FX card has potential!!

DX2Player

Senior member
Oct 14, 2002
445
0
0
LOL thread locked, ok in all seriousnes this thread will be dedicated to the potential of the FX card.

With the anouncement of Gainwards 7DB FX card the greatest issue haunting its released has been addressed. I also have no doubt that Nvidia will release a much more mature set of drivers to further enhance its lead over the 9700 PRO. So where does this leave the new future of the FX series?
 

Alptraum

Golden Member
Sep 18, 2002
1,078
0
0
I think its almost impossible to say at the moment. Once its been out for a few weeks or a month or so and we can see a card thats actually shipping and they hopefully update the drivers who knows what it will be like. Maybe a ton faster then the 9700 Pro, maybe exactly like it is now. I figure the answer is somewhere in between there. All the talk some people are doing along the lines of "R350" will be way faster then NV30" or on the other side "NV35 will be better then R400" or anything along those lines just seems silly to me. There is not enough info to go on at the moment. Everything is speculation.

My last video choice was a 9700Pro. Before that it was NVidia. For the next one Ill just see whats fastest at whatever time I deceide I need another one.

So in a nushell I don't think your question "So where does this leave the new future of the FX series? " can really be answered right now. We will just have to wait abit longer.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,391
8,548
126
Originally posted by: DX2Player
LOL thread locked, ok in all seriousnes this thread will be dedicated to the potential of the FX card.

With the anouncement of Gainwards 7DB FX card the greatest issue haunting its released has been addressed. I also have no doubt that Nvidia will release a much more mature set of drivers to further enhance its lead over the 9700 PRO. So where does this leave the new future of the FX series?

the ultra still won't be in an OEM box, i'll guarantee that.
 

Tab

Lifer
Sep 15, 2002
12,145
0
76
I want to hear the card before I belive it. 7dbs? How is that possible?
 

DX2Player

Senior member
Oct 14, 2002
445
0
0
Well id say this for the FX card, since it is quieter i believe it has a good chance now as apose to before. If this card is quiet and can somehow quickly scale down to 9700 pro price range lots of people will grab at it quick. As for all the talk about people woried about it using an extra PCI slot, most of the people looking to shell out this much cash are probably top end users. And many of those users have 6 or so PCI slots, I have no problem with giving up one of my various unused PCI slots to a cool looking card.
 

krackato

Golden Member
Aug 10, 2000
1,058
0
0
Hey, knock the fan noise to 7dB and squeeze another 20-30% more performance with the drivers and you've got yourself a card that disappoints me a little less. jk. I'd be impressed.
 

mrman3k

Senior member
Dec 15, 2001
959
0
0
The extra PCI slot being used is a good thing. I hate it when people say it is a bad thing since you should NEVER be installing anything next to your graphics card.:|
 

McCarthy

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
2,567
0
76
You mean like USB 2 brackets, firewire brackets, etc expansion? Just cuz you shouldn't necessarily use the PCI slot doesn't mean the space taken up is appreciated.
 

Rand

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
11,071
1
81
What are they using to cool it?

Obviously it's not a fan of any sort, as 7db is WAY below what even the quietest and smallest fan.
Last I heard the human heart was louder then 7db, and one doesnt exactly hear others hearts beating very often :p

I'm not sure what Gainward is using for cooling, but whatever it is I'm certain their being more then a little misleading by labeling it at 7db....


Edit: The human heart is apparently 10 decibles :)
 

Wolfsraider

Diamond Member
Jan 27, 2002
8,305
0
76
Originally posted by: mrman3k
The extra PCI slot being used is a good thing. I hate it when people say it is a bad thing since you should NEVER be installing anything next to your graphics card.:|

so does that mean you lose 2 slots ....that way there is nothing next to the video card?
 

Nemesis77

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2001
7,329
0
0
Originally posted by: mrman3k
The extra PCI slot being used is a good thing. I hate it when people say it is a bad thing since you should NEVER be installing anything next to your graphics card.:|

So, instead of losing one PCI-slot, you lose two, since "you shouldn't install anything next to your graphics card!". FX blocks PCI-slot #1. But that's OK, since it shouldn't be used even if it were free. So now it's the slot #2 that's next to the vid-card, and you shouldn't use it, since it's a bad thing to install anything next to your vid-card.
 

DX2Player

Senior member
Oct 14, 2002
445
0
0
Well I think it depends on how they solved it, its hard to say till we see pics. With the original FX card design you could use the next avalible slot because the exhaust unit pushed the warm air outside the case so the PCI card would not be directly hit. I think that most ppl can deal with 5 PCI slots.
 

KGB1

Platinum Member
Dec 29, 2001
2,998
0
0
Originally posted by: mrman3k
The extra PCI slot being used is a good thing. I hate it when people say it is a bad thing since you should NEVER be installing anything next to your graphics card.:|

If your suggesting we dont put an Adaptec 2960 Ultra SCSI 2 card on the first PCI slot, then I agree. The impact the card will have on that expensive a$$ is not worth the risk I would put it in the thrid or fourth. But harm will a TINY littler NIC card have on the cooling of the GF4/Radeon9700? I don't see any reason why I should be taken away a PCI slot for 1 product to function. Vieo cards are getting out of hand, they should be building faster smaller quiter cards... instead its still FASTER but longer louder and require more POWER to operate them.

I thought new TECHNOLOGY with the .13 micron press and ISO would make fan obsolete. Seems otherway around to me, I'll be upgrading when the .6 - .9 micron press becomes the norm. I can't handle the noise.

See new Serial ATA HDD, use WAY less power and smaller cables. Thats the road we should be on.
 

zephyrprime

Diamond Member
Feb 18, 2001
7,512
2
81
I thought new TECHNOLOGY with the .13 micron press and ISO would make fan obsolete. Seems otherway around to me, I'll be upgrading when the .6 - .9 micron press becomes the norm. I can't handle the noise.
The heat will only get worse not better even with smaller processes! It's a fundamental thing. Sure, a die shrink will yield lower power consumption for a given speed and # of transistors but that won't actually happen! With die shrinkg will come more transistors and more MHz. Haven't you noticed that dies are actually getting bigger not smaller because the transitor count is increasing faster than die shrinks and bigger silicon platters and cleaner processes allow for physically larger.
 

zephyrprime

Diamond Member
Feb 18, 2001
7,512
2
81
No doubt the GFFX will improve somewhat in the future with new drivers. The GFFX is a new platform after all. Higher speed grades are also possible in the near future. Also, better cooling solutions are already available it seems. But none of these improvements will be enough to outstrip ATI. Why? The current R300 can already overclock from 325 to 375-415 with stock cooling! And the stock cooling on the R300 sucks so there's a lot of room for improvement. The GFFX on the other hand can only overclock by 25MHz even though it has it huge ass cooler on it. ATI only need find some faster memory for the R300 and it will to mopping the floor with the GFFX! ATi should be able to get DDRII with ease since DDRII is no doubt simply made by Samsung or Infineon or Hynix or whoever. What's more, ATi's lead over the NV30 will be insurmountable if ATI releases the R350! ATI will dominate the video card market until the NV35 for certain.

On the other hand, I am impressed by the GFFX's excellent performance in lighting tests.
 

bluemax

Diamond Member
Apr 28, 2000
7,182
0
0
If the NV30 is coupled with a SILENT fan, costs the same (approximately) as a 9700 Pro, and also does some of the neat things ATI is doing (namely, DivX enhancing, web video enhancing...)

I'd call it really, really close. For nothing but gaming, I'd lean to the NV30 (non-pro for price) but for everyday use where you're gaming AND doing other neat video-related stuff, I'd lean R300.
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,709
3,002
126
The FX has heaps of potential and with the comments made by Carmack coupled with the new cooling initiatives from various OEMs, I'm sure the card will be much more attractive in its retail state.

Of course also I think the 9700 Pro will always be the better board but the FX is a good alternative to anyone who doesn't want to go with ATi. I don't think the FX is a flop like the Parhelia, it's just a little disappointing.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
"Too Little, Too Late" (Overclockers.com)
The Bad News

In a sentence, the nForce FX does little better than a Radeon 9700 Pro in some things, and usually does worse when you want to use some of that raw power to spiffy up the image.

For those dubious advantages, you end up with a space-chewing, heat-pumping, noise-making, GPI-throttling video card.

The Worse News?

This is pretty bad for nVidia, and you need to ask yourself, why?

Is this simply the future? Will any video card out to lay claim to the throne in the near future end up being a space-chewing, heat-pumping, noise-making, GPU-throttling video card?

Or is this not the future but nVidia? Did they just push the specs too hard given current manufacturing technology?

It's clear now why nVidia swallowed the delays and waited for 0.13 micron technology; the damn thing might have become molten at 0.15. Was this a design that really should have waited for yet even smaller manufacturering processes?

You get the impression that nVidia focused more on future features this generation, while ATI designed to deliver the best they could for the here and now. The problem with nVidia's approach is that all those future advances will probably only serve as space heaters in this card, by the time the features get used, it will be outdated.

Or did nVidia just design for numbers? Were the designer told, "Make the GPU run at 500MHz and the memory at 1GHz and to hell with the consequences?"

Or, hard as this might be to believe given the delays, is this just a rush job? Is this the Willamette of video cards?

Had nVidia planned and designed the next generation of card to be the "regular" FX5800 only to find out that ATI had blindsided them with a different design approach and their planned card just wasn't good enough? After finding that out, did they decide that the only quick answer to the Radeon 9700 was to crank up the design as far as it could go (only to find TSMC wasn't quite up to it, making it a slow answer)?

This seems to be the most likely explanation.

It's very hard to believe nVidia designed a card like this because they thought it was a good idea. It's so environmentally unfriendly at a time when even the performance loons notice the noise. Would you design that air boondoggle that still leaves the heatsinks close to 70°C unless you absolutely had to?

Another indicator of that is that nVidia apparently isn't bringing the NV30 design down to the sub-$200 market. Instead, we'll see NV31 and NV34, and the fact that we haven't heard diddly-squat about them seems to indicate they went back to the drawing board last fall to come up with a saner, cheaper (but not necessarily too quick) design on those.

None of this excuses nVidia for being caught flatfooted. These are just likely explanations for why nVidia got caught flat-footed.

A Hobbyist's Challenge

While looking at all the heat descriptions, I kept thinking, "This is a job for water cooling."

I bet this would be an ideal card for those who are willing and able to strip away all that air duct stuff and put waterblocks whereever needed. Unfortunately, there's only about 87 of you out there who'll do that.

It's pretty hard to recommend this card to the hydrophobic. This is the equivalent of adding a second CPU to your case. The Radeon 9700 Pro is bad enough as is; I use it to warm my fingers in a chilly basement. It pumps out enough heat from the backend to adversely affect overclocking by heating up the North Bridge in an open-air environment.

The FX is even worse. Just imagine what it will do in a closed environment in systems that don't approximate wind tunnels.

If heat isn't enough to convince you to go wawa, how about noise? Anandtech measured this card at 77 decibels. That is loud. Let me put it this way, buy this card and you'll never complain about loud power supply fans again; you won't be able to hear them over this.

Still not enough to give up air? Then forget about this card.

The Really Bad News. Maybe

If you need a medium-priced video card sooner rather than later, this is all really bad news for you. ATI will hardly need to reduce prices to remain competitive, and that probably means no 9700 performance for $150 any time soon.

Yes, you can try the Radeon 9500 128Mb hack, but with an estimated 30% failure rate (see January 12 articles), that's no sure thing, either.

What we have to hope for is ATI deciding to put market share ahead of profits. If so, I'd wait until these NV31s come out, and if they weren't competitive against a regular 9700; I'd bring the price of those down to about $180, and put the Radeon 9500s around $130.

That would really ring nVidia's clock, which is pretty rung already.
I could have said it better, but Ed gets it close enough. ;)
 

Rand

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
11,071
1
81
I could have said it better, but Ed gets it close enough. ;)

Ed Stroligo hates everything and flames everything, he's also got an overdeveloped ego.
I'm seldom one to outright flame web editors, but I put about 5X more worth into the much maligned Van Smith then anything Ed Stroligo every says.