Fun with uninsured motorists

[Vette73]

^

Make sure your health insurance company is named as a plantiff if you do sue or at least find out if they will come after you if you get money.

One bad case I remember was a guy gets injured and has wal-mart insurance. He sues the other person but wal-mart came after him for what they paid out. I guess he had a idiot for a lawyer and did not bring wal-mart into the lawsuit.

 

[jaydee]

I sincerely wish you well.

Being in Colorado, my question is: Did you waive the policy for uninsured/underinsured motorist (detailed below)? If you did not, I don't understand why a lawyer has to be involved in order to collect on the medical (in which case, your medical insurance doesn't pay for this, your auto insurance company does). If you did waive this policy, I don't understand what a lawyer can do for you considering you opted out of this sort of protection in writing.

As far as the deductable goes, that's part of the policy, the agreement you signed with with your insurance company or agent. You can sue the individual who caused this for the deductable, but it's completely illogical to sue the insurance company for it. If someone burns my house down, insurance covers it, I can't just sue the ins. co. for the deductable. I can sue the person who set my house on fire. The insurance company is not a representative for the uninsured person.



http://www.rmiia.org/auto/steering_through_your_auto_policy/Auto_Insurance_Colorado_Requirements.asp

Uninsured/Underinsured motorist (UM/UIM) coverage covers medical and other expenses when you are hit by a driver without adequate auto insurance. You can purchase additional coverage to pay for damage to your car if hit by an uninsured motorist, but many people instead just purchase collision and comprehensive.

In Colorado, insurers are required to offer UM/UIM in the same amount as the bodily injury liability limits you select. UM/UIM can be waived only if it’s rejected in writing. You may select limits starting at $25,000/$50,000 (same as Colorado's minimum liability limits) on up to the same amount of liability coverage you purchase on your own policy. Most people choose to carry it because it can cover your economic damages such as medical bills, as well as some non-economic damages should the person who hit you be uninsured or underinsured.

In short, I would highly recommend you go over your policy with your insurance agent and try to work things out with them based on your coverage, before even thinking about lawyers.

 

[v8envy]

For the hundredth time, I -==> * D O * <==-- have UM. I did not waive it. Which is why my insurance company is involved at all.

I've already talked to my insurance company. But like the attorney I consulted with said, their aim is to reduce claims. They'd like me to pay for as much as I'm willing. The problem is, I'm not very willing.

Once again, the claim is NOT against my comprehensive coverage to which a deductable applies. Let's pretend I didn't have comp on the car -- what then? By your logic I sue the other guy -- but UM policy makes that unnecessary. Deductable, pain & suffering, loss of quality of life, rental car, loss of work -- covering me for these things are not part of my agreement with my insurance company for MY POLICY. If the accident was my fault I wouldn't even dream of trying to get that. However, my wife wasn't at fault in this accident and what happens is UM effectively covers the other guy. In can reasonably expect to not be damaged by this event.

My insurance company is expected to lowball me because they do number crunching, and to them the much higher settlement cost in the small number of cases where attorneys are involved is less than costs of payout when they're NOT involved. Since attorneys don't take property damage cases on contingency these numbers work out -- most accidents are injury free. Property damage is almost never high enough for the victim to pay for a lawyer out of pocket. Let's say my car was worth 15k, and the insurance company offers 12. That's not big enough for a lawyer to bother with, so with no choice I take what they offer.

Now, in the case of injury the typical settlement is 6x medical bills. Now we're talking 12k + 60k -- for 20-40k I suddenly have my choice of legal representation.

I did talk to my agent, and their initial position is much like yours. They'll cover me by a claim against my comprehensive, my health insurance covers hospital, I pay the deductables and for everything else I can go pound mud.

I also talked to several personal injury lawyers (a neighbor and the law firm she recommended as specializing in exactly these situations) and the story they're telling is far more palatable to me than what my agent is offering. My coverage is irrelevant, other than having UM and the higher 100/300 amount on liability. Yes, the insurance company will ultimately pay 3-4x as much as what would have been fair in the first place (and the guy at fault will be sued for 10x), but that's what needs to happen because I'll be the one being screwed otherwise.

I started this as a solicitation for advice, but now I'm giving feedback based on my experience. Consulting with an attorney specializing in uninsured/underinsured motorist injury cases is the BEST thing to do first.

Yes, we'll probably be dropped by our insurance company as a result. But seeing as both of us have perfect driving records for the past 20+ years, several rental houses, business, valuables, umbrella and other insurance policies to take with us it's likely we'll get at least as good of rates/coverage with any other co.

 

[LTC8K6]

Yeah this story seems odd. This shouldn't be complicated, and he should be covered.

 

[LTC8K6]

I thought your insurance would cover your losses, both car and medical, and then your insurance would try to go after the other guy to recoup.

 

[jaydee]

For the hundredth time, I -==> * D O * <==-- have UM. I did not waive it. Which is why my insurance company is involved at all.

What I was asking was: does your uninsured policy cover medical? That's the issue at stake. Obvisouly it covers the car damage.

I've already talked to my insurance company. But like the attorney I consulted with said, their aim is to reduce claims.

Keep in mind that your attorney and your insurance company have the same goal of making money. I guess technically, your insurance company is trying to save money while your attorney's goal is to make money off this situation. Lawyers aren't necessarily the noble party in these cases.

I wish you luck.

 

[Spicedaddy]

I really don't get why you'd want to sue your own insurance company. You say you're insured against uninsured motorists, so that'll pay for the car damage, and your medical insurance will pay the medical bills.

You can sue the other driver for the deductibles, loss of value on your accidented car, loss of revenue for missed work days, compensation for long term effects of injuries. But if your car/medical insurance don't cover these things and you sue them, you'll lose in court.

Anyways, I'm not a judge, but be careful with lawyers, they want to sue everybody. Hope your wife is OK BTW.

 

[alkemyst]

its clear you arent looking to be just made whole, but attempting to win your own lotto.

your medical should be covered, i have no idea why you are claiming it's not...unless you are wanting it to be 6x med.

sounds like over a couple days loss of work (which for most would qualify for sick time) you want to become another person fucking up our economy and insurance.

what's the total in your head you expect?

 

[MJinZ]

So my wife was rear ended pretty hard by a guy arrested on the spot for driving under the influence. And by hard I mean highway off-ramp, the guy didn't even try to slow down from ~45.

Joy of joys, turns out he also didn't have insurance. I wouldn't be surprised if his BMW is severely upside down on loan front.

Have any of you had to deal with a situation like this? What did you do? What pitfalls should I be watching out for?

We have uninsured motorist insurance, of course. But suing our own insurance company (that we've had for decades) just seems like it'll be bad. In addition all sorts of deductables apply, no rental car coverage, etc etc.

Do you know what insurance is?

 

[Dirigible]

Sorry to hear OP. Hope your wife recovers fully.

Sure sounds like your insurance company is trying to weasel out of covering what they should with your policy. Wish you luck in forcing them to fulfill their responsibilities, and sucks you need to go through that.

 

[v8envy]

its clear you arent looking to be just made whole, but attempting to win your own lotto.

your medical should be covered, i have no idea why you are claiming it's not...unless you are wanting it to be 6x med.

sounds like over a couple days loss of work (which for most would qualify for sick time) you want to become another person fucking up our economy and insurance.

what's the total in your head you expect?

Right now I'm paying for medical myself. Every time we buy a prescription or she goes to the doctor I pay a co-pay, with a bill to come later. Maybe it's a misunderstanding or wires crossed, but at the moment my understanding is I won't be reimbursed deductables, transportation, etc.

Why should HER EMPLOYER foot the bill for sick time? Would it change anything if she were hourly and not salaried and only paid for time she works? Not the case at the moment for her, but definitely for me and for her in the past.

From your tone I'm guessing you'd also trivialize things like not being able to spend time with kids and being in pain. Also being x-rayed and eating narcotics and pain killers.

And because of attitudes like yours I'm suddenly glad we DO have ambulance chasers. Yes, I know they're not noble white knights, but in this instance their interests coincide with ours.

You may be happy to not "fuck with our economy and insurance" by footing much of the bill and suffering nobly in silence if you were on my end. Good for you. Not everyone is.

I'm looking to get the $ diff between what my car WAS worth and what it'll be worth after rebuild, *all* expenses covered (deductables, rental, time lost from work). Could be wires crossed, but at the moment I'm looking at several K in lost car value + comprehensive deductable, several more K in healthcare deductables and another K or two in rental car and out of work time that insurance is NOT offering to cover. Oh, and an upfront hospital bill of about 5k + paramedic bill of 1k and maybe another 1 in medical deductables over the next few months. Add all of the above and that's what I'd have to pay interest on if I didn't have an emergency stash sitting around. Let's call it an even 10 grand with $0 on the pain aspect, both physical and in the ass metaphorical. I'll be happy to get that by the time the dust settles, but probably won't.

Your attitude makes it sound like my wife WENT OUT OF HER WAY to be stopped where she'd be hit by a drugged out uninsured guy to wind up in the hospital strapped to a board by paramedics for 4 hours just so we could get offered wholesale trade-in on our car. Really? REALLY? Jesus H, it makes me a horrible person but for a brief moment I hoped you'd have the same opportunity to win the insurance lottery this way in the future.

 

[CRXican]

LMAO at wanting to sue your own insurance. There's no reason they shouldn't pay your full medical bills seeing as you're saying it's only around $12,000. They will eventually sue the other party to recoup that money. That's not your problem.

I was just working at a collection agency that collected on the judgments against the uninsured motorists just like the ones in your case. Some of the judgments paid the insured $60,000 in UM Medical. Others collected their full $15,000, $25,000 or whatever other amount. You paid for the coverage, they have to cover you.

 

[v8envy]

Sorry to hear OP. Hope your wife recovers fully.

Sure sounds like your insurance company is trying to weasel out of covering what they should with your policy. Wish you luck in forcing them to fulfill their responsibilities, and sucks you need to go through that.

You mostly get it. No, they're trying to get me to accept being covered with my own insurance coverage. Luckily, with UM, lawyer and injury in the mix what should happen is the exact same thing as if the guy was insured. A law firm will get rich, and an irresponsible guy is likely to wind up owing my insurance company a mountain of cash.

TL;DR -- we make the claim exactly as if he was insured, but against our company. Odds are high we'll need a lawyer to get more than just partial $.

 

[v8envy]

LMAO at wanting to sue your own insurance. There's no reason they shouldn't pay your full medical bills seeing as you're saying it's only around $12,000. They will eventually sue the other party to recoup that money. That's not your problem.

I was just working at a collection agency that collected on the judgments against the uninsured motorists just like the ones in your case. Some of the judgments paid the insured $60,000 in UM Medical. Others collected their full $15,000, $25,000 or whatever other amount. You paid for the coverage, they have to cover you.

That's my understanding too, and hopefully that's the final outcome. Our policy is for 300k personal injury, so that shouldn't be a problem at all. And it was definitely a relief to find out we wouldn't have to go after the guy at fault, so really this topic can be closed. UM + uninsured motorist = no-op.

 

[alkemyst]

Right now I'm paying for medical myself. Every time we buy a prescription or she goes to the doctor I pay a co-pay, with a bill to come later. Maybe it's a misunderstanding or wires crossed, but at the moment my understanding is I won't be reimbursed deductables, transportation, etc.

Why should HER EMPLOYER foot the bill for sick time? Would it change anything if she were hourly and not salaried and only paid for time she works? Not the case at the moment for her, but definitely for me and for her in the past.

From your tone I'm guessing you'd also trivialize things like not being able to spend time with kids and being in pain. Also being x-rayed and eating narcotics and pain killers.

And because of attitudes like yours I'm suddenly glad we DO have ambulance chasers. Yes, I know they're not noble white knights, but in this instance their interests coincide with ours.

You may be happy to not "fuck with our economy and insurance" by footing much of the bill and suffering nobly in silence if you were on my end. Good for you. Not everyone is.

I'm looking to get the $ diff between what my car WAS worth and what it'll be worth after rebuild, *all* expenses covered (deductables, rental, time lost from work). Could be wires crossed, but at the moment I'm looking at several K in lost car value + comprehensive deductable, several more K in healthcare deductables and another K or two in rental car and out of work time that insurance is NOT offering to cover. Oh, and an upfront hospital bill of about 5k + paramedic bill of 1k and maybe another 1 in medical deductables over the next few months. Add all of the above and that's what I'd have to pay interest on if I didn't have an emergency stash sitting around. Let's call it an even 10 grand with $0 on the pain aspect, both physical and in the ass metaphorical. I'll be happy to get that by the time the dust settles, but probably won't.

Your attitude makes it sound like my wife WENT OUT OF HER WAY to be stopped where she'd be hit by a drugged out uninsured guy to wind up in the hospital strapped to a board by paramedics for 4 hours just so we could get offered wholesale trade-in on our car. Really? REALLY? Jesus H, it makes me a horrible person but for a brief moment I hoped you'd have the same opportunity to win the insurance lottery this way in the future.

you may want to look at some of my past posts...my ex wife was hit by an underinsured motorist, required two surgeries to fix a BROKEN neck. she was laid up about six months, we had to drop out of University of Florida (i was starting Pharmacy college)

we took the limits of our policy plus a homeowners umbrella. we were stuck with about $100k of shortfall due to needing a second surgery, it worked out in the end.

we werent looking to profit from it. pain and suffering was a mere $40k. she bought a nicer car and it covered some comfort items while she was stuck in bed all those months.

not my insurance companies fault

 

[exdeath]

Uninsured motorists should be shot on sight IMO. They are basically openly declaring that they are willing to be reckless and don't care what they do to other people and their property and they refuse to be responsible for damage they cause others.

Some people have to work all their lives for property, sometimes even in jobs that risk their own life, to obtain property. Thus property == life to those people.

People should be held responsible for their own actions, not have to always put out and play CYA for *other* people who can't keep their hands and cars to themselves.

Thus sue the shit out of him. Not for your own profit; even if you get $0 out of him, ruin that inconsiderate fvcks life until he learns to respect others, since his parents obviously failed.

 

[alkemyst]

if sueing him that be great and all but chances are he'd have no assets.

the op is looking to sue the insurance company.

 

[v8envy]

if sueing him that be great and all but chances are he'd have no assets.

the op is looking to sue the insurance company.

I really feel horrible about my momentary thoughts having read your experience. I presume the guy that hit you had 0 in assets to go after? Truly horrible.

Anyway, suing the insurance co is likely what I'd be doing even if he was insured. Just not my co, his co - if they didn't offer a fair settlement. Which IMO never happens without a lawyer. Last time someone turned in front of me and my car was totaled the best I could get was wholesale trade-in for it. Which wasn't fun on a car still under warranty.

When I first talked to my agent about this they were trying to settle by having MY policy be hit for this via collision coverage w/ deductable, and my health insurance for hospital (as some here recommended as a resolution). That ain't gonna fly.

As far as exdeath: I feel exactly the same way. I had mentioned suing him for restitution before -- but that's only needed in case insurance was insufficient. Infinitely unlikely to be the case. What will happen is our insurance will wind up paying somewhere between 17 and 70k, but then go after him. With a lawyer involved it's more likely he'll wind up owing a *LOT* even if I don't get any better than break even or slight loss.

Turns out in CO if you drive without insurance you get... a $100 ticket (plus $75 court costs). If you don't show proof of either having obtained insurance or having surrendered your driver's license by your court date there's another possible fine and a possible 1 week of jail time which you can serve on weekends.

No WONDER there's so many uninsured motorists out there causing havoc. If you have no assets it's an easy calculus to make -- very low risk of a $100 ticket or paying thousands in insurance every year.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Dude, he should have had better coverage, but he was at least legal.
No coverage at all should not have a drivers license, should not have a car, and should not be on the fvcking road! He should sue the fvcker, and as long as it doesn't cost him out of pocket for the lawsmith, then get the best damn laswmith that he can afford....

That said ... rental coverage is not something I will ever be without unless I have an extra car .... rental cars are fvcking expensive, and sometimes body shops take FOREVER....

I wont say a lot, but many people get the fly by night insurance so they can register their car, then drop it and keep that practice up hoping nothing happens.

As far as rental goes. GET IT. Even though I have a 2nd vehicle, I have rental on my policy. It's like $4 a month.

 

[alkemyst]

I really feel horrible about my momentary thoughts having read your experience. I presume the guy that hit you had 0 in assets to go after? Truly horrible.

Anyway, suing the insurance co is likely what I'd be doing even if he was insured. Just not my co, his co - if they didn't offer a fair settlement. Which IMO never happens without a lawyer. Last time someone turned in front of me and my car was totaled the best I could get was wholesale trade-in for it. Which wasn't fun on a car still under warranty.

When I first talked to my agent about this they were trying to settle by having MY policy be hit for this via collision coverage w/ deductable, and my health insurance for hospital (as some here recommended as a resolution). That ain't gonna fly.

As far as exdeath: I feel exactly the same way. I had mentioned suing him for restitution before -- but that's only needed in case insurance was insufficient. Infinitely unlikely to be the case. What will happen is our insurance will wind up paying somewhere between 17 and 70k, but then go after him. With a lawyer involved it's more likely he'll wind up owing a *LOT* even if I don't get any better than break even or slight loss.

Turns out in CO if you drive without insurance you get... a $100 ticket (plus $75 court costs). If you don't show proof of either having obtained insurance or having surrendered your driver's license by your court date there's another possible fine and a possible 1 week of jail time which you can serve on weekends.

No WONDER there's so many uninsured motorists out there causing havoc. If you have no assets it's an easy calculus to make -- very low risk of a $100 ticket or paying thousands in insurance every year.

They had assets. They only had 25/50/25 insurance. You can't take the policy and then sue the person really.

That said I ran into a guy with no insurance (he set up the accident and tried to sue me)...

fortunately he only got about $10k...which was probably a gold mine to him.

The sad part of all this I have have been following him on our county's webengine. It's been about 2 years and he still is getting tickets (along with a suspended license). They put this fuck on a payment plan even before I hit him and he still defaults on the plan.

Yet he is still free to roam.

 

[v8envy]

They had assets. They only had 25/50/25 insurance. You can't take the policy and then sue the person really.

That's not what my insurance agent said when selling me higher coverage, so laws appear to differ state to state. In other words, if I hit someone and cause 500k in damage I'm liable for 500k, even if my insurance only covers 25/50/25 of the damages. Makes sense -- if your liabilty was capped at your insurance why would anyone pay for more coverage?

It gets complicated from there -- umbrella coverage, the victim's health insurance, underinsured motorist insurance all get thrown in the mix. The law firm I'm talking to has an entire web site devoted to uninsured/underinsured motorists so looks like in colorado you might not have been screwed quite so badly. You could have gone after the person for restitution over and above their insurance.

Anyhoo, turns out this guy does have a job, and he was driving high on a suspended license. That's why he had no insurance. According to the accident report the cop cited him for DUI, driving on a suspended license and reckless driving. Since he provided an insurance company name and policy number he wasn't cited for no insurance, but I'm sure that'll get thrown into the pot as well.

It's not that he has zero assets. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that you either can't get insurance w/o a license or he figured he wouldn't be driving a whole lot without one.

I feel pretty positive for the first time since the accident. Looks like I'll continue to hemorrhage money short term, but long term both I and my insurance company should recover everything.

 

[v8envy]

fortunately he only got about $10k...which was probably a gold mine to him.

Many decades ago my dad ran into a guy with no insurance. It was reasonably clear my dad was at fault in the collision. But you know what happened? The *OTHER* person was cited as at fault in the accident because they were simply not authorized to operate a vehicle on a public road, and that was of a higher order offense than failure to yield. The officer investigating the wreck could have cited both, but apparently felt strongly enough about uninsured motorists to not do so.

Sure, the uninsured guy could still sue -- but one of the pre-requisites for being awarded a judgement is the other person being at fault. When one party is cited for the accident and the other is not, courts strongly tend to favor the party cops feel wasn't the problem.

 

[alkemyst]

That's not what my insurance agent said when selling me higher coverage, so laws appear to differ state to state. In other words, if I hit someone and cause 500k in damage I'm liable for 500k, even if my insurance only covers 25/50/25 of the damages. Makes sense -- if your liabilty was capped at your insurance why would anyone pay for more coverage?

It gets complicated from there -- umbrella coverage, the victim's health insurance, underinsured motorist insurance all get thrown in the mix. The law firm I'm talking to has an entire web site devoted to uninsured/underinsured motorists so looks like in colorado you might not have been screwed quite so badly. You could have gone after the person for restitution over and above their insurance.

Anyhoo, turns out this guy does have a job, and he was driving high on a suspended license. That's why he had no insurance. According to the accident report the cop cited him for DUI, driving on a suspended license and reckless driving. Since he provided an insurance company name and policy number he wasn't cited for no insurance, but I'm sure that'll get thrown into the pot as well.

It's not that he has zero assets. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that you either can't get insurance w/o a license or he figured he wouldn't be driving a whole lot without one.

I feel pretty positive for the first time since the accident. Looks like I'll continue to hemorrhage money short term, but long term both I and my insurance company should recover everything.

Here is the deal. If you have the assets to warrant a high limit policy then you could be found guilty of under insuring and all bets are off.

However, in almost all places if you carried the limits your company offers then no matter how much assets you have that would be considered proper.

If someone wanted to go after a $500k judgement on a $300k policy, they'd have to sue that person privately. Insurance will not pay out unless you accept it as settlement.

 

[v8envy]

If someone wanted to go after a $500k judgement on a $300k policy, they'd have to sue that person privately. Insurance will not pay out unless you accept it as settlement.

Isn't this what you're doing in the first place? You're going after the person that caused damage. They have insurance (or UM covers them with your insurance) to guarantee they are financially solvent enough to pay out the covered amount. Was that an effect of tapping your insurance since you had better coverage? I could see that being the case -- final settlement with your insurance, or you're on your own trying to collect from the other guy.

It's clearly obvious laws and regulations are too complex and whimsical for a layman like myself. There's no reason to know any of this stuff until everything is done, and by then it's too late. Just that much more reason to make sure to identify good lawyers before you need them I guess.

 

[PingSpike]

Uninsured motorists should be shot on sight IMO. They are basically openly declaring that they are willing to be reckless and don't care what they do to other people and their property and they refuse to be responsible for damage they cause others.

Some people have to work all their lives for property, sometimes even in jobs that risk their own life, to obtain property. Thus property == life to those people.

People should be held responsible for their own actions, not have to always put out and play CYA for *other* people who can't keep their hands and cars to themselves.

Thus sue the shit out of him. Not for your own profit; even if you get $0 out of him, ruin that inconsiderate fvcks life until he learns to respect others, since his parents obviously failed.

The trouble with this is the guy probably has no life to ruin. I assume he's driving around a BMW with an upside down 31% loan, probably already had his license suspended for DUI and could barely hold down a job since he was a waste case. He let his insurance lapse because its not like he fucking has anything to take. His shitty life probably won't end up any different whether he gets sued or not.