G-Sync - VG248QE Color Accuracy/Calibration

[MonarchX]

Hi! I joined because I remember seeing some G-Sync threads on these forums about G-Sync, but I have some specific questions. I bought VG248QE for fast-paced MP games, but I use my VT60 plssma for SP games. Obviously, the image quality difference between the plasma screen and the TN screen is huge. I kind of hate VG248QE color accuracy...

I am also an experienced calibrator and in the process of launching a website to start calibrating displays professionally. I use i1Pro (certified) and profile i1Display Pro with i1Pro to measure displays. I am really interested to know if someone out there has similar equipment and had taken any CalMAN RGB/5, HCFR, or whichever program measurements of the regular LightBoost and ULBM G-Sync modes? What about the original standard and the new G-sync modes?

I keep hearing that G-Sync considerably improves color accuracy of VG248QE and I care more for that then I care for the G-Sync, but I do care for it too. I already have a plasma for high quality, but I also want good quality in MP games and very high refresh rates.

Some say that G-Sync only makes the ULBM mode use the same colors as the original or new G-Sync (non-LightBoost) mode. I am not sure what to believe. I am finding calibrating of this monitor without G-Sync in both modes quite problematic. I apologize in advance if I sound like I'm trying to educate an already knowledgeable community.

Some issues I had:

1. You absolutely have to have an accurate spectrometer in addition to a colorimeter to make accurate measurements because colorimeters use manufacturer reference display type tables, but these reference display types may differ from your own display. So, its kind of hard to judge results other than those obtained with the right equipment...

2. No matter whether I profiled or whether I used CalMAN 5/RGB, i1Profiler (terrible...), or even the new king in town - ArgyllCMS, I kept getting bad WB accuracy for the darker/black region in LightBoost mode. The squares in this test were never neutral and always had either a red/brown, green, or purple tint - http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php . TVs have manual WB controls, so I can always correct dark grays and blacks and make them neutral, but it is not possible with software LUTs/ICC profiles. I think it happened because of 2 things - LUT interpolation and bad uniformity. Thing is... non-calibrated blacks/dark grays even in non-G-sync LightBoost mode were somewhat neutral, so that meant uniformity was not the cause, leaving only one cause - LUT interpolation. LUT interpolation simply means that software did not calibrate each and every level of the 256 grayscale levels - it simply guessed some of them (incorrectly). Not even ArgyllCMS, which took more than hundred measurements, could provide neutral grays and blacks. Some were always reddish or greenish, etc. I never had a single TV like that...

3. I know that using any 8bit LUT will result in some grayscale gradient banding, but VG248QE calibration specifically results in purplish bands on the left upper and right lower areas of this ramp - http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/gradient.php - in the 0-7.5% of the blackest/darkest areas.

I am just wondering if anyone else had similar issues and had them solved by installing a G-Sync module. Did it allow you to have accurate/neutral blacks AFTER calibration in that Lagom.nl test link I provided? What about grayscale ramp gradient - any non-neutral bands after calibration?

What about the colorspace/color gamut?

I would SO SO SO appreciate if someone with i1Display Pro or Munki Display colorimeter could run a default, non-calibrated grayscale measurements of
1. Grayscale in 10% steps
2. RGBYCM 25, 50, 75, 100% saturation sweeps

using the latest HCFR - http://sourceforge.net/projects/hcfr/files/Windows/3.1.0.7/

 

[Venomous]

Take this for a drain of salt but I think since the gsync module takes over the actual board in the asus, you lose your ability to calibrate. The only thing I can suggest is going over to hardforums>Displays and checking out that asus thread there. There's already Icc color profiles made and see if you can force those calibrations. Maybe that will help you figure this out or at least know.

 

[RaulF]

Sorry to send you somewhere else, but look in blurbusters forums. There's a gsync section there.

http://forums.blurbusters.com/viewforum.php?f=5&sid=ce7db3662f5a0ee818ccc29d923ea154

If this is not ok admins, im sorry. Please feel free to remove the info.

 

[bystander36]

From what I understand, you can calibrate the monitor through Nvidia's drivers, but not on the monitor itself.

 

[MonarchX]

I am talking about LUT calibration, which is what ICC apply. You need a LUT/ICC for your exact monitor unit, not one of the same model, but yours specifically. Downloading ICC is almost worthless.

I have been at blurr-busters - there is no info there. I saw someone talk about pro calibration here, so....

 

[Venomous]

I am talking about LUT calibration, which is what ICC apply. You need a LUT/ICC for your exact monitor unit, not one of the same model, but yours specifically. Downloading ICC is almost worthless.

I have been at blurr-busters - there is no info there. I saw someone talk about pro calibration here, so....

It's a very niche thing for PC gamers to have properly calibrated displays.

 

[hans030390]

The VG248QE is one of the poorer looking, recent monitors I've used, and 2D Lightboost destroyed its contrast ratio.

I can't speak for what G-Sync will or will not do for the monitor, but this monitor is only good for the high refresh rate, clean motion (especially with 2D LB), input lag, etc.

It will always look weird compared to a good TN and is floored by a good IPS or plasma display. For motion clarity, though, it's a good buy.

 

[moonbogg]

I use the spyder pro calibrator. Would suck if I can't do it with the new asus monitor coming out. Don't see why you couldn't.

 

[Annisman*]

Check blur busters again, I got my display pretty well calibrated though I'm no calibration-file, there is a thread with some info

 

[benrbold]

-Hey guys, I have had my ASUS g-sync monitor now for about 6 months. I did the do it yourself install kit where I swapped the guts of the monitor out for the Nvidia DIY install kit.
Install notes: Pretty ez install. The brown clip that holds the ribbon cable in place to control the buttons was a bit tricky to get opened, but once opened, it was easy to get installed.
Monitor notes: Pretty nice looking monitor all in all. I stuck the large G-Sync logo sticker over the goofy looking #D logo on the base of the monitor. (More about the uselessness of 3D later in the post)
Before I get into color profiles and the numbers, lets take a quick look at my system specs:

AMD FX4350 Quad Core 4.2GHz - Processor
ASUS M5A99FX Pro R.2 – Motherboard
PNY GTX780 OC 3GB DDR5 – Graphics Card
Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2x4GB) dual channel running at 1600mHz – Memory
Antec 750 Watt - Power supply
ASUS VG248 24” panel with G-Sync DIY conversion – Monitor

The software to adjust the settings in the monitor is called SoftMCCS. It’s a free download and very easy to use. There are a number of posts on how to sue it. It is a free download from:
http://www.entechtaiwan.com/lib/softmccs.shtm

Refresh Rate:
Before we get to the color settings we need to discuss refresh rates. The refresh rate that the monitor is set at controls the saturation and color depth of the colors. The faster that the refresh rate is set at, the colors become more and more washed out. I initially ran the monitor at 144Hz when I first had it. I thought it looked terrible, and the reason why is that it did. At 144 frames per second, the colors are so washed out that even the darkest blacks look grey and most, if not all, contrast is lost in whites. So then I ran it at 120Hz for the last 5 months or so. I REALLY liked the increase in color depth going from 144 to 120, though I have to say, I was never able to get the colors exactly right. It always appeared washed out. Games looked great … the desktop always seemed greyed and washed out a bit. I color matched an old studio Samsung monitor that I had been using. I had never considered running this monitor at 60Hz… after all it’s a new high refresh rate monitor, right? …. I should run it at 120 for sure.
About 2 weeks ago I tried an experiment. Because the new Sid Meyers Beyond Earth game will not allow you to run a high refresh rate monitor in full screen, I tried dropping the refresh rate of the monitor to 60 HZ to test if that would let me run the game in full screen (the answer: it does not). But once I had switched the monitor to 60Hz, I couldn’t believe my eyes. All of the color depth that I was hoping for in this panel was finally there and blacks are JET black and whites, bright and poppy.
So … I began weighing the differences between 60HZ and 120HZ in a display and what I came up with is:
The choppiness and lagginess that gamers perceive in 60Hz gaming is not a product of the refresh rate. It is a product of the video card not being able to output constant frames out at a steady rate. G-Sync deals with this brilliantly and basically, long story short, if your system can run the game at 30Hz … that’s 30 frames per second, it will look flawless. No tearing, no stuttering, no input lag. Just super smooth games.
So then the big question presents itself: Is the hit in color saturation and color depth that the monitor suffers from when going from 60Hz to 120Hz worth the upgrade in terms of having more frames per second? Ahh yes, and that’s where our conversation turns to 3D. For desktop graphics, 120Hz is completely useless. Even the highest refresh rate moves are 60Hz. (Hollywood standard is 48FPS and the new youtube HFR(high frame rate) standard is 60FPS. Then why the recent TV’s that do 120Hz or even 144hz? …. The answer is 3D. A 3d image (in active 3D like on a computer with powered glasses) is actually 2 concurrent 60Hz images running in alternating frames. The glasses have a lens that is actually a fast refresh rate LCD that puts up a black image on alternating frames only allowing one of the 2 alternating images through to each eye. The viewer is then able to see a different image in each eye. Thus needing a 120Hz refresh rate to accommodate the 60Hz movie shown in 3D.
Ok … what else is 120Hz for? … Gaming in 120Hz is exactly the same gaming experience, but you are getting more frames per second. In my experience, the human eye is not able to detect the difference between 60 images a second or 120 images a second. BUT…. The human eye is able to easily detect the difference between washed out colors and bland looking blacks. >> So then the big question presents itself: Is the hit in color saturation and color depth that the monitor suffers from going from 60Hz to 120Hz worth the upgrade in terms of having more frames per second? << I offer no.
I have gone back to games that I have played in the last few months and marvel at how much better they look in 60Hz than 120Hz. Even the loading screens look better because the blacks are true black …. The colors pop … just on the verge of oversaturation, but they look GREAT! As long as the GPU can keep up more than 30 frames per second, the game is absolutely smooth and perfect looking.
Ok ok … color settings: This monitor can be very bright. The way that it is set out of the box was terrible. But trying to battle the overbrightness with the luminance slider doesn’t work well. It greys out the image a lot. The best way to battle the brightness it to lower the contrast slider to about 55. At 55, the middle greys show up and you see definition in light greys and whites. The lower the luminance a bit to get it where you like the brightness. If you lower the contrast slider less than 50, nothing happens, the contrast slider only appears to work from 51 to 100.
The balances of each color are a bit of preference, but it’s important that they are not super out of wack. The ones that I list here I have been using now for 2 weeks since I went to 60Hz and it looks amazing. I can really say this is the best looking monitor I have ever owned. I had a studio IPS panel monitor before, but it was really slow and blurry in movement.

Luminance: 82
Contrast: 55
User 1: check
Red Video Gain: 87
Green Video Gain: 80
Blue Video Gain: 60

Refresh Rate of the monitor: 60Hz

http://xxx.freeimage.us/share.php?id=29E8_5470F13D

Please let me know what you guys think. benrbold@yahoo.com
-Ben

 

[bystander36]

The new color adjustments of the G-sync module in the VG248QE's is not about helping normal calibration. It prevents the odd color that happens with Lightboost (now ULMB). ULMB no longer washes out the colors or gives it a red or blue tint. I believe this also applies to variable refresh rates. Having inconsistent fresh rates also effects the color.

But this new module does not fix the general color accuracy of the monitor itself.

 

[Annisman*]

Yeah that's great and all but you are really taking away one of the biggest advantages of all those extra hz. However, if you can't tell much of a difference go for it, for me the extra hz far far FAR outweighs the color accuracy.

 

[hawtdawg]

I dont think that color accuracy is all that important for games really. I sincerely doubt that any video game out there is graded for color accuracy on a calibrated display.

Also, I don't think that color management works well (or at all) with a lot of games. If you wanted to calibrate g-sync using the OSD though, I would imagine that using MadVR's exclusive mode to display patches might allow you to do it, though probably not with variable framerates (maybe doing runs with different NNEDI3 settings to tank the framerate, might give you an idea of what kind of variance there is?).

I dont really know anything about g-sync monitors though, so im mostly just thinking outloud

 

[kasakka]

Most games don't even support ICC profiles in any form so it's best to have a display that allows fairly accurate controls just with the display's own controls. I don't think G-Sync should have any effect on color calibration other than if it replaces a previous controller in a display (which might have different settings etc).

 

[benrbold]

The color correction process I spoke about is not an ICC profile. It's true that most games don't even use them and it's a pain in the ass. SoftMCCS sets the hard settings inside the monitor. For instance, if i set my monitor with specific, brightness contrast and colors, then plug it into another computer, the settings are still set. It's a setting inside the monitor, not just a software setting like using the nvidia control panel.

-Ben
benrbold@yahoo.com