FX to be canned?

[chizow]

Originally posted by: mchammer187
so are u saying in a way Chiz agrees with Gtaudiofile?

as amazing as it seems yup

producing only 100,000 = DOA in my book and most likely chiz's

Lies!!!



Its not DOA, its just gonna have a very short shelf-life. If anything its being martyred for the good of the rest of the NV3X line

Chiz

 

[ls32]

Nvidia from their Are you ready campaign and other information has multiple teams working on various products. Rumor has it that there are 3 teams or somethign given 18 month production cycles. Since the geforce 4 series is a year old now, and the fx is a 6 months late (mostly due to fab issues), it is very possible that the other team was adapting the fx technology to the nv31 and 34 and that they could very well be tapped out and ready to go into production as soon as nvidia feels like putting them onto the market. That would leave the nv35 solidly in fall, and since nvidia is determined to stick to 6 month product cycles and has said that the geforce fx architecture is higly scaleable that it will be on time. With the chance of 4 chipsets (nv 30,31,34 and 35) to be produced in 6 months by nvidia, it is very possible that the nv30 will have a short shelf life and not many will be produced.

Anyway, 100,000 graphics cards seems like a large number to me considering that this is a so-called "enthusiast" card and will most likely never see life in a dell/compaq or other manufacturer's computer. This rumor seems to me like it could be true, and if it is, its not bad for nvidia, it just means that their new products are closer to reality than we thought.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: chizow

Originally posted by: mchammer187
so are u saying in a way Chiz agrees with Gtaudiofile?

as amazing as it seems yup

producing only 100,000 = DOA in my book and most likely chiz's

Lies!!!



Its not DOA, its just gonna have a very short shelf-life. If anything its being martyred for the good of the rest of the NV3X line

Chiz

That IS what DOA usually means . . . "short-life" . . ."martyr" . . . "Dead". . .

AND . . . it looks like the R350 - R9900Pro - will be out next month . . .

 

[GTaudiophile]

I don't understand Chiz's unfounded optimism in NV30, especially since he owns a Radeon 9700 PRO.

 

[Czar]

The NV30 is to nVidia as Itanium is to Intel, they might sell a few but it wont be mainstream

 

[bluemax]

Originally posted by: paralazarguer

FX to be canned?

Yeah, that would be a really great way to ship them. Retailers could tell if the can had been opened and it helps keep the freshness in.

[DRUM FILL]

 

[Mallow]

yeah, I don't think FX will be that impressive on the market w/ the 9700Pro out... the FX shouldn't have been so late... they are trying to concentrate on their bigger things me thinks.

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: chizow

Originally posted by: mchammer187
so are u saying in a way Chiz agrees with Gtaudiofile?

as amazing as it seems yup

producing only 100,000 = DOA in my book and most likely chiz's

Lies!!!



Its not DOA, its just gonna have a very short shelf-life. If anything its being martyred for the good of the rest of the NV3X line

Chiz

That IS what DOA usually means . . . "short-life" . . ."martyr" . . . "Dead". . .

AND . . . it looks like the R350 - R9900Pro - will be out next month . . .

Er, no, DOA means "Dead on Arrival", which means it never got off the ground or it never saw the light of day. 100,000 units is still a lot, I expect them to sell briskly.

Unfounded optimism? I only said wait for final reviews and silicon, I didn't expect it to be anything earth-shattering, that'll be NV35

Chiz

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: chizow

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: chizow

Originally posted by: mchammer187
so are u saying in a way Chiz agrees with Gtaudiofile?

as amazing as it seems yup

producing only 100,000 = DOA in my book and most likely chiz's

Lies!!!



Its not DOA, its just gonna have a very short shelf-life. If anything its being martyred for the good of the rest of the NV3X line

Chiz

That IS what DOA usually means . . . "short-life" . . ."martyr" . . . "Dead". . .

AND . . . it looks like the R350 - R9900Pro - will be out next month . . .

Er, no, DOA means "Dead on Arrival", which means it never got off the ground or it never saw the light of day. 100,000 units is still a lot, I expect them to sell briskly.

Unfounded optimism? I only said wait for final reviews and silicon, I didn't expect it to be anything earth-shattering, that'll be NV35

Chiz

No, "Dead on Arrival" is exactly as it sounds - it doesn't mean "never got off the ground" (that is BitBoys' eternal vapourware) or "never saw the light of day" (voodoo 6000).

DOA describes the FX DustBuster - after $400 million of R&D, six months late - it is "brought to market" (when it "arrives") and then "canned" (i.e. "dead" or DOA when it is found to be too little, too late, too loud and too expensive to compete with it's competitors' existing part.

And - simply my prediction - NV35 is gonna be "disappointing" too.

 

[GTaudiophile]

NV35 should be pretty good with a 256-bit bus, but they have to find a way to get it to run cooler at those speeds.

And no one should forget that ATi will release R400 at about the same time we see NV35.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
NV35 should be pretty good with a 256-bit bus, but they have to find a way to get it to run cooler at those speeds.

And no one should forget that ATi will release R400 at about the same time we see NV35.

This has to be in response to my "NV35 is gonna be disappointing" prediction. To clarify, when we see fans call a future product "earth-shattering", it is bound to be disappointing.

I know I won't be disappointed with the NV35.

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
NV35 should be pretty good with a 256-bit bus, but they have to find a way to get it to run cooler at those speeds.

And no one should forget that ATi will release R400 at about the same time we see NV35.

This has to be in response to my "NV35 is gonna be disappointing" prediction.

I know I won't be disappointed with the NV35.

No, if you re-read what I wrote, I said I expected NV35 to be earth-shattering. 100,000 production units should be plenty to sustain the FX until NV35's launch (sounds like it'll be sooner than expected as well).

Regardless, I'm not going to argue over semantics. Its like arguing with a 5-year old, just comes down to name-calling. Discussions you're involved in is akin to drinking a beer while watching pro wrestling: no intellectual stimulation, consumption of empty calories, and only good for killing time and braincells.

To clarify, when we see fans call a future product "earth-shattering", it is bound to be disappointing.

I'm not a fan, I'm a player. If you ever exchanged your fanboi season pass for the actual products you cheer for, you'd understand. Until then, you'll remain on the bench.

Chiz

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: chizow

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
NV35 should be pretty good with a 256-bit bus, but they have to find a way to get it to run cooler at those speeds.

And no one should forget that ATi will release R400 at about the same time we see NV35.

This has to be in response to my "NV35 is gonna be disappointing" prediction.

I know I won't be disappointed with the NV35.

No, if you re-read what I wrote, I said I expected NV35 to be earth-shattering. 100,000 production units should be plenty to sustain the FX until NV35's launch (sounds like it'll be sooner than expected as well).

Regardless, I'm not going to argue over semantics. Its like arguing with a 5-year old, just comes down to name-calling. Discussions you're involved in is akin to drinking a beer while watching pro wrestling: no intellectual stimulation, consumption of empty calories, and only good for killing time and braincells.

To clarify, when we see fans call a future product "earth-shattering", it is bound to be disappointing.

I'm not a fan, I'm a player. If you ever exchanged your fanboi season pass for the actual products you cheer for, you'd understand. Until then, you'll remain on the bench.

Chiz

You're pretty "full" of yourself, aren't you.

You must realize that I feel exactly about you the way you write about me.

So, in the interests of "forum harmony", I am not going to ever address another post of yours re: nVidia vs. ATI. You have your "opinion" and I have mine. That is fine - but further "debating" between us is - IMO - contraproductive and simply irritating (not only to us).

Peace and aloha, chizow.

 

[Whitedog]

This thread has too many "Quotes" repeated.

Matrox Rewlz!

:Q

 

[apoppin]

Why Geforce FX doesn't have a 256bit memory bus

Too expensive and memory controller not up to it

WE ASKED AROUND the industry why the nVidia GeForce FX does not use a 256bit bus with DDR II memory. We learned that nVidia wanted to go for DDR II memory simply because DDR I stops at the magic limit of 400 MHz and that was the reason for making card with DDR II memory.
We wondered why they didn't use a 256bit memory bus as that memory working at 500 MHz would give them 32GB of raw bandwidth. It would have definitely been a Radeon 9700 PRO killer, it would have had almost 13GB/s greater bandwidth.

Calling around to find out about using DDR II memory with a 256bit interface, we learned that it would be possible to get some - though in limited quantities because there is no demand for it and it would be extremely expensive.

An even more important reason is that, according to whispers from those in the know, the GeForce FX memory controller looks very like the one that they used in GeForce 4 cards and it is definitely not capable of running DDR II with a 256bit interface. That is what we heard from our sources though we would be glad to see an improved GeForce FX that uses this memory at least as technology demonstration. But this is unlikely to happen.

Remember even R300 aka Radeon 9700/9700 Pro can work with DDR II memory so the R350 that is an advanced and faster version of R300 will be able to run this memory. If the price is right, ATI might just announce a card based on DDR II. But remember it needs DDR II with a 256bit interface to make the difference otherwise it would have lower bandwidth that its current cards even if the memory clock is faster. µ

 

[apoppin]

***TODAY'S NEWS***

Nvidia now expected to dump GeForce FX

SOURCES CLOSE to Nvidia tell the INQUIRER that the graphics firm has told its partners that the GeForce FX is likely to be discontinued, with the firm instead concentrating on the NV35 platform.
The sources said that the firm has made the move because of an update that its bitter rival ATI is expected to soon roll out of the door.

Nvidia could not be contacted for confirmation at press time, but earlier this week a PR representative said that he "could not comment" on the previous reports.

Insiders had told the INQ earlier this year that Nvidia was only forecasting 100,000 units of the GeForce FX to ship before the end of May.

The boards were all being manufactured by one outsourcing company to Nvidia's specifications, and the partners were expected to re-brand the GeForce FX with their own boxes and different colour fans.

We're attempting to get more on this later today. If the reports are confirmed it's an expensive business for both Nvidia and its partners. At press time it wasn't clear whether the existing GPUs will be sold. But another source told us that it will stick with the ones it already has produced and that are in production, so won't ramp that production up.

It will also wait and see the reaction from customers and press reviewers to assess the right quantity to ship. There may be only as few as 10,000 GPUs currently produced, that source added. µ

[

 

[Hottie]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
NV35 should be pretty good with a 256-bit bus, but they have to find a way to get it to run cooler at those speeds.

And no one should forget that ATi will release R400 at about the same time we see NV35.

Only if it REALLY come w/ 256-bit bus. and w/out the dustbuster

 

[Vic]

"Never in the history of computing has so much bullsh!t been written by so many with such little truth."

 

[apoppin]

Here's a CHRONOLOGY of the FX that may explain WHY it is to be "canned" (from the NVNews Forum - good work from that poster!:

Originally posted by poursoul
this has to be the worst launch of a video card (hell any computer hardware!) in the history of man.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



As much as I hate to say it, I'll probably have to agree with you poursoul. But now that I've looked back at the past, it's not that surprising. I've compiled a chronological listing of key news posts dating back to last August that mention the NV30 - http://www.nvnews.net/cgi-bin/searc...gi?keyword=nv30

Unfortunately, we lost four months of news prior to August. In that news, I recall NVIDIA's CEO mentioning that the NV30 might be out as early as August of 2002.


UPDATE - May 1, 2002 - http://news.com.com/2100-1040-896850.html


This is subject to interpretation since the statement was made by the author of the article and not NVIDIA. More precisely, the phrase "from a new graphics chip slated to arrive in August" could have meant the AGP 8X version of the GeForce4.

"Also on Monday, Nvidia raised its financial outlook for the just-ended quarter, and Huang said he sees continued market share gains this year leading to more growth. Some of that will come from a new graphics chip slated to arrive in August."


END OF UPDATE


START OF NEWS POSTS


8/23/2002 - Credit Suisse First Boston analyst Tim Mahon, in a research note on Thursday afternoon, said that NVIDIA has come under criticism from analysts for declining to specify when its next-generation graphics chip, known as NV30, will ship, other than to say there will be some availability this holiday season.


8/28/2002 - Interview with Huang at SFGate.com - "We believe we have overcome the challenge. We believe we're ready to go into production. We're very confident that NV30 (Nvidia's next-generation chip) will be available for you this Christmas season."


9/7/2002 - Hiroshige?s Weekly International News - http://home.attbi.com/~bobcraig4/ka...translation.htm (Thanks to Bob Craig for the translation).

This is exactly what Nvidia?s [current] case amounts to. In other words, if the NV30 is to appear during this year, it will be conditional that the first samples are good, and that ?risk production? is performed. Because of this, if there is to be a critical bug found in the first silicon of the NV30, Nvidia?s schedule would not only be delayed, but they would take on economic damages also.


9/16/2002 - NVIDIA Needs NV30 - According to business analysts at Zacks Investment Research, NVIDIA is on their exclusive list of Stocks to Sell Now.

When that happens (the NV30 debuts), and when the technology sector in general gets back on its feet, NVDA should put together some better performances that more adequately reflect its potential. Until that time, investors may want to hold off on beginning or deepening a position in NVDA.


9/23/2002 - AnandTech visits NVIDIA - The engineers were hard at work on NV30; because of the delays there has been a lot more testing and validation work on the part that should help NVIDIA considerably once all of the manufacturing issues settle. We caught a glimpse of NV30 running off of the IKOS box.


10/24/2002 - CNET - Nvidia chips to make tardy debut - Graphics chip leader Nvidia is expected to unveil the fastest PC graphics processor yet at the Comdex trade show next month, but analysts say the new chip may be too little, too late.

Nvidia was expected to have its NV30 processor, to be sold as the GeForce 5, on the market by now. But problems stemming from shifting to a new chipmaking process have bumped back the chip by several months. Analysts now expect Nvidia to have a handful of new chips on the market by Christmas, but volume shipments won?t begin until early next year.

"Basically, they missed the cycle," Hans Mosesmann, a Prudential Securities analyst, said of Nvidia. "Really (the NV30) is a fall product that's now been pushed out for all intents and purposes to the spring."

The NV30 "is a great product," Mosesmann said. "It's going to be better, but not good enough...It's going to have to be twice as fast as the 9700 for people to look at it and think about switching." (Bear in mind that Mosesman is a Prudential Securities analyst. His knowledge concerning the performance of high-end graphics cards may be limited )


11/5/2002 - AnandTech - "NVIDIA was over today showing Matthew and I something very impressive that you'll be able to read about in the coming week(s)."


11/7/2002 - Last fall's earnings conference call NVIDIA's CEO stated - "we expect to begin production shipments (of NV30) in our January quarter." (Note that January quarter does not imply January, 2003).

We also learned that NVIDIA had been developing NV30 test chips since February 2002.


11/15/2002 - The Inquirer - NV30 "30% faster" than Radeon 9700 Pro.


11/18/2002 - NVIDIA took a beating on Wall Street today as shares dropped by almost 22%. My (MikeC) take on the situation is that when Prudential analyst Hans Mosesmann cut his rating on NVIDIA to sell, investors paniced.


11/18/2002 - NV30 debuts at COMDEX. DigiTimes reports that mass production of the NV30 chip is expected to begin by year-end and volume shipments in the first quarter of 2003.


11/19/2002 - Merril Lynch - "We believe the highly anticipated (graphics processing unit) is worthy of the attention as it delivers 2.5 (times) to 3 (times) the performance of the company's previous top-of-the-line processor, GeForce4 Ti 4600, according to industry benchmarks," Merrill Lynch analyst Joe Osha said in a research note Tuesday.

"With the NV30 finally here, we believe there is one less risk to owning the stock," Osha said.


11/20/2002 - Merril Lynch - "We spent some time with NVIDIA?s senior management at Comdex yesterday, and came away convinced that although short-term challenges remain, NVIDIA is on the right track to resume growth. With the worst now behind it, we believe NVIDIA?s valuation is too compelling to ignore, and we are reiterating our buy recommendation and $20 price target.

It will be very important for NVIDIA to successfully ramp the lower-cost versions of NV3X in time to hit the April 2003 quarter.


12/6/2002 - DigiTimes reports that TSMC's 0.13-micron processes at Fab 6 has reportedly reached a yield rate of 70% and that NVIDIA's GeForce FX (NV30) is in "small-volume test production."


2/3/2003 - Huang (NVIDIA's CEO) is confident that Nvidia will end up back on top. "Tiger Woods doesn't win every day. We don't deny that ATI has a wonderful product and it took the performance lead from us. But if they think they're going to hold onto it, they're smoking something hallucinogenic."

(Note that indirectly, Huang is admitting that NVIDIA has lost this round to ATI).


END OF NEWS POSTS


GEFORCE FX REVIEWS


AnandTech - http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1779&p=1

"So there you have it, NVIDIA's response to ATI's Radeon 9700 Pro - but does anyone else feel unfulfilled by the GeForce FX? A card that is several months late, that is able to outperform the Radeon 9700 Pro by 10% at best but in most cases manages to fall behind by a factor much greater than that. Granted the problems that plagued the launch of the FX weren't all up to NVIDIA's control, after all the decision to go 0.13-micron was made 1 - 2 years ago based on data that was available at the time. ATI took a gamble on producing a 0.15-micron part and NVIDIA did the same on their 0.13-micron NV30, and it looks like ATI guessed right."


ExtremeTech - http://www.extremetech.com/article2...3,846356,00.asp

"GeForceFX certainly puts nVidia back into contention with ATI, but Radeon 9700 Pro looks strong versus GeForceFX, and these results show just how much performance ground nVidia had lost to ATI when Radeon 9700 Pro first shipped. But ATI's solid outing here versus GeForceFX should give nVidia pause, since it appears likely that GeForceFX in fact will not return the performance lead to nVidia."


HardOCP - http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NDIx

"The Bottom Line: The GeForceFX 5800 Ultra is a very hot and noisy beast that may give you a bit of an edge over the current king of the hill, the ATI 9700 Pro in some applications. If you are an NVIDIA fanboy, this of course has your name all over it. At the current US$400.00 price point, the GFFX simply does not seem worth it to us. If NVIDIA can work some driver magic and pull an extra 20% increase in frame rate out of the bag like we have seen in the past, they had best start pulling. Either that or pull out the NV35 chipset, and quick."


Tom's Hardware - http://www6.tomshardware.com/graphi...0127/index.html

(Tom's review was authored by a reviewer that runs an NVIDIA based fan site).

"NVIDIA takes the crown! No question about it - the GeForceFX 5800 Ultra is faster than the competition from ATI's Radeon 9700 PRO in the majority of the benchmarks. However, its lead is only slight, especially compared to the distance that ATI put between its Radeon 9700 PRO and the Ti 4600. Still, when compared to its predecessor, the GeForce4 Ti, the FX represents a giant step forward."


END OF REVIEWS


There are two upcoming events that we should pay attention to. The first one will be the debut of 3DMark03 next week followed by NVIDIA's conference call with investors.

What will happen if major investors begin to lose confidence in NVIDIA?

Their investors may be willing to "look the other way" for the time being since the move to .13-micron was risky. At this point, I believe the NV35 could make or break NVIDIA's graphics business sector.

[/quote]

 

[Snoop]

Hard OCP is now saying its canned as well.
FX canned
Nvidia, is really f'ing up. They should have not released this hackjob of a card in the first place. Delaying the release of a product IMO, is better than releasing a steaming pile of sheit which is the geforce FX. What worries me (my stock portfolio more-so), is who the tards in management were that decided that the public/reviewers would be impressed by a card which doesnt beat a 6 month old 9700 in High resolution tests. Further, the only reason they were even close to the radeon, is by using EXOTIC (and i am sure expensive) 1000mhz DDR, a freaking hunk of steele capable of dissapating the heat from a moderate sized firepit, and an exhaust fan which could most likely fly a small aircraft.

 

[bluemax]

Well, I can understand them wanting to move on after it didn't perform as well as hoped, but I didn't expect them to CAN it completely!! :Q :Q :Q
Now GFFX 1 "the original" will now be sold on e-b-a-y like Voodoo6's are/were.

I still hope it drives down some prices..... And it's STILL a better card than the GF4 line - technologically speaking at least.

 

[human2k]

with this going on, it gives Via time to unleash the power of there Savage Pro graphics chip.

 

[bluemax]

Originally posted by: human2k
with this going on, it gives Via time to unleash the power of there Savage Pro graphics chip.

LOL!
I'd like to see VIA even catch up with SIS and the fairly-impressive SiS Xabre 600!

 

[Tret]

if nvidia didnt have so much money they would go bankrupt cuz of the fx look at voodoo