FYI - Halo 3 'Heroic Map Pack' becomes free on Tuesday

[Modeps]

Originally posted by: TallBill
I paid for them. I won't be buying the next map pack in April.

:thumbsup:

 

[IceBergSLiM]

Originally posted by: EvilComputer92

Originally posted by: Sawyer
Well that is great of them, but you can't expect that from everyone else.

Why not? These people are doing it for free and in their own time and producing much more than only maps. People who are getting paid and who already are rolling in cash from a multi million game should be giving back something to the community. Not that they ever will do it, as MS will be milking every $ out of the Halo franchise to death.

Goto work tomorrow and tell your boss to stop paying you.

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: Sawyer
People today have this annoying entitlement attitude.

Paying for maps is stupid, because of a simple fact that not everyone will buy them and if someone doesn't have the map, you can't use it. If you play with your friends and they don't have it, good luck using it.

So congratulations, you end up wasting your money when you can't even use it half the time unless you specifically look for games with that map.

I have no problem with making money for what you do, but you gotta realize that putting out a pivotal match creation variable like a map that not everyone will have will only cause segregation. Same thing happened in Gears of War before the maps went free~.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim

Originally posted by: EvilComputer92

Originally posted by: Sawyer
Well that is great of them, but you can't expect that from everyone else.

Why not? These people are doing it for free and in their own time and producing much more than only maps. People who are getting paid and who already are rolling in cash from a multi million game should be giving back something to the community. Not that they ever will do it, as MS will be milking every $ out of the Halo franchise to death.

Goto work tomorrow and tell your boss to stop paying you.

Yeah, give something back to your employer's "community." :laugh:

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Aikouka

Originally posted by: Sawyer
People today have this annoying entitlement attitude.

Paying for maps is stupid, because of a simple fact that not everyone will buy them and if someone doesn't have the map, you can't use it. If you play with your friends and they don't have it, good luck using it.

So congratulations, you end up wasting your money when you can't even use it half the time unless you specifically look for games with that map.

I have no problem with making money for what you do, but you gotta realize that putting out a pivotal match creation variable like a map that not everyone will have will only cause segregation. Same thing happened in Gears of War before the maps went free~.

You say that like it's a big deal. 😕 There are two playlists for the DLC maps, so you can play them whenever you want.

Only one of my friends did not buy the maps. The 2 dozen or so people I usually play with when I play custom games all bought them.

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: mugs
You say that like it's a big deal. 😕 There are two playlists for the DLC maps, so you can play them whenever you want.

And yet again if your friends happen to not have them and you want to play with them? I guess you're just shit out of luck.

But what am I saying!? Mugs' super awesome baker's dozen friends pretty much all bought the map pack and we know how statistically significant that is!

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Aikouka

Originally posted by: mugs
You say that like it's a big deal. 😕 There are two playlists for the DLC maps, so you can play them whenever you want.

And yet again if your friends happen to not have them and you want to play with them? I guess you're just shit out of luck.

But what am I saying!? Mugs' super awesome baker's dozen friends pretty much all bought the map pack and we know how statistically significant that is!

Then you play on the maps without your friends. Or don't buy them yourself. :Q

Maybe you should read your own post and read mine in the context of yours, because you completely misinterpreted what I said in the second paragraph. :roll:

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: mugs
Maybe you should read your own post and read mine in the context of yours, because you completely misinterpreted what I said in the second paragraph. :roll:

Uhh I said that it segregates people and you posted some evidence that supposedly it's not true because only two of your custom map buddies didn't buy the map pack. Statistical significance ftw :roll:.

 

[bucwylde23]

I"m with Aikouka about map packs segregating players.

The same thing happened with the R6:Vegas black/red packs.

I bought both of them, and up until a week before R6:V2 came out, the black/red pack maps were HARDLY used, at all. When we did try to get games going in them, no one would join.

Even when the black/red map packs became FREE, it was still hard to get game going on those maps.

I don't mind them charging for their work, but I still think it's stupid. I don't know a solution I just know I don't like it.

 

[EvilComputer92]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: EvilComputer92

Originally posted by: blurredvision

Originally posted by: EvilComputer92
Even though I play this game a lot I refused to pay $10 to MS for 3 maps. They should have been free from the start.

These 3 maps were made after the game was released. The people making these maps have got to get paid for something. When's the last time you were asked to do hours upon hours of free work and gladly obliged?

The last time was when I created maps for Unreal Tournament.

Ever thought about the people who make total conversions and mods for games who put in hundreds of hours into their work and release it for no cost to the public? What about the people who create retail-standard levels for games and then ask nothing for them in return?

If individuals want to do that as a hobby, more power to them. To suggest that a company should pay their employees to do work, and then just give that work away for free, is idiotic. :roll:

More power to them? Perhaps then Bungie/MS should just release the development tools out to the public then? ala UT3 on PS3?

Why do companies never charge for maps for games that include an sdk? Because no one would ever buy them when there are already so many maps to play.

You do also realize that Bungie wanted to release the maps for free from the start? It's obviously just a quick cash in scheme by MS that half the Halo population falls for because the maps that shipped with the game are about as shoddy as they come.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Aikouka

Originally posted by: mugs
Maybe you should read your own post and read mine in the context of yours, because you completely misinterpreted what I said in the second paragraph. :roll:

Uhh I said that it segregates people and you posted some evidence that supposedly it's not true because only two of your custom map buddies didn't buy the map pack. Statistical significance ftw :roll:.

No, you said

"Paying for maps is stupid"
"So congratulations, you end up wasting your money when you can't even use it half the time"

I never made any claim that paying for maps is a good idea for most people - YOU are the one who made the blanket claims. I merely illustrated that for some types of people, your reasoning for why paying for maps is "stupid" does not apply. If you play with a bunch of people who aren't willing to pay for the maps, and you never play without them, then it is stupid for you. If you're like me, and you often play by yourself, and you often play with a group of people who all bought the maps, then it is not stupid. Most people know who they play with most, and they know if those people are going to buy the maps. I think we can all figure out on our own whether it's "stupid" to buy the maps. And for many people, it obviously wasn't stupid.

It's not as if this is a new phenomenon. Did you never play Starcraft (Brood War)?

To declare paid maps as universally stupid for the reasons you gave is, well, stupid.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: chrisg22
I"m with Aikouka about map packs segregating players.

The same thing happened with the R6:Vegas black/red packs.

I bought both of them, and up until a week before R6:V2 came out, the black/red pack maps were HARDLY used, at all. When we did try to get games going in them, no one would join.

Even when the black/red map packs became FREE, it was still hard to get game going on those maps.

I don't mind them charging for their work, but I still think it's stupid. I don't know a solution I just know I don't like it.

That really isn't a problem with Halo 3's matchmaking system - you could just play in the DLC playlists, and you'd be guaranteed a game on the new maps. And now that it's free, they're basically forcing everyone to download them to ensure that they'll be played.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: EvilComputer92
More power to them? Perhaps then Bungie/MS should just release the development tools out to the public then? ala UT3 on PS3?

Why do companies never charge for maps for games that include an sdk? Because no one would ever buy them when there are already so many maps to play.

You do also realize that Bungie wanted to release the maps for free from the start? It's obviously just a quick cash in scheme by MS that half the Halo population falls for because the maps that shipped with the game are about as shoddy as they come.

Yeah, I'm sure the millions of people who play Halo 3 every week probably agree that the original maps are shoddy. :roll:

It's nice of Bungie to say they wanted to offer them for free, but it's Microsoft's IP, Microsoft funded the development.

If you want your free maps, go play PC games. As of now there is ONE console game that allows user-created maps, and as far as I know no one else has announced such a feature for the future. Personally, I don't mind paying $10 for hours of entertainment. And because of people like me, paid downloadable content is not going away.

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: mugs
Blah blah blah

You still haven't shown that map packs don't separate gamers (in fact, you've shown an example of where it has) and since that was my reason... until you do, I have no reason to respond to you, nor do I wish to waste my time on reading your rubbish about comparing an expansion to a map pack (that was a good lulz for the day).

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Aikouka

Originally posted by: mugs
Blah blah blah

You still haven't shown that map packs don't separate gamers (in fact, you've shown an example of where it has) and since that was my reason... until you do, I have no reason to respond to you, nor do I wish to waste my time on reading your rubbish about comparing an expansion to a map pack (that was a good lulz for the day).

Sorry - where did I ever claim that it doesn't separate gamers? 😕 I didn't. Until you learn to comprehend what you're reading, you really shouldn't bother responding to me. It's really a waste of both of our time. And if you can't see the way your complaints about the map packs applied equally to Brood War, then that's the real "lulz."

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: mugs
Sorry - where did I ever claim that it doesn't separate gamers? 😕 I didn't.

Let's see, shall we... I said it segregates gamers and you brought up something where your buddies supposedly matter and that they're a shinning example of why it does and that supposedly makes my statement stupid. I guess it would be best if I put a "In my opinion" in front of my post next time because "people of lesser intelligence" (such as yourself) cannot comprehend the fact that on a message board, unless prefaced by such things as articles and such, posts tend to be quite opinionated. My reference of it being "stupid" is said opinion, although unlike most posts, my opinion is based on facts and sound logic... something that's about as foreign to you as sex to a Tibetan monk.

Originally posted by: mugs
And if you can't see the way your complaints about the map packs applied equally to Brood War, then that's the real "lulz."

An expansion is not a map pack, so saying that just because a player didn't purchase the expansion made it so they couldn't play with the people that did is just silly. $10 map pack vs full-fledged $20 expansion that includes single player, multiplayer and a whole slew of maps... hm? Now, if you really had a clue, you might get into the fact that Blizzard gave away free maps every month and maps were either StarCraft or SC:BW specific given the tileset used. But the fact is that they were free and if you didn't have them, the map downloaded automatically as long as your client supported the tileset 🙂.

Tsk, and here I said I wouldn't respond to such poor logic....

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Aikouka

Originally posted by: mugs
Sorry - where did I ever claim that it doesn't separate gamers? 😕 I didn't.

Let's see, shall we... I said it segregates gamers and you brought up something where your buddies supposedly matter and that they're a shinning example of why it does and that supposedly makes my statement stupid. I guess it would be best if I put a "In my opinion" in front of my post next time because "people of lesser intelligence" (such as yourself) cannot comprehend the fact that on a message board, unless prefaced by such things as articles and such, posts tend to be quite opinionated. My reference of it being "stupid" is said opinion, although unlike most posts, my opinion is based on facts and sound logic... something that's about as foreign to you as sex to a Tibetan monk.

Originally posted by: mugs
And if you can't see the way your complaints about the map packs applied equally to Brood War, then that's the real "lulz."

An expansion is not a map pack, so saying that just because a player didn't purchase the expansion made it so they couldn't play with the people that did is just silly. $10 map pack vs full-fledged $20 expansion that includes single player, multiplayer and a whole slew of maps... hm? Now, if you really had a clue, you might get into the fact that Blizzard gave away free maps every month and maps were either StarCraft or SC:BW specific given the tileset used. But the fact is that they were free and if you didn't have them, the map downloaded automatically as long as your client supported the tileset 🙂.

Tsk, and here I said I wouldn't respond to such poor logic....

OK - I understand it's an opinion, and I think your opinion is wrong. I thought that was clear. Your stated opinion is that it's stupid to buy map packs, because you can't play on those maps with people who don't have the map packs. That really only matters to people who ONLY play with their friends and whose friends did not buy the map packs. If your opinion is that it is stupid for people who meet those specific criteria to buy map packs, then you should have said so. Is that what your opinion is?

Really, it doesn't matter if it's stupid to buy map packs - what matters is whether it is stupid to sell them. I don't think it is. There are plenty of people willing to pay to play the maps a few months early, and those people are happy to play in the DLC playlists or play with friends who have the maps when they want to use the maps. That worked fine for many people. So I don't see the problem with selling the map packs.



You're right that an expansion is not a map pack, but I never said that a player who didn't purchase the expansion can't play with people who did. I said that the same complaints about map packs apply equally to Brood War. Do the map packs prevent you from playing with people who don't have the map packs? Of course not, you just can't play on THOSE maps. Likewise, if you had Brood War you could play with people who didn't have it, but you couldn't use the Brood War units. Say what you want about the difference between maps and units, but since most people played Starcraft primarily as a multiplayer game, the units were the bulk of what they were paying for with Brood War. And the Brood War units were not an insignificant addition to the game.



I really can't believe you people make such a big deal out of a company charging for DLC. If you don't want it, don't buy it. Has NOT having DLC ever made it impossible for you to play a game?

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: mugs
That really only matters to people who ONLY play with their friends and whose friends did not buy the map packs.

To an extent, the number of people that purchase the maps can also affect matchmaking. It all depends on how many people purchase the maps and who uses them. Fortunately, Bungie has a way to let people with said DLC play with eachother easier, yet there still has to be games with spots available. I don't really play Halo 3, so I can't tell you if it's easy to find a game or not.

Originally posted by: mugs
Really, it doesn't matter if it's stupid to buy map packs - what matters is whether it is stupid to sell them. I don't think it is. There are plenty of people willing to pay to play the maps a few months early, and those people are happy to play in the DLC playlists or play with friends who have the maps when they want to use the maps. That worked fine for many people. So I don't see the problem with selling the map packs.

I would say that as the amount of pay-to-play (P2P) maps go up, the worse the situation can become. If there are only a few P2P maps (and I guess you'd also have to include how much players like specific maps!), chances are that they won't make a huge dent, but if you're reaching a ratio closer to 1:1, chances are you will have more people playing on the P2P maps. If a lot of players don't have them, then you'll have less people to choose from for retail map games. So it's possible to make a worse environment for players.

From a business standpoint... heck yeah, it doesn't really matter. You got your money from them already and as long as they can eventually find a game, they won't gripe. If you can give them a reason to actually pay for the maps, then that's even better for you.

Originally posted by: mugs
You're right that an expansion is not a map pack, but I never said that a player who didn't purchase the expansion can't play with people who did.

Yes, that's true, but what I'm getting at here is the difference between the breadth of the Brood War expansion vs a small map pack. Brood War only cost $30 for what reviewers called a "proper expansion" ( or something like that... read it on wikipedia earlier when looking for the release price ) where this map pack was $10. Brood War included new maps, new units, new sounds, new music and some new upgrades as well as free maps ever so often straight from Blizzard (not to mention the ability for fans to create their own maps, but that's common in the PC realm). But I guess I'm poking my head into the realm of the high price of the DLC and not necessarily the segregation that it can cause versus this expansion. I think it may be interesting to see if there are people that just play StarCraft vs Brood War. I think you may not find many since you really can't buy the games separately anymore 😛.

Originally posted by: mugs
I really can't believe you people make such a big deal out of a company charging for DLC. If you don't want it, don't buy it. Has NOT having DLC ever made it impossible for you to play a game?

In some cases, I consider paying for certain DLC to be a rip-off a lot more than others. This can come from the price of the content or the fact that I'm paying for content that's already on the disc (that irks me). I think this one was a little high price-wise and P2P map packs can cause issues with gamers being able to find others with them.

 

[purbeast0]

so when are you two going to get married?

 

[IceBergSLiM]

you need to not take map packs so seriously . Buy them or don't. its pretty simple.

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: purbeast0
so when are you two going to get married?

I'm makin' him propose... I'm the cheap one who doesn't want to pay for the ring :lips:. Although we need to find out how to hide this from his wife tee-hee.

😛