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FYI: 20-50 something males...get your flu shot

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Wow really people?

If you want a shot, get one.

If you don't, don't get one.

Simple.

Who gives a crap whether someone else does or does not get the shot? Let each person decide, and leave it at that.
 
SlickSnake said:
And absolutely NOBODY commented on the first part of my previous post AT ALL. I guess that part of the post must have fell somewhere outside your comfort zones. Since a lot of you are too lazy to click a link, here it is, with relevant parts highlighted.

Read the story HERE:

http://metronews.ca/health/363279/canadian-problem-maybe-not-study-finds/

I think the deafening silence here about that article is pretty telling. We are not the experts, and only speculating, but they are experts and researching this, and they clearly know something is going on with flu vaccines and the severity of the flu some people are getting who have had them.

Of course, some of you will go but, but FERRETS. But if you do these suspect flu vaccine trials on humans, you may get a lot of very sick and dead humans, as she pointed out.
Click to expand...

Did you actually read those studies? I don't think you did. The authors (especially in the last study of the series from 2010 in Clincal Infectious Diseases) spend nearly the final five paragraphs of their discussion tearing apart their study as to why they found an association, but others have not. They freely admit the various study flaws. Furthermore, they discuss how SEVEN other studies did not find this association.

In the end, she still recommends the influenza vaccine.
 
SparkyJJO said:
Wow really people?

If you want a shot, get one.

If you don't, don't get one.

Simple.

Who gives a crap whether someone else does or does not get the shot? Let each person decide, and leave it at that.
Click to expand...

This is one of those things that, regardless of personal belief, everyone wins when someone gets a vaccine.

While we may never reach true "herd immunity" with influenza, due to fundamental properties of the influenza virus, we can definitely get closer than not with each person who gets the vaccine.

It helps all of us, and it especially helps the immunocompromised, immunodeficient, and apparently especially the elderly due to the overall effectiveness of influenza vaccines for them.


It benefits us all - thus, it can be said there's something at stake for us to care about. 😉
 
abj13 said:
Did you actually read those studies? I don't think you did. The authors (especially in the last study of the series from 2010 in Clincal Infectious Diseases) spend nearly the final five paragraphs of their discussion tearing apart their study as to why they found an association, but others have not. They freely admit the various study flaws. Furthermore, they discuss how SEVEN other studies did not find this association.

In the end, she still recommends the influenza vaccine.
Click to expand...

I can see his point quite clearly: science is not infallible, and there are some doubts/lingering questions regarding some data found in studies.

It's a conversation starter, for a very good reason. Even if all future studies cannot find the same links, it's important to at least consider these possibilities since the data they have does fit the scientific mold as opposed to being without merit and entirely unscientific.

Might it be determined to be a fluke, possibly from bad input data or something else? Absolutely. Might it be something that other studies completely missed, for bias or other reasons? Absolutely.

That it's a thorough study AND they cast doubt on their own findings, is actually wonderful science. The authors seem to have handled the entire thing how it should be done, so what they have, even if it's the only one to find such out of 10 studies looking at it similarly, demands to be given an objective followup or two.

BTW - got a link for the original journal article for the study?
 
destrekor said:
I can see his point quite clearly: science is not infallible, and there are some doubts/lingering questions regarding some data found in studies.

It's a conversation starter, for a very good reason. Even if all future studies cannot find the same links, it's important to at least consider these possibilities since the data they have does fit the scientific mold as opposed to being without merit and entirely unscientific.

Might it be determined to be a fluke, possibly from bad input data or something else? Absolutely. Might it be something that other studies completely missed, for bias or other reasons? Absolutely.

That it's a thorough study AND they cast doubt on their own findings, is actually wonderful science. The authors seem to have handled the entire thing how it should be done, so what they have, even if it's the only one to find such out of 10 studies looking at it similarly, demands to be given an objective followup or two.

BTW - got a link for the original journal article for the study?
Click to expand...

I agree with you wholeheartedly, its the beauty of scientific thought. The problem is that many people DO NOT understand scientific thought, and bastardize science. Look at the points of his post, especially when he points out how "But if you do these suspect flu vaccine trials on humans, you may get a lot of very sick and dead humans, as she pointed out."

There's scientific thought which involves carefully examining the data, and then there is cooking the books to support one's fearmongering about vaccines.

What isn't mentioned, which I forgot, those studies look at people who received the vaccine (2008) version the previous year having a higher risk of influenza-like illness. Its not a direct connection between receiving the vaccine during the season and getting influenza, its about getting a vaccine from the previous year (which did not have the pandemic H1N1 2009 strain).

Here's the clinical infectious diseases article, they are nice and offer it for free: http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/51/9/1017.full
 
Its because you being sick can also make other people sick. There have been thousands of studies on this subject.

Did none of you pay attention in Bio 101?
 
If I'm sick, I STAY HOME. Which thankfully, I don't get sick that often. I do deal with people a lot so I do tend to get a couple colds a year, but that's about it.

If more sick people stayed home maybe it wouldn't be as much of a deal.

Plus since I do not get the flu any more often than those who do get the shot it isn't like I'm some horrible walking contagious germ spreader.
 
destrekor said:
This is one of those things that, regardless of personal belief, everyone wins when someone gets a vaccine.

While we may never reach true "herd immunity" with influenza, due to fundamental properties of the influenza virus, we can definitely get closer than not with each person who gets the vaccine.

It helps all of us, and it especially helps the immunocompromised, immunodeficient, and apparently especially the elderly due to the overall effectiveness of influenza vaccines for them.


It benefits us all - thus, it can be said there's something at stake for us to care about. 😉
Click to expand...

OK, so said elderly or whoever gets the flu shot and should be good to go. Great. Why would me not getting the shot have any effect on them then? particularly if this year is just like last year which was like the year before that and the year before that when I never got the flu 😉
 
SparkyJJO said:
OK, so said elderly or whoever gets the flu shot and should be good to go. Great. Why would me not getting the shot have any effect on them then? particularly if this year is just like last year which was like the year before that and the year before that when I never got the flu 😉
Click to expand...

Because getting the flu shot is no guarantee you won't catch one of the exact strains included in said flu shot. The vaccine is not 100% effective against the virus. In other words, this year has H1N1. Say 100 people get the influenza vaccine. It is reasonable to expect up to 20-30 of those people to still get sick with that same exact strain of H1N1 at some point in the year, or one of the other strains in the vaccine, etc.

That person could die because he got the influenza virus from the cashier at kroger or bank clerk who felt they are healthy enough to not need a vaccine, and may even become stronger if they do get sick then proceed to get better.

Thus - if half the country doesn't get the vaccine, it's almost pointless for anyone to get it.
We're not just getting it for ourselves, we're trying to ensure we keep it out of the workplace and schools and, in general, away from everyone.
I can still get the flu from someone like you, even with the shot. I'd rather not. :colbert: And I'd sure as hell not like to see my only remaining grandparent get sick in such a stupid way.
 
SparkyJJO said:
If I'm sick, I STAY HOME. Which thankfully, I don't get sick that often. I do deal with people a lot so I do tend to get a couple colds a year, but that's about it.

If more sick people stayed home maybe it wouldn't be as much of a deal.

Plus since I do not get the flu any more often than those who do get the shot it isn't like I'm some horrible walking contagious germ spreader.
Click to expand...

You probably spread the virus well before you ever felt sick.

And maybe you just feel off, like I do, no fever and full appetite and no mental clarity issues - but some throat pain and, for lack of better words, some interesting myalgia I've never experienced before. A week ago a doc thought it was a virus - I've largely removed myself from society for every reason other than because I might infect someone. I would have went to work had I had a job. Most people, if they feel fine in the head, still go to work.
Influenza incubates for at least a day or two in your body, and you're infectious at that time.

Trust me, there is zero way anyone can prevent spreading infectious material into the atmosphere. You might shut yourself in, away from everyone for a solid week, but I can basically guarantee, if your goal was zero chance of infecting others, you blew that shot upon walking out the door a day or two before you could even tell something was different about your body.
Best you can hope for: nobody gets sick. It's possible nobody ever comes into contact with the seeds of infection you'd have left in some areas. Some might have natural immunity, some might have a strong enough immune system to prevent even a single particle from anchoring itself. Some might harbor a low-grade infection that the body never tips them off to, basically the body is dominating the battle but that battle still has to wage. That person is also then a potential vector of infectious material.
 
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