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Funny story @ work with Dell Dimensions, Palm Vx's, and serial ports... <Intel Bashing>

B

beer

Lifer
Today I came to work, and I had to diagnose a bad Palm setup - one day, this lady's Palm Vx would no longer hot sync. I diagnosed it as a bad serial port - it appeared fine in Windows, but it would no longer start a hot sync, nor read a serial mouse. So I gave Dell a call.

First off, the first guy I talked to immediately transferred me since he knew JACK about NT4. So I got to talk to a nice, very smart, NT4 &quot;specialist&quot; about this issue.

I told him what happened. He agreed that it looks like a bad serial port.

Dell Guy: &quot;Yeah, it sounds like a bad port. Oh, yeah, we're getting reports that those Vx's are toasted serial ports. It's due to a bad Intel serial port controller on the motherboard, and when you plug the cradle into the PC, even with it off, it will discharge into the serial port and fry it. But it only affects certain models of our desktops.&quot;

I was thinking that it mght be one, maybe two models..

Me: &quot;So what does it effect? I might write it down for our IT director.&quot;

Dell Guy: &quot;&quot;Well, it only affects Dimenson desktops.&quot;

Me: &quot;OK. What series?&quot;

Dell guy: &quot;Umm..B series, D series, T series, M series, R series, P series <lists off some more.&quot;

Me: &quot;So, everything really made in the last five years?&quot;

Dell Guy: &quot;Well, basically, yes. But no reports on the L series having this problem.&quot;

Me: &quot;This is an L series.&quot;

Dell Guy: &quot;Damn, I better add that to the list...jeez...&quot;

At this point I had to put him on hold, I was laughing so hard. Stupid Intel, can't even make a damn serial port controller work, I guess we can't expect them to make 1.13 GHz P3s, now can we?

Thought you all would find it funny.
 
Hey Tony =)

Got that Thunderbird working now. Stable at 850...just need to figure out why the hell I keep locking up in Q3, methinks its damn Win2k +)

But RC5 is stable! Yay!
 
Ouch That's Pathetic. Intels sucks hard.

Anyways, are you sure she didn't lose admin rights for some wierd reason. The User must have Admin rights to Hot Sync.
 
Tried it as administrator too.
Like I said, one night it worked fine; the next day it wouldln't work, at all.
 
Is it only an issue with Intel motherboards or with all Intel chipset motherboards? My Palm V syncs fine on my Abit BX motherboard.
 
I dunno.
I will see if I can get more details.
But I would assume it only certain OEM boards.
And, it's only the Vx - not the V.
 
I guess, yesterday after I hung up on the call between Dell and this lady, I guess he told her that it was a software issue since if Windows sees the port, it is not damaged. He then basically hung up on her. Damn.

That's why our company has a policy where whenever we call Dell with a serious issue, one of us IT guys moderates the call to make sure the Dell guys don't try to pull a quick one on the property managers - they are that, property managers, not computer people. So today we called back, and after getting transferred to the NT support, I insisted that it was a blown serial port and cited an example. Basically, I said, if you fry a NIC, Windows will still see it, it will still eat an IRQ, and it will be there in every respect, but it won't transmit or receive. This is akin to this serial problem - it can be there, but if it is damaged, then it won't work.

This guy agreed with me and is sending a technician tomorrow to handle the issue (aka replacing the mobo).

I don't think too highly of most Dell support reps; but everytime I call from the office, and get transferred to NT guys, I very rarely am left unhappy, since they know their stuff.

Long live NT4. Down with Intel and their crappy serial ports!! Yeah!!
 
/me looks at his Palm Vx, his serial port cradle, and his Asus P3B-F.

I've used this Palm Vx for close to 8 months now and there's been *no* problems at all. I suppose it's just Intel's motherboard design.
 
Appearantly, according to the Dell guys, the Palm Vx pulls more voltage than the port allows, and eventually, they will burn out.

He said it's Intel's fault for the faulty chip. I asked him off-the-record if he knew of any conflicts with Irongate motherboards (such as mine), he said he didn't know but it was due to an Intel defect, so most likely not.

Damn for my company, good for home, I guess.
 


<< Appearantly, according to the Dell guys, the Palm Vx pulls more voltage than the port allows >>



This doesn't exactly sound like a problem with Intel chipsets - it sound more like Palm exceeded the current drive spec of the port.

The 16550 UART spec/chip used to drive the serial ports on motherboards have been around for a long time. The spec has been set in stone (with a few minor revisions) since the early seventies. It sounds like Palm, in order to enable users not to have to dock their Vx's in a cradle plugged into the wall, set it up to pull the current needed to charge the Li batteries in the Vx off of the serial port. The chips were not designed to run in high current mode over an extended period of time and EM is causing failure - heck the serial port is intended to be a communications bus - not a Lithium Ion battery recharger.

There's two possibilities: either Intel screwed up and messed up a chip that they have been integrating
into chipsets and motherboards for the last 20 years.

Or Palm dramatically exceeded the current drive specifications for the 16550 UARTs, didn't see any failures in their initial tests , and didn't consider the fact that a continuous high current draw off of the ports over a long period of time would cause EM damage to the UART. We all know that Li batteries draw high currents when charging - remember the early reports of fires?

Just because you, Elemental, have only seen it fail on Intel motherboards/chipsets (which are all Dell uses), doesn't necessarily mean that it doesn't happen on other motherboards/chipsets.

Edit: FWIW, I don't know anything about this problem. I just read the post and it sounded to me like it was more Palm's problem than Intel's. Heck, the serial ports aren't typically prone to failure for conventional uses (like external modems) - if they are failing when you plug a Vx into them, doesn't that imply that suspicion be aimed at Palm first and Intel second?
 
The Palm Vx's cradle includes a little power adapter thing that goes into the wall that charges the LiIon battery of the Palm. The power connects to a little thing on the DB9 interface. Without it you can only HotSync.
 
If you want a technical explanation, call Dell, and speak to their NT guys. They are very familiar with this topic.
 
The only way I can see something bad happening with the Vx hooked up to the board is if the power adapter for the Palm cradle is actually feeding the serial port some power - and perhaps frying it - but not the other way around.

Possible? Maybe... likely? Probably not. But hey, it's a guess.
 
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