Game Day Thread: Iowa Caucuses

[Fanatical Meat]

More Bro post preparing an excuse.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

More Bro post preparing an excuse.

View attachment 16918

I’m going to guess if Bernie doesn’t do well in NH it is because Charter being a big company purposely caused and outage but they didn’t want to make it obvious so they had the outage happen hours before the debate so it could be fixed in time for the debate but people wouldn’t know it was fixes until after the debate. That way the plan to sabotage Bernie isn’t too obvious.

Did I get it right?

 

[IronWing]

So that's what Mike Gravel was doing in Uzbekistan.

 

[ch33zw1z]

More Bro post preparing an excuse.

View attachment 16918

I’m going to guess if Bernie doesn’t do well in NH it is because Charter being a big company purposely caused and outage but they didn’t want to make it obvious so they had the outage happen hours before the debate so it could be fixed in time for the debate but people wouldn’t know it was fixes until after the debate. That way the plan to sabotage Bernie isn’t too obvious.

Did I get it right?

Certainly a situation that is ripe for conspiracy. Odd that the outage was that extensive. ISP's being down that widespread isn't the usual.

 

[Jhhnn]

I'm talking about the ineptitude of the dems. For all of the 'mountains' of credible evidence against Trump, all we got was that debacle that Schiff and Nadler took to the Senate. Take your hatred for Trump out of the equation for a least a few minutes and think. If that 'evidence' was presented in a real court, the judge would've thrown out the case.

But back on topic. You the dems should be embarrassed at the farce that Iowa turned out to be. Third world countries do a better job. They deserved to be mocked. And if you can't stand back and objectively admit that, you and the other Ds on here have a serious problem. But whenever I point out that the holy and righteous Ds have issues, all I get is whiny little brats crying about their hurt feels. At least some on this thread are poking fun at the IA mess, and good on them.

Whatever. Peace out.

You're living in a state of Denial about Trump. Not that you can possibly see it, but it needs to be pointed out. The actual events are not in question & the motivation is obvious.

The structural problems of the Iowa caucus affect both parties. The 2012 caucus was as much a cock-up for the GOP as 2020 was for the Dems.

 

[nakedfrog]

I had Charter/Spectrum when I moved into this place a couple years ago, consistently had at least one outage per month. Dropped them after six months.

 

[feralkid]

dp

 

[feralkid]

I'm talking about the ineptitude of the dems. For all of the 'mountains' of credible evidence against Trump, all we got was that debacle that Schiff and Nadler took to the Senate. Take your hatred for Trump out of the equation for a least a few minutes and think. If that 'evidence' was presented in a real court, the judge would've thrown out the case.

Orange Kool-Aid is a helluva drug apparently.

Evidence was strong and irrefutable; just not stronger than Republican partisanship.

 

[Blackjack200]

That may be, but it won't matter to detractors. Serious question, what part of his politics do you not like?

Having shitty politics won't matter to detractors? I don't even understand what that's supposed to mean.

Anyway, Pete became a Naval officer through the direct commission program, which is essentially a loophole that politically connected people use to become an officer without having to go to an academy or OCS. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_commission_officer (This is the same program that was used to make Hunter Biden an officer). He then went on a 7 month Safari to Afghanistan where he did nothing of note for the obvious purpose of padding his political resume.

His campaign openly welcomes billionaire donors, and he is running one of the most cynical campaigns I've seen in a while. He supported Medicare for all early on to get some traction, and has now abandoned it and adopted right wing talking points in supporting an "alternative".

To be honest, I'm not sure he has any politics at all. Can you tell me one thing the guy actually believes in?

 

[ch33zw1z]

Having shitty politics won't matter to detractors? I don't even understand what that's supposed to mean.

It meant that IMO his conservative detractors are guaranteed to focus a good amount of attention on his openly homosexual lifestyle, as it will certainly sway voters

I haven't seen this debunked yet, but its a good example of what he'll face.

Video shows Iowa caucus-goer trying to change her vote after learning Pete Buttigieg is gay

"I guess what I would like you to do is just dig deep inside and think, should it matter?" a patient caucus worker replied.

www.cbsnews.com

Anyway, Pete became a Naval officer through the direct commission program, which is essentially a loophole that politically connected people use to become an officer without having to go to an academy or OCS. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_commission_officer (This is the same program that was used to make Hunter Biden an officer). He then went on a 7 month Safari to Afghanistan where he did nothing of note for the obvious purpose of padding his political resume.

The DCO program thing is fine with me. The military's typical enlistment is not for everyone. I wouldn't even be allowed due to medical reasons. Really, I didn't even know what the DCO was until Pete! lol

His campaign openly welcomes billionaire donors, and he is running one of the most cynical campaigns I've seen in a while. He supported Medicare for all early on to get some traction, and has now abandoned it and adopted right wing talking points in supporting an "alternative".

It does seem he changed from "Medicare for all" to "Medicare for all who want it". Although, if you go to his website and read about it, it could be a good "alternative" that can sway voters that typically decry Medicare as socialism. Give them an option and then show them it works.

To be honest, I'm not sure he has any politics at all. Can you tell me one thing the guy actually believes in?

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that. Based on what I've read and what he says, he seems to be a candidate that fills the gray area between centrist establishment Democrats and the far left. His stated policies are common in the Democratic party. Health care for all, addressing climate change and making it work for our economy, an actual focus on public education.

I don't claim to be an expert by any stretch, but I'll vote for the guy if he's the D nominee, no problem.

 

[fskimospy]

It meant that IMO his conservative detractors are guaranteed to focus a good amount of attention on his openly homosexual lifestyle, as it will certainly sway voters

I haven't seen this debunked yet, but its a good example of what he'll face.

Video shows Iowa caucus-goer trying to change her vote after learning Pete Buttigieg is gay

"I guess what I would like you to do is just dig deep inside and think, should it matter?" a patient caucus worker replied.

www.cbsnews.com

The DCO program thing is fine with me. The military's typical enlistment is not for everyone. I wouldn't even be allowed due to medical reasons. Really, I didn't even know what the DCO was until Pete! lol

Also while he wasn't a front line soldier his deployment certainly wasn't without any danger - it was probably more dangerous than most Navy deployments on ships. Attempting to denigrate his military service just makes people look petty and small.

It does seem he changed from "Medicare for all" to "Medicare for all who want it". Although, if you go to his website and read about it, it could be a good "alternative" that can sway voters that typically decry Medicare as socialism. Give them an option and then show them it works.

If Democrats are smart they will adopt Pete's position as it defuses the primary attack Republicans will use against Medicare for all and will basically serve as a long-term backdoor into the program covering everyone.

I don't know how people don't realize this but saying 'we're going to eliminate private insurance' is one of the dumbest campaign slogans of all time. People are extremely loss-averse and generally like the coverage they have, even though our system sucks. Any campaign position that doesn't take that into account is going to get absolutely lit up during the campaign. Have people already forgotten 2009 and 2010?

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that. Based on what I've read and what he says, he seems to be a candidate that fills the gray area between centrist establishment Democrats and the far left. His stated policies are common in the Democratic party. Health care for all, addressing climate change and making it work for our economy, an actual focus on public education.

I don't claim to be an expert by any stretch, but I'll vote for the guy if he's the D nominee, no problem.

Yes, I am to the left of our good friend Pete overall but I would have no problem voting for him. He's a perfectly fine centrist option.

 

[Blackjack200]

It meant that IMO his conservative detractors are guaranteed to focus a good amount of attention on his openly homosexual lifestyle, as it will certainly sway voters

I haven't seen this debunked yet, but its a good example of what he'll face.

Video shows Iowa caucus-goer trying to change her vote after learning Pete Buttigieg is gay

"I guess what I would like you to do is just dig deep inside and think, should it matter?" a patient caucus worker replied.

www.cbsnews.com

What's "openly homosexual" about his lifestyle? He's married and as far as I can tell he lives like a goddamn Shaker. That he probably hasn't had sex since his wedding night might be the most relatable thing about him.

The DCO program thing is fine with me. The military's typical enlistment is not for everyone. I wouldn't even be allowed due to medical reasons. Really, I didn't even know what the DCO was until Pete! lol

You're fine that he used a program that literally exists to get politically connected people a commission, and cynically used it to pad his political resume. Man, it really just puts the lie to everyone who pretends to care about Trump's corruption. They have absolutely no issue with it when it's their own guy doing it.

It does seem he changed from "Medicare for all" to "Medicare for all who want it". Although, if you go to his website and read about it, it could be a good "alternative" that can sway voters that typically decry Medicare as socialism. Give them an option and then show them it works.

Your missing the point, the point is that he doesn't actually believe in anything. He adopted the "Medicare for all who want it position" because that's what industry wants. He doesn't give two shits about that or any other policy.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that. Based on what I've read and what he says, he seems to be a candidate that fills the gray area between centrist establishment Democrats and the far left. His stated policies are common in the Democratic party. Health care for all, addressing climate change and making it work for our economy, an actual focus on public education.

I don't claim to be an expert by any stretch, but I'll vote for the guy if he's the D nominee, no problem.

So by your own admission, he has absolutely nothing to offer except for lip service to boilerplate Democratic party agenda. An agenda, by the way, that is rooted in Bernie Sanders 2016 platform.

 

[fskimospy]

What's "openly homosexual" about his lifestyle? He's married and as far as I can tell he lives like a goddamn Shaker. That he probably hasn't had sex since his wedding night might be the most relatable thing about him.

Stay classy.

 

[K1052]

If Democrats are smart they will adopt Pete's position as it defuses the primary attack Republicans will use against Medicare for all and will basically serve as a long-term backdoor into the program covering everyone.

I don't know how people don't realize this but saying 'we're going to eliminate private insurance' is one of the dumbest campaign slogans of all time. People are extremely loss-averse and generally like the coverage they have, even though our system sucks. Any campaign position that doesn't take that into account is going to get absolutely lit up during the campaign. Have people already forgotten 2009 and 2010?

There is a reason that "public option" trounces M4A in every poll.

At the end of the day even a Dem senate is fairly unlikely to pass M4A. They could well pass a public option and a medicaid buy in at reduced age thresholds. Even Bernie would likely have to settle for this and would.

Still I'm not entirely certain that Bernie's position is really that indefensible in the general. Lots of people are super pissed about healthcare costs and he can capitalize on that. Trump standing up there defending his record of rising premiums, provider costs, drug costs, pushing people to worthless insurance plans, and repeated (plus an ongoing) attempts to topple the ACA isn't probably ultimately good for his re-elect. Yes he'll cry socialism but what if most people don't actually give a shit what he calls it. The vast majority of the country doesn't trust him or the GOP with health policy.

 

[fskimospy]

There is a reason that "public option" trounces M4A in every poll.

At the end of the day even a Dem senate is fairly unlikely to pass M4A. They could well pass a public option and a medicaid buy in at reduced age thresholds. Even Bernie would likely have to settle for this and would.

I agree and this is the primary advantage to Sanders' position - when he stakes out something more extreme to begin with then he can 'compromise' with a more liberal bill. If you start off in the center-left like Mayor Pete you probably have to go further to the right.

Still I'm not entirely certain that Bernie's position is really that indefensible in the general. Lots of people are super pissed about healthcare costs and he can capitalize on that. Trump standing up there defending his record of rising premiums, provider costs, drug costs, pushing people to worthless insurance plans, and repeated (plus an ongoing) attempts to topple the ACA isn't probably ultimately good for his re-elect. Yes he'll cry socialism but what if most people don't actually give a shit what he calls it. The vast majority of the country doesn't trust him or the GOP with health policy.

I am very confident that Bernie's position will be a major general election liability as the Republicans will simply dust off the 2009-2010 playbook and say to everyone 'if you vote for this guy kiss your doctor goodbye'. They will of course probably say that regardless of what the Democratic plan is but unfortunately with M4A it has the virtue of being plausibly true for some people. That's a bad thing to campaign on!

People are loss averse and the prospect of losing what they have is terrifying to them, even if the end result is something better as I agree M4A would be. If you go the Mayor Pete route we will likely achieve the same ends, just more slowly.

 

[ch33zw1z]

What's "openly homosexual" about his lifestyle? He's married and as far as I can tell he lives like a goddamn Shaker. That he probably hasn't had sex since his wedding night might be the most relatable thing about him.

It means that he's not in the closet, that's it. This statement from you leads me to believe that you think being open is the same as being stereo-typically flamboyant, or maybe like teenagers who can't keep their hands off each other.

You're fine that he used a program that literally exists to get politically connected people a commission, and cynically used it to pad his political resume. Man, it really just puts the lie to everyone who pretends to care about Trump's corruption. They have absolutely no issue with it when it's their own guy doing it.

I don't see how you can compare Trumps lifelong history of corruption with the DCO and maintain a straight face.

Your missing the point, the point is that he doesn't actually believe in anything. He adopted the "Medicare for all who want it position" because that's what industry wants. He doesn't give two shits about that or any other policy.

I think, based on his actions as Mayor of South Bend, his accomplishments, this isn't necessarily fair to say at all. The D's need a candidate who can fend off the attacks from conservatives.

So by your own admission, he has absolutely nothing to offer except for lip service to boilerplate Democratic party agenda. An agenda, by the way, that is rooted in Bernie Sanders 2016 platform.

I certainly don't mind a candidate being fluid with their platform as long as they stay left of centrist D's. That's imperative to winning the election, as the differences of the electorate in the Democratic party are pretty big compared to conservatives.

Yea, I voted for Bernie in 2016. Before you yell at me, I'm in MA and was very confident my state would go HRC, and I was right. I support both Bernie's platform and Pete's. I would love to see Bernie win and Pete be his VP.

 

[woolfe9998]

Your missing the point, the point is that he doesn't actually believe in anything. He adopted the "Medicare for all who want it position" because that's what industry wants. He doesn't give two shits about that or any other policy.

Which "industry" wants the government to start selling Medicare to the masses? The private insurance industry, who can't compete and will be shoved into a tiny niche to sell platinum insurance to rich people? Is it the medical providers who will see lower reimbursement rates for care? Or is it big pharma who will get paid less for their drugs?

Which industry?

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Also while he wasn't a front line soldier his deployment certainly wasn't without any danger - it was probably more dangerous than most Navy deployments on ships. Attempting to denigrate his military service just makes people look petty and small.



If Democrats are smart they will adopt Pete's position as it defuses the primary attack Republicans will use against Medicare for all and will basically serve as a long-term backdoor into the program covering everyone.

I don't know how people don't realize this but saying 'we're going to eliminate private insurance' is one of the dumbest campaign slogans of all time. People are extremely loss-averse and generally like the coverage they have, even though our system sucks. Any campaign position that doesn't take that into account is going to get absolutely lit up during the campaign. Have people already forgotten 2009 and 2010?



Yes, I am to the left of our good friend Pete overall but I would have no problem voting for him. He's a perfectly fine centrist option.

Yup, I’m fine with Pete.

Sadly Biden is the guy I thought him to be.
Post being VP he really wanted to Ben retired and just focus on things he wants to be involved with. He was pressured to run again and I feel he just doesn’t have it in him.
My opinion could change but as of now above is how I feel.

 

[brycejones]

What's "openly homosexual" about his lifestyle? He's married and as far as I can tell he lives like a goddamn Shaker. That he probably hasn't had sex since his wedding night might be the most relatable thing about him.

For someone who claims to be liberal/progressive/left of whoever this statement of yours is in incredibly poor taste. Can you grow up and discuss things like an adult? You were asked specifically what you hated about his politics and have proceeded to produce one non-response after another.

What policies does he have in his platform that you disagree with? What does not advocate for that you wish he would? Instead of emotional ranting about his sexuality you should be able to answer these simple questions.

Or is his problem he isn't Bernie regardless of his positions?

 

[zinfamous]

Hey Dems. I'm laughing at the superior intellect. You can't run an election and you can't even come up with credible evidence to convict Trump. And I'll repeat, yet again, that I'm not a Trumpista. Do a search if you don't believe me.

It's OK.

We don't have to do a search to know why we still don't believe you.

 

[ivwshane]

For someone who claims to be liberal/progressive/left of whoever this statement of yours is in incredibly poor taste. Can you grow up and discuss things like an adult? You were asked specifically what you hated about his politics and have proceeded to produce one non-response after another.

What policies does he have in his platform that you disagree with? What does not advocate for that you wish he would? Instead of emotional ranting about his sexuality you should be able to answer these simple questions.

Or is his problem he isn't Bernie regardless of his positions?

For a democrat he seems hell bent on tearing anyone down that’s not Bernie.

He’s either gone full retard or full on troll at this point.

 

[Blackjack200]

It means that he's not in the closet, that's it. This statement from you leads me to believe that you think being open is the same as being stereo-typically flamboyant, or maybe like teenagers who can't keep their hands off each other.

That's not a lifestyle. My point is that his lifestyle is very straight-laced. When you say "openly homosexual lifestyle" that evokes promiscuous and demonstrative behavior. That's not what pete is.

I don't see how you can compare Trumps lifelong history of corruption with the DCO and maintain a straight face.

Because corruption is fine when your guy does it, but not the other guy.

I think, based on his actions as Mayor of South Bend, his accomplishments, this isn't necessarily fair to say at all. The D's need a candidate who can fend off the attacks from conservatives.

Pete can't even fend off attacks from Amy Klobuchar.

I certainly don't mind a candidate being fluid with their platform as long as they stay left of centrist D's. That's imperative to winning the election, as the differences of the electorate in the Democratic party are pretty big compared to conservatives.

Yea, I voted for Bernie in 2016. Before you yell at me, I'm in MA and was very confident my state would go HRC, and I was right. I support both Bernie's platform and Pete's. I would love to see Bernie win and Pete be his VP.

I'm glad you voted for Bernie in 2016 and I hope you do again. I'm just sharing what I find odious about Mayor Pete.[/QUOTE]

 

[zinfamous]

If that 'evidence' was presented in a real court, the judge would've thrown out the case.

Resoundingly incorrect. A "Real court" where "trials" happen, would have also included witnesses.

it's any wonder that the Republicans refused to call any of the witnesses that they claimed could refute all of the evidence.

I wonder why that is? Apparently you don't care.

lol that you think we could believe you aren't a trumphumper.

 

[Blackjack200]

Stay classy.

Whatever you say Der Spiegel man.

 

[Blackjack200]

Which "industry" wants the government to start selling Medicare to the masses? The private insurance industry, who can't compete and will be shoved into a tiny niche to sell platinum insurance to rich people? Is it the medical providers who will see lower reimbursement rates for care? Or is it big pharma who will get paid less for their drugs?

Which industry?

The insurance companies and medical providers (including pharma). They're fighting a rearguard action and they know that Pete's position is the least reform they can realistically get away with.