Furor engulfs Chicago's red-light camera system

[dmcowen674]

7-30-2014

http://news.yahoo.com/furor-engulfs-chicagos-red-light-110835244.html

Furor engulfs Chicago's red-light camera system



Chicago mayor tries to contain furor over red-light cameras and unexplained spike in tickets



Mayor Rahm Emanuel's administration is scrambling to contain a furor over the city's red-light camera system, which may have ticketed thousands of motorists under questionable circumstances.


Emanuel has vowed to give motorists an extra chance to appeal tickets and to refund any issued improperly. More than 13,000 red-light tickets costing $100 each were generated at a dozen intersections where there were dramatic spikes in violations logged.


"These spikes, you can tell they (the tickets) are fraudulent," said Scott Waguespack, one of the aldermen who sent Chicago Inspector General Joseph Ferguson a letter asking for an investigation. "We are talking millions of dollars here and something is fundamentally wrong with the system."


The city has yet to explain the ticket spikes. Speculation has focused on the possibility the cameras were malfunctioning or being manipulated to generate more tickets.

 

[dmcowen674]

Americans especially Chicagoans deserve every ticket.

I am happy I got out of there.

I got several of those bogus Red Light tickets before I left there.

I don't even turn right on red especially at Red Light Intersections.

I got tickets even though I was sitting still.

You can't fight the $100 ticket because they charge $125 to contest the ticket.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

yadmrt

 

[CZroe]

Americans especially Chicagoans deserve every ticket.

I am happy I got out of there.

I got several of those bogus Red Light tickets before I left there.

I don't even turn right on red especially at Red Light Intersections.

I got tickets even though I was sitting still.

You can't fight the $100 ticket because they charge $125 to contest the ticket.

TPAD.

 

[CPA]

For once I agree with Dave. Sorry, red light cameras are a scam.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Mythbusters seemed to think they were quite difficult to beat.

http://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/m...database/way-to-beat-police-speed-cameras.htm

There Is A Way To Beat Police Speed Cameras
Finding: PLAUSIBLE

Explanation: Drivers have sped by, shot at and even worn monkey masks while passing speed cameras in attempts to dodge the resulting fines. But in spite of these questionable tactics, and online instructions that exist for beating police cameras, it's incredibly hard to hide from those keen mechanical eyes.

People have tried to camouflage their license plates with hairspray, plastic wrap, specialized spray formulas and license plate covers, and none have held up to MythBusters testing. For instance, don't buy the hype about specialized blockers that obscure license plates when viewed from the camera's elevated vantage point. Regardless of height, speed cameras can still read that auto ID clear as day.

Same goes for commercial spray that supposedly reflects the camera's flash back onto its lens, transforming the license plate area into a blank white rectangle. The speed camera still captures a clear image of the plate number.

In fact, the MythBusters determined that the only way to fight speed cameras was with speed itself — and lots of it. Speed camera sensors can generally detect cars traveling up to 200 miles per hour.

So, in theory, you can crank up a hot rod capable of speeds greater than 200 mph and beat the camera. Well, until you're nabbed for reckless driving and excessive speeding, that is

.

 

[cabri]

Slow down, remove the plates or cover them up.

The problem with fighting it is they want you to pay for winning.
I am sure that such could be fought, but the cost to do so....

 

[smackababy]

So, has anyone actually seen how people in Chicago drive? They run red lights. They don't start to stop when it turns yellow; they don't have the intersection cleared when the light turns. Anyone making an unprotected left will be in the middle of the intersection and start their turn after the light as went from yellow to red.

And, now they bitch about getting a ticket for breaking the law. Fuck those assholes. I'd double their fines if I was an appeal judge.

 

[SlowSpyder]

I got an IL camera ticket for supposedly not stopping when turning right at a red light a few years back. I went to the website to watch the video, and of course there was no video of the violation.

 

[smackababy]

I got an IL camera ticket for supposedly not stopping when turning right at a red light a few years back. I went to the website to watch the video, and of course there was no video of the violation.

But, did you fully stop to turn right at that red? Because, you're likely 1 in 100 that do when traffic doesn't force it.

 

[Knowing]

Evidence suggests another city has been caught using red light cameras as a revenue scheme, and that city is Chicago.

This happened in Schaumburg before it happened here. A 5 year old could have called this. I should start a blog.

I should add, of course the city does absolutely nothing at the lights where 3 or 4 cars will proceed after the opposing traffic's light has turned green or on my campus or UIC where drivers speed at least 15 over while disregarding signage obligating them to stop for pedestrians.

 

[SlowSpyder]

But, did you fully stop to turn right at that red? Because, you're likely 1 in 100 that do when traffic doesn't force it.

Can't remember. I remember thinking the ticket was unjust.

Even if I did roll through without a complete 100% stop, is that a $100 offense though? Do we need electronic surveillance that is ineffective at increasing safety (in fact, maybe the opposite) so the government can catch someone rolling through a red at 1.3mph? But, the reality is big brother is watching, more so in some states than others, but always watching none the less.

 

[chucky2]

Dude, these towns want "free" money, of course it's $100 offense!

 

[smackababy]

Can't remember. I remember thinking the ticket was unjust.

Even if I did roll through without a complete 100% stop, is that a $100 offense though? Do we need electronic surveillance that is ineffective at increasing safety (in fact, maybe the opposite) so the government can catch someone rolling through a red at 1.3mph? But, the reality is big brother is watching, more so in some states than others, but always watching none the less.

What you're asking is that even if you did break the law, was the monetary fine given justified? Sure.

As for them causing more rear end collisions, that is laughable. So, people actually obeying the law causes those not paying attention to have more wrecks? Color me shocked!

Stop running red lights and speeding if you don't want to get fined for it. Plain and simple...

 

[Knowing]

Stop running red lights and speeding if you don't want to get fined for it. Plain and simple...

Legal fatalism is a bad look, consider for a moment what it's been used to justify in the past. A police officer with the benefit of context and the ability to issue a warning is infinitely superior to an accuser that I cannot face in court.

 

[smackababy]

Legal fatalism is a bad look, consider for a moment what it's been used to justify in the past. A police officer with the benefit of context and the ability to issue a warning is infinitely superior to an accuser that I cannot face in court.

So, would you rather that a city employ a police officer at every stop light, costing the city money rather than a camera that gives the city money? The argument that a ticket may be given in error and you have no way to fight it (if the video, photo, etc isn't available), but that is hardly a real concern.

I'd rather legal fatalism than entitlement to break laws I feel aren't "good".

 

[Zorba]

So, has anyone actually seen how people in Chicago drive? They run red lights. They don't start to stop when it turns yellow; they don't have the intersection cleared when the light turns. Anyone making an unprotected left will be in the middle of the intersection and start their turn after the light as went from yellow to red.

And, now they bitch about getting a ticket for breaking the law. Fuck those assholes. I'd double their fines if I was an appeal judge.

When I learned to drive in Oklahoma this method was taught by the Oklahoma State driving book. It looks like the book has been updated now and doesn't address this either way now. I remember it clearly because I was shocked that was actually the correct way to yield at a lighted intersection.

 

[Zorba]

So, would you rather that a city employ a police officer at every stop light, costing the city money rather than a camera that gives the city money? The argument that a ticket may be given in error and you have no way to fight it (if the video, photo, etc isn't available), but that is hardly a real concern.

I'd rather legal fatalism than entitlement to break laws I feel aren't "good".

I am sure you have never broken any traffic laws, right? Even on accident? Never turned into the wrong lane, or switched lanes too close to an intersection? Ever follow too close, or failed to signal at least 100 feet before the turn? Ever tint your car windows?

BTW: I think fines/punishments being a profit center creates bad incentives. So I am fine with hiring more cops and getting rid of the cameras.

 

[Knowing]

So, would you rather that a city employ a police officer at every stop light, costing the city money rather than a camera that gives the city money? The argument that a ticket may be given in error and you have no way to fight it (if the video, photo, etc isn't available), but that is hardly a real concern.

I'd rather legal fatalism than entitlement to break laws I feel aren't "good".

Giving the city money, by itself, is a piss poor reason to do something. I would prefer that the police officers issue tickets at lights that are dangerous or dysfunctional.

I consider the way our justice system works to be of serious concern. I don't think the right to face your accuser was just shoehorned in there because it made the document more aesthetically pleasing. I'd rather break laws that harm no one than suffer the chilling effect of the watchful eye and the same ridiculous logic used by racists and homophones.

 

[smackababy]

I am sure you have never broken any traffic laws, right? Even on accident? Never turned into the wrong lane, or switched lanes too close to an intersection? Ever follow too close, or failed to signal at least 100 feet before the turn? Ever tint your car windows?

BTW: I think fines/punishments being a profit center creates bad incentives. So I am fine with hiring more cops and getting rid of the cameras.

I have broken traffic laws, although I always try not to. And, every ticket I've gotten, even if it was what I would consider bullshit*, I paid it. I am not trying to act as if I never break the law, just that I am not going to bitch about it when I get caught.


*I got a speeding ticket for going 70 in a 55. I merged onto a highway from a highway (the one I was coming from had a speed limit of 70) and wrongfully assumed the one I merged onto had the same. It was, rather, 55 not 70. Upon being pulled over, I just kind of remarked that to the cop and he said "yeah, we get that a lot. It goes back to 70 about a mile up the road too". And, considering I was traveling between states, he knew I wasn't going to fight this...

 

[Zorba]

I have broken traffic laws, although I always try not to. And, every ticket I've gotten, even if it was what I would consider bullshit*, I paid it. I am not trying to act as if I never break the law, just that I am not going to bitch about it when I get caught.


*I got a speeding ticket for going 70 in a 55. I merged onto a highway from a highway (the one I was coming from had a speed limit of 70) and wrongfully assumed the one I merged onto had the same. It was, rather, 55 not 70. Upon being pulled over, I just kind of remarked that to the cop and he said "yeah, we get that a lot. It goes back to 70 about a mile up the road too". And, considering I was traveling between states, he knew I wasn't going to fight this...

Yeah, I think some state purposefully put out few speed limit signs and they don't put them in logical places, like merge areas.

 

[SlowSpyder]

What you're asking is that even if you did break the law, was the monetary fine given justified? Sure.

As for them causing more rear end collisions, that is laughable. So, people actually obeying the law causes those not paying attention to have more wrecks? Color me shocked!

Stop running red lights and speeding if you don't want to get fined for it. Plain and simple...

All I'm saying is that there is a difference between something on paper and in practice. If the laws don't reflect reality and cause more harm than good, maybe the law is in fact the problem. Kind of one of the principles this country was founded on.

Really the reason I don't think I like it is because it feels like domestic surveillance. I just don't feel the government needs to keep an eye on everyone all the time, that isn't freedom.

 

[smackababy]

All I'm saying is that there is a difference between something on paper and in practice. If the laws don't reflect reality and cause more harm than good, maybe the law is in fact the problem. Kind of one of the principles this country was founded on.

I would think laws like speed limits and traffic lights do a lot more good than harm. You're free to believe that everyone will drive at a safe speed and yield at intersections without penalties against such, but you're wrong. =)

Really the reason I don't think I like it is because it feels like domestic surveillance. I just don't feel the government needs to keep an eye on everyone all the time, that isn't freedom.

The thing is, America isn't so about total freedom, just "freedom enough". And, having the ability to enforce these laws that protect everyone is always going to be a problem. More cops, with one at every major traffic light? A large cost on the tax payer and critics will still cry police state. Cameras that can dispense a small fine get criticisms as well. I just think they are a better alternative. Sure, they don't actually promote safety as much as they just punish those against them, but get a ticket for running a light, and you are likely to not do it again. Hurting your wallet is the best way to remedy things like that.

 

[SlowSpyder]

I would think laws like speed limits and traffic lights do a lot more good than harm. You're free to believe that everyone will drive at a safe speed and yield at intersections without penalties against such, but you're wrong. =)

I didn't say that. I am saying that I think there is a difference on paper between a stop and a rolling 'stop'. But in practice if I'm paying every bit as much attention and roll through a stop sign at 1mph the difference between the two is pretty small.

The thing is, America isn't so about total freedom, just "freedom enough". And, having the ability to enforce these laws that protect everyone is always going to be a problem. More cops, with one at every major traffic light? A large cost on the tax payer and critics will still cry police state. Cameras that can dispense a small fine get criticisms as well. I just think they are a better alternative. Sure, they don't actually promote safety as much as they just punish those against them, but get a ticket for running a light, and you are likely to not do it again. Hurting your wallet is the best way to remedy things like that.

I'm not calling for anarchy. But I feel the country is a far cry from what it was meant to be, what it is supposed to be. I probably haven't had a ticket that cost points or fender bender in 15 years / 200,000 miles. I'm a safe driver without cameras... even with my rolling stops. If the cameras haven't helped safety, and may have in fact caused more accidents, then what are they doing? What are they there for? If it is just to generate revenue, that could get kind of ugly in the future. What laws will get priority enforcement if revenue is held above public safety 20, 50, or 100 years from now?

 

[CZroe]

Mythbusters seemed to think they were quite difficult to beat.

http://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/m...database/way-to-beat-police-speed-cameras.htm

.

Speed cameras and traffic light cameras usually aren't the same thing. Not sayin' the tricks are more or less effective though.