rely on GameWorks. It's disappointing to see that games like Rainbow 6 Siege and Just Cause 3 do not look like 2015 titles and instead of relying on true next gen game engines, they are just sprinkling some GW features but he underlying game/engine looks like a 2010-2012 game.

Looks pretty good to me. I think such a long draw distance probably limits them a bit in other areas. The explosions, fire and particles look great, easily up to modern standards. It looks better than gta5 which is probably the most comparable game in terms of scale I think.

This is why they drag on an old and obsolete engine, putting lipstick on a pig as it were, until they simply cannot anymore.

I don't think it's fair to say just cause 3 is using an old, obsolete engine. They have completely new lod and terrain systems, clustered deferred shading (first game using this technique I believe), physically based shading, much improved physics and destruction, etc.

 

[RussianSensation]

And what's more sad is some users are then paying a Premium to buy a Gync monitor so that the fps crushing GameWorks is more bearable because the hardware to hold 60fps as a minimum is just to costly in those games.

It's pretty sad considering SW:BF looks and runs better than any GW's title ever made without a single proprietary graphical effect; and has close to perfect SLI/CF scaling/performance on day 1 without needing to wait for months for patches. AC Syndicate (GWs) = SLI doesn't work, FC4 (GWs) = for months CF doesn't work, Batman AK (GWs) = multi-GPU will never work. We know for a fact that GWs is not needed to make great looking and well optimized games.

If JC3 was made from the ground-up as a true next gen title, it wouldn't need GWs because everything in the game would already be next gen.

BTW, 1 month ago at Paris Week, JC3 didn't appear to have any notable GWs features in its graphical menu and it wasn't even known publicly that JC3 would become a GWs game.

Source

I don't think it's fair to say just cause 3 is using an old, obsolete engine. They have completely new lod and terrain systems, clustered deferred shading (first game using this technique I believe), physically based shading, much improved physics and destruction, etc.

I agree with Silverforce -- Just Cause 3 may look better than JC2 but for a made from the ground-up next gen game that happens to come out near end of 2015 (!) it looks completely outdated. The most impressive thing they have is the Havok destruction physics. Character polygon models, textures, foliage, explosions all look extremely weak in every single footage of gameplay I saw.

Ask yourself this, how does Just Cause 3 look compared to Uncharted 4 or Rise of the Tomb Raider? Compared to those 2 titles, it looks last generation so it's outdated compared to either of those. It's pretty evident that JC3 was NOT made to take full advantage of the PC.

Anyway, at least you don't have to pay $50-60 US for it -- something good has to come out of this thread:

CDKeys.com has Just Cause 3 Pre-Order (PC Digital Download) on sale for $25.99 - 10% w/ coupon code CDKEYSBLACK10 = $23.39.

 

[dogen1]

If JC3 was made from the ground-up as a true next gen title, it wouldn't need GWs because everything in the game would already be next gen.

BTW, 1 month ago at Paris Week, JC3 didn't appear to have any notable GWs features in its graphical menu and it wasn't even known publicly that JC3 would become a GWs game.



I agree with Silverforce -- Just Cause 3 may look better than JC2 but for a made from the ground-up next gen game that happens to come out near end of 2015 (!) it looks completely outdated. The most impressive thing they have is the Havok destruction physics. Character polygon models, textures, foliage, explosions all look extremely weak in every single footage of gameplay I saw.

Ask yourself this, how does Just Cause 3 look compared to Uncharted 4 or Rise of the Tomb Raider? Compared to those 2 titles, it looks last generation so it's outdated compared to either of those. It's pretty evident that JC3 was NOT made to take full advantage of the PC.

Anyway, at least you don't have to pay $50-60 US for it -- something good has to come out of this thread:

CDKeys.com has Just Cause 3 Pre-Order (PC Digital Download) on sale for $25.99 - 10% w/ coupon code CDKEYSBLACK10 = $23.39.

I'm not saying it's up there with uncharted or whatever, but I don't think it's that far behind. Plus the much smaller scale of those games puts them at an advantage I think. Are there any similar scale open world games that look noticeably better?

Also, how are the explosions extremely weak? I thought they were one of the best looking parts of the game.

 

[Techhog]

It's pretty sad considering SW:BF looks and runs better than any GW's title ever made without a single proprietary graphical effect; and has close to perfect SLI/CF scaling/performance on day 1 without needing to wait for months for patches. AC Syndicate (GWs) = SLI doesn't work, FC4 (GWs) = for months CF doesn't work, Batman AK (GWs) = multi-GPU will never work. We know for a fact that GWs is not needed to make great looking and well optimized games.

If JC3 was made from the ground-up as a true next gen title, it wouldn't need GWs because everything in the game would already be next gen.

BTW, 1 month ago at Paris Week, JC3 didn't appear to have any notable GWs features in its graphical menu and it wasn't even known publicly that JC3 would become a GWs game.

Source



I agree with Silverforce -- Just Cause 3 may look better than JC2 but for a made from the ground-up next gen game that happens to come out near end of 2015 (!) it looks completely outdated. The most impressive thing they have is the Havok destruction physics. Character polygon models, textures, foliage, explosions all look extremely weak in every single footage of gameplay I saw.

Ask yourself this, how does Just Cause 3 look compared to Uncharted 4 or Rise of the Tomb Raider? Compared to those 2 titles, it looks last generation so it's outdated compared to either of those. It's pretty evident that JC3 was NOT made to take full advantage of the PC.

Anyway, at least you don't have to pay $50-60 US for it -- something good has to come out of this thread:

CDKeys.com has Just Cause 3 Pre-Order (PC Digital Download) on sale for $25.99 - 10% w/ coupon code CDKEYSBLACK10 = $23.39.

Yes, large open world games do tend to make some sacrifices in the graphics department...