[GameGPU] Dying Light - Horrible game engine CPU optimizations

[dogen1]

I'm sure a minute amount of quality is lost, sometimes more, in the process. There is no free lunch

So there's no such thing as a slow shader? It's impossible to write an inefficient one?

 

[Headfoot]

How quaint. You sure proved me wrong. *roll eyes*

It takes time and resources to fix a slow shader, thus no free lunch. I'm obviously not claiming optimization is impossible. Also many techniques are lossy and involve degraded image quality or different image quality.

I can play the straw man game too.

Are you claiming nVidia and AMD get all of their driver optimizations done for free and they never result in even minute changes in appearance?

 

[psolord]

This is nice because it really shows how unoptimized the game was at release.

January 2015

December 2015

Also, CPU scaling

January 2015

December 2015

R9 Fury X is barely faster than a 970 or a 290X, wth?

Also the cpu comparison is not valid. They were using 980 SLI before and 980 Ti SLI now. Not the same thing.

 

[RussianSensation]

R9 Fury X is barely faster than a 970 or a 290X, wth?

You have to look at the entire review at different settings/resolutions.

There is no doubt that this game still heavily favours NV to an extent but AMD performance is much improved after developer patches and driver updates.

This chart should have said HQ

Also the cpu comparison is not valid. They were using 980 SLI before and 980 Ti SLI now. Not the same thing.

Ya, I wouldn't be directly comparing the FPS of the earlier test to the new test since the scenes are different too. However, clearly they fixed the atrocious CPU threading of the launch game. Look at this:

Intel Launch

Intel Now

AMD Launch

AMD Now

That's why I do not understand how so many PC gamers defend poorly optimized launch PC games.

When Dying Light came out, it was $59.99 CAD on Steam and $179.99 CAD with all the DLC (!!!). That means someone like me would have had to potentially pay $180 CAD, have 0 CF support and poor CPU+GPU performance. Now the game runs like butter on HD7990, has proper CPU multi-threading and costs $20.39 CAD / $61.19 CAD with all the DLC.

Even if the scenes are not comparable directly, CF flat out didn't work at a launch:

Buying this game at launch would have meant to get HD7990 level performance would have required a January 2015 GTX980 + max overclock, or $550 US wasted (for me) because the game was not ready (CPU multi-threading broken) and GPU drivers weren't optimized on both NV/AMD side. This is why many PC gamers don't buy many launch PC games anymore -- why would they pay retail prices when the game is most likely going to be released in a broken/unoptimized state and by the time it's fixed, it costs 1/3rd the price and runs way better!

BTW, GameGPU noted that VHQ cannot be turned on with 2GB VRAM GPUs.

Considering @ 1080p VHQ, 960 4GB, R9 380X 4GB, R9 280X 3GB managed 52-55 fps, it's just more proof on top of already piling evidence that 2GB GPUs are DOA for 2016. The mantra that keeps being repeated on this forum that 960-380X level cards aren't fast enough to benefit from more than 2GB of VRAM at 1080P is false.

 

[dogen1]

How quaint. You sure proved me wrong. *roll eyes*

It takes time and resources to fix a slow shader, thus no free lunch. I'm obviously not claiming optimization is impossible. .

I can play the straw man game too.

No straw man, that's just what it seemed like you were saying.

 

[gamervivek]

R9 Fury X is barely faster than a 970 or a 290X, wth?

Also the cpu comparison is not valid. They were using 980 SLI before and 980 Ti SLI now. Not the same thing.

Not really a surprise.

With everything turned up, 980 is 14% faster than Fury.

A lowered 'best quality' setting, Fury is 3% faster than 980.

All gameworks features disabled, Fury is 31% faster than 980.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2015/07/10/asus_strix_r9_fury_dc3_video_card_review/5#.VlyIey6deZ8

Also,

"When we lowered settings in this game to "Best Quality" lowering shadow map size to "Very High" and reducing the view distance to half we saw a large power increase out of the ASUS STRIX R9 Fury. How much you ask? 50 watts! That's right, by reducing settings the video card increased its total wattage by 50W. That means the video card was working harder and accelerating the game faster."

Fallout 4 continues the tradition.

 

[StrangerGuy]

That's why I do not understand how so many PC gamers defend poorly optimized launch PC games.

They enjoy getting ripped off and screwed left, right and center and are proud of it just because they can spend money in their little hobby.

 

[RussianSensation]

Not really a surprise.

Also,

"When we lowered settings in this game to "Best Quality" lowering shadow map size to "Very High" and reducing the view distance to half we saw a large power increase out of the ASUS STRIX R9 Fury. How much you ask? 50 watts! That's right, by reducing settings the video card increased its total wattage by 50W. That means the video card was working harder and accelerating the game faster."

Fallout 4 continues the tradition.

Where you implying GameWorks features crippling AMD cards again in Dying Light?

"Performance jumped up on the ASUS STRIX R9 Fury. The Fury is now 31% faster than the GeForce GTX 980. The setting holding back performance seems to be the NVIDIA Depth of Field in this game. The GTX 980 can render it much better, the Fury not so much."

It blows my mind how so many in the PC community are still in denial about the true purpose of GameWorks. If NV was only interested in making PC games look better, they would simply use open-source next gen graphical effects that Intel/AMD could easily optimize for but instead they go out of their way to create proprietary features.

Not really a surprise.

Fallout 4 continues the tradition.

Kingdom Come: Deliverance used VXGI Lighting (!). From the developer's notes:

"AMD Radeon R9 200, Intel i7 CPU, 1080p and highest quality settings.
Performance hit is about 3 fps (about 6%)"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEfqtOYjolE

FO4 uses a proprietary NV developed & highly unoptimized lighting system that manages to incur a massive performance hit. They Way You Are Meant to Upgrade!

They enjoy getting ripped off and screwed left, right and center and are proud of it just because they can spend money in their little hobby.

The closer to 30 fps cinematic experience @ 1080p on a flagship $650 card, the better!

 

[StrangerGuy]

The closer to 30 fps cinematic experience @ 1080p on a flagship $650 card, the better!

It's impressive how much games have evolved for the past half a decade, like impressively bad in terms of real world IQ gains and performance to hardware ratio.

Even my CS:GO FPS got cut by half for absolutely no good reason after an update, and that's done by a supposedly competent game dev. It's mind-boggling how much more powerful Wirth's Law is over Moore's Law.

 

[DarkKnightDude]

The closer to 30 fps cinematic experience @ 1080p on a flagship $650 card, the better!

Its hilarious with that performance the draw distance is terrible.

 

[Udgnim]

It's impressive how much games have evolved for the past half a decade, like impressively bad in terms of real world IQ gains and performance to hardware ratio.

Even my CS:GO FPS got cut by half for absolutely no good reason after an update, and that's done by a supposedly competent game dev. It's mind-boggling how much more powerful Wirth's Law is over Moore's Law.

the CS:GO update reset in-game graphic settings

 

[tential]

They enjoy getting ripped off and screwed left, right and center and are proud of it just because they can spend money in their little hobby.

People just want to be on the winning team no matter what lol.

 

[Headfoot]

I specifically held off buying Dying Light because of the performance issues at launch. Now that they're resolved and its on sale on Steam, I'll pick it up for $20 instead of $60 at launch.

 

[Snafuh]

The closer to 30 fps cinematic experience @ 1080p on a flagship $650 card, the better!

After Crysis Pc gamer wanted demanding games. Now we have demanding games and people are crying because they can't max out games anymore.
On Very High you will get almost double the frame rate. I though PC gamer love the ability to customize but it seems like they want to crank everything up.
Even a gtx 950 gets 37 min fps and 41 average.
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Assassin-s-Creed-Syndicate-Notebook-Benchmarks.154621.0.html

 

[railven]

After Crysis Pc gamer wanted demanding games. Now we have demanding games and people are crying because they can't max out games anymore.
On Very High you will get almost double the frame rate. I though PC gamer love the ability to customize but it seems like they want to crank everything up.
Even a gtx 950 gets 37 min fps and 41 average.
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Assassin-s-Creed-Syndicate-Notebook-Benchmarks.154621.0.html

This is a new generation of PC gamers. And who is paying $60 for a PC game in the US? There are multiple options to save 20-40% off these games day 1.

 

[frozentundra123456]

I dont think anyone is getting 40% off on day one for the biggest releases. Maybe 15 to 20%. I certainly dont think there was anyplace giving 40% off of FO4 on day one. And also, a lot of the discounts force you to pre-order, which I prefer not to do anymore after getting burned on a few games.

 

[tential]

This is a new generation of PC gamers. And who is paying $60 for a PC game in the US? There are multiple options to save 20-40% off these games day 1.

You guys need to stop thinking thay because you're aware of sales the average gamer is. Most gamers are literally borderline sub human when it comes to finding good deals or knowledge of pc hardware.

 

[railven]

I dont think anyone is getting 40% off on day one for the biggest releases. Maybe 15 to 20%. I certainly dont think there was anyplace giving 40% off of FO4 on day one. And also, a lot of the discounts force you to pre-order, which I prefer not to do anymore after getting burned on a few games.

True about the pre-order portion, but that is just using the system in your favor. For example, I pre-ordered Fallout 4 the day before it released, got 20% from my Gamer Clubs membership, +5% back in points for using my Rewards card, +$10 for pre-ordering (with no time cut off at Best Buy, you can basically pre-order the night before and still get all their offers, did it with Destiny for PS4 too same deal, except I got 10% back that time).

Now this isn't all upfront saving, but it is no different then buying something with a Mail-In Rebate.

I too have been burned, by lots of games, and now since most are tied to steam regardless where you buy it, I've sworn to never buy a PC game full price again.

You guys need to stop thinking thay because you're aware of sales the average gamer is. Most gamers are literally borderline sub human when it comes to finding good deals or knowledge of pc hardware.

The "average" gamer is very much aware of sales and offers. Any good gamer has a Best Buy Gamer's Club Membership, especially now that it's $30 for a 2 year membership. You auto-save 20% off any new purchase and get double points back in rewards, more if you use a Best Buy credit card. I don't know if Best Buy is stupid or a genius for this because they've basically lured me away from Amazon/Steam for day 1 purchases on games I just have to have.

Beside that, hovels for "average" gamers such as NeoGaf almost cream themselves linking to sales/deals/etc. As someone who doesn't scour the internet for hours, sites such as CheapAssGamer and NeoGaf are gold mines for deals.

EDIT: I want to state that my observation on this is mostly for software. For hardware, it seems these sites aren't as effective. Also, suggestions in regards to what hardware to buy, forum wars don't really persuade people from what I've seen.

 

[Magee_MC]

After Crysis Pc gamer wanted demanding games. Now we have demanding games and people are crying because they can't max out games anymore.
On Very High you will get almost double the frame rate. I though PC gamer love the ability to customize but it seems like they want to crank everything up.
Even a gtx 950 gets 37 min fps and 41 average.
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Assassin-s-Creed-Syndicate-Notebook-Benchmarks.154621.0.html

I agree that PC gamers wanted demanding games, however instead of games that demand top performace to push cutting edge visual quality, they got games that demand top performance in order to receive worse visual quality than Crysis and other games. Poor optimization paired with poor quality visuals, or performance hits for no perceivable visual gain is what gamers are upset with.

 

[Arachnotronic]

I agree that PC gamers wanted demanding games, however instead of games that demand top performace to push cutting edge visual quality, they got games that demand top performance in order to receive worse visual quality than Crysis and other games. Poor optimization paired with poor quality visuals, or performance hits for no perceivable visual gain is what gamers are upset with.

Go back and play Crysis 1, it doesn't look as good as that Assassin's Creed video that RS linked IMO.

 

[frozentundra123456]

True about the pre-order portion, but that is just using the system in your favor. For example, I pre-ordered Fallout 4 the day before it released, got 20% from my Gamer Clubs membership, +5% back in points for using my Rewards card, +$10 for pre-ordering (with no time cut off at Best Buy, you can basically pre-order the night before and still get all their offers, did it with Destiny for PS4 too same deal, except I got 10% back that time).

Now this isn't all upfront saving, but it is no different then buying something with a Mail-In Rebate.

I too have been burned, by lots of games, and now since most are tied to steam regardless where you buy it, I've sworn to never buy a PC game full price again.



The "average" gamer is very much aware of sales and offers. Any good gamer has a Best Buy Gamer's Club Membership, especially now that it's $30 for a 2 year membership. You auto-save 20% off any new purchase and get double points back in rewards, more if you use a Best Buy credit card. I don't know if Best Buy is stupid or a genius for this because they've basically lured me away from Amazon/Steam for day 1 purchases on games I just have to have.

Beside that, hovels for "average" gamers such as NeoGaf almost cream themselves linking to sales/deals/etc. As someone who doesn't scour the internet for hours, sites such as CheapAssGamer and NeoGaf are gold mines for deals.

EDIT: I want to state that my observation on this is mostly for software. For hardware, it seems these sites aren't as effective. Also, suggestions in regards to what hardware to buy, forum wars don't really persuade people from what I've seen.

Interesting, did not know about the Best Buy Gamer's club. I have a Best Buy card as well, but seldom use it.

 

[tential]

Interesting, did not know about the Best Buy Gamer's club. I have a Best Buy card as well, but seldom use it.

Exactly my point. Not everyone knows of these deals just because some people here might.

 

[Arachnotronic]

It blows my mind how so many in the PC community are still in denial about the true purpose of GameWorks. If NV was only interested in making PC games look better, they would simply use open-source next gen graphical effects that Intel/AMD could easily optimize for but instead they go out of their way to create proprietary features.

The purpose of GameWorks is to make games look better (particularly on NVIDIA hardware) and consume more graphical horsepower in order to accelerate GPU upgrade cycles.

Developers accept it because PC ports are already so low on the totem pole in terms of developer resources that it's a quick and cheap way for them to make PC games look better than their console counterparts without having to invest much to do so.

 

[3DVagabond]

The purpose of GameWorks is to make games look better (particularly on NVIDIA hardware) and consume more graphical horsepower in order to accelerate GPU upgrade cycles.

Developers accept it because PC ports are already so low on the totem pole in terms of developer resources that it's a quick and cheap way for them to make PC games look better than their console counterparts without having to invest much to do so.

How good does Batman AK look? They added GW PC features and broke the game. Witcher was forced to include the option of turning down hairworks because it destroyed performance. The purpose of Gameworks is to tilt the playing field nVidia's way. It's not to make games look better. SW/BF is about making a good looking game.

 

[dogen1]

How good does Batman AK look? They added GW PC features and broke the game.

I don't own it, but from what I've seen it looks excellent.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/138355027@N06/sets/72157661757820572/with/23468763455/

The performance problems are still there with gameworks disabled, and more likely related to streaming or timing.