Full Review: 9800GX2 vs HD3870X2!!!

[Extelleron]

Not a very exciting card as expected.

If you have unlimited money and need the fastest single card available, then the 9800GX2 will be for you. For regular consumers, though, it offers a horrible price-performance ratio.

3870 X2 will likely cost around ~$400 in the upcoming months and the new GDDR4 version should improve performance slightly. The 9800GX2 ends up being around 50% more expensive and not nearly 50% faster.

At this point the best bet for most people is to pick up either an 8800GT or HD 3870 and wait until later this year to spend more money. The 9800GX2 is overpriced and when compared to the price of the 3870, so is the HD 3870 X2.

 

[batmang]

Well, since I already have a 3870 512MB, I'm saving for a 3870X2. That would be neato to have big brother and little brother, working together.

 

[v8envy]

Originally posted by: batmang
Well, since I already have a 3870 512MB, I'm saving for a 3870X2. That would be neato to have big brother and little brother, working together.

Neat, yes. Expensive, definitely. You'll need a lot more CPU than you've got to make that kind of setup perform significantly better than a single 3870.

AMD may surprise us with a 4ghz Phenom, but for now that kind of setup would probably demand a 3.6 ghz Intel quad or 4.5 ghz dual to truly shine in every game. Looks like you'll be joining the rest of us on the dark side!

 

[batmang]

Originally posted by: v8envy

Originally posted by: batmang
Well, since I already have a 3870 512MB, I'm saving for a 3870X2. That would be neato to have big brother and little brother, working together.

Neat, yes. Expensive, definitely. You'll need a lot more CPU than you've got to make that kind of setup perform significantly better than a single 3870.

AMD may surprise us with a 4ghz Phenom, but for now that kind of setup would probably demand a 3.6 ghz Intel quad or 4.5 ghz dual to truly shine in every game. Looks like you'll be joining the rest of us on the dark side!

True. I'm pretty happy with the single 3870. Awesome card IMO. The only game that REALLY challenges it is Crysis, which challenges every card.

 

[theprodigalrebel]

It was then the GeForce 9800GX2 moved to the Striker II Formula platform, where it managed to perform all tests. On the other hand, the 3870 X2 maintained its stability on both platforms. We have to give credit to AMD on its compatibility advantage. In conclusion, we would advice those considering the 9800 GX2 to get a Nvidia chip based motherboard.

Maybe it's just a kink with the Gigabyte X48 motherboard. If this turns out to be true (or a big enough problem) for various P35/X38/X48 etc. motherboards, this kind of defeats the purpose of 'SLI on single card' for the benefit of those that don't have an nforce SLI motherboard.

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: batmang

Originally posted by: v8envy

Originally posted by: batmang
Well, since I already have a 3870 512MB, I'm saving for a 3870X2. That would be neato to have big brother and little brother, working together.

Neat, yes. Expensive, definitely. You'll need a lot more CPU than you've got to make that kind of setup perform significantly better than a single 3870.

AMD may surprise us with a 4ghz Phenom, but for now that kind of setup would probably demand a 3.6 ghz Intel quad or 4.5 ghz dual to truly shine in every game. Looks like you'll be joining the rest of us on the dark side!

True. I'm pretty happy with the single 3870. Awesome card IMO. The only game that REALLY challenges it is Crysis, which challenges every card.

The problem with 3-way and 4-way Crossfire is that Crysis scaling is not good. Since that's the only game that really has problems with a single-card config (at a reasonable resolution) there is not much benefit to upgrading at this point.

And v8envy, you don't really need a super-fast CPU to take advantage of Crossfire X. Anandtech's initial tests, which were performed with a 2.6GHz Phenom, saw good scaling for up to 4 GPUs.

 

[Sutareteiru]

Originally posted by: Extelleron
Not a very exciting card as expected.

If you have unlimited money and need the fastest single card available, then the 9800GX2 will be for you. For regular consumers, though, it offers a horrible price-performance ratio.

3870 X2 will likely cost around ~$400 in the upcoming months and the new GDDR4 version should improve performance slightly. The 9800GX2 ends up being around 50% more expensive and not nearly 50% faster.

At this point the best bet for most people is to pick up either an 8800GT or HD 3870 and wait until later this year to spend more money. The 9800GX2 is overpriced and when compared to the price of the 3870, so is the HD 3870 X2.

Your reference to the price-performance ratio is based on? the only information about performance we have is the 3dmark06 which of course gives a rough idea of performance but results can differ from actual gameplay results tremendously. So until actual gameplay and finalized drivers come out for the GX2 there's no real reason to bash on it when without hard data.


As for the reference to the price of the 3870x2 dropping to around $400 is a fair assumption, however wouldnt it also be reasonable to assume that the price of the GX2 will drop as newer technology reveals itself?

I agree the 8800 GT is a great buy and to each situation the gx2 might be a better choice, or it might be worse, let's at least give the gx2 a chance to prove itself on gameday rather than bash it into the ground before it even releases.

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: Sutareteiru

Originally posted by: Extelleron
Not a very exciting card as expected.

If you have unlimited money and need the fastest single card available, then the 9800GX2 will be for you. For regular consumers, though, it offers a horrible price-performance ratio.

3870 X2 will likely cost around ~$400 in the upcoming months and the new GDDR4 version should improve performance slightly. The 9800GX2 ends up being around 50% more expensive and not nearly 50% faster.

At this point the best bet for most people is to pick up either an 8800GT or HD 3870 and wait until later this year to spend more money. The 9800GX2 is overpriced and when compared to the price of the 3870, so is the HD 3870 X2.

Your reference to the price-performance ratio is based on? the only information about performance we have is the 3dmark06 which of course gives a rough idea of performance but results can differ from actual gameplay results tremendously. So until actual gameplay and finalized drivers come out for the GX2 there's no real reason to bash on it when without hard data.


As for the reference to the price of the 3870x2 dropping to around $400 is a fair assumption, however wouldnt it also be reasonable to assume that the price of the GX2 will drop as newer technology reveals itself?

I agree the 8800 GT is a great buy and to each situation the gx2 might be a better choice, or it might be worse, let's at least give the gx2 a chance to prove itself on gameday rather than bash it into the ground before it even releases.

The 9800GX2 may be worth it for some people, but I think it is hard to argue that it is a good deal for $600. Even if you skip comparing it to the 3870 X2, it is certainly not 3X faster than the 8800GT for more than 3X more, in fact, close to 4X more if you look at the current deals on 8800GT cards.

I don't think the 9800GX2 is going to fall much below $600. It's an expensive card to produce...G92 is a huge chip compared to RV670 and ther 9800GX2 also has 2 PCBs. The cooling needed to deal with the insane amount of heat produced by 2X G92 running at 600MHz is probably also pretty expensive. And finally, I think the 9800GX2 is a niche product like the 7800GTX 512MB... nVidia is releasing it so one of their cards occupies the title of "fastest single card available." I don't think you're going to see many 9800GX2 cards available.

 

[v8envy]

Originally posted by: Extelleron

And v8envy, you don't really need a super-fast CPU to take advantage of Crossfire X. Anandtech's initial tests, which were performed with a 2.6GHz Phenom, saw good scaling for up to 4 GPUs.

If you look closely the titles showing the best scaling were mostly older titles (circa 2006) which were targeted to run on lower end CPUs. Yes, a 2.6 ghz CPU is not going to hold them back. COD4 is the exception.

The one game which could benefit most from 4x GPUs is Crysis. It's also known to be a CPU pig. That's why it shows absolutely no scaling from 3 to 4 gpus at any resolution, and very poor scaling from 1 to 2 to 3. I expect that's why you didn't see good scaling for WIC either. <-- edit: oops, you already made this point.

I know you can't buy for the future, and 3x/4x crossfire is certainly looking like the way to fly if you're going to play 2006 games at 25x16, no FSAA and medium settings. Modern titles (Flight sim X, Supreme Commander, UT3) are trending towards demanding buckets of CPU as well as GPU for the higher end eye candy.

I'd have loved to see the HL2 lost coast demo scaling as well. That's the first game benchmark I've had demonstrate my machine's CPU bottleneck even with a single 8800GT. Granted, I had to clock down to 2.6 ghz to see it, but still.

 

[Sutareteiru]

Originally posted by: Extelleron

Originally posted by: Sutareteiru

Originally posted by: Extelleron
Not a very exciting card as expected.

If you have unlimited money and need the fastest single card available, then the 9800GX2 will be for you. For regular consumers, though, it offers a horrible price-performance ratio.

3870 X2 will likely cost around ~$400 in the upcoming months and the new GDDR4 version should improve performance slightly. The 9800GX2 ends up being around 50% more expensive and not nearly 50% faster.

At this point the best bet for most people is to pick up either an 8800GT or HD 3870 and wait until later this year to spend more money. The 9800GX2 is overpriced and when compared to the price of the 3870, so is the HD 3870 X2.

Your reference to the price-performance ratio is based on? the only information about performance we have is the 3dmark06 which of course gives a rough idea of performance but results can differ from actual gameplay results tremendously. So until actual gameplay and finalized drivers come out for the GX2 there's no real reason to bash on it when without hard data.


As for the reference to the price of the 3870x2 dropping to around $400 is a fair assumption, however wouldnt it also be reasonable to assume that the price of the GX2 will drop as newer technology reveals itself?

I agree the 8800 GT is a great buy and to each situation the gx2 might be a better choice, or it might be worse, let's at least give the gx2 a chance to prove itself on gameday rather than bash it into the ground before it even releases.

The 9800GX2 may be worth it for some people, but I think it is hard to argue that it is a good deal for $600. Even if you skip comparing it to the 3870 X2, it is certainly not 3X faster than the 8800GT for more than 3X more, in fact, close to 4X more if you look at the current deals on 8800GT cards.

I don't think the 9800GX2 is going to fall much below $600. It's an expensive card to produce...G92 is a huge chip compared to RV670 and ther 9800GX2 also has 2 PCBs. The cooling needed to deal with the insane amount of heat produced by 2X G92 running at 600MHz is probably also pretty expensive. And finally, I think the 9800GX2 is a niche product like the 7800GTX 512MB... nVidia is releasing it so one of their cards occupies the title of "fastest single card available." I don't think you're going to see many 9800GX2 cards available.

I agree that if you already have an SLi motherboard it would probably be more beneficial to grab yourself 2 8800gt's OC, but if you say just bought an EVGA card within the past 90 days that was a decent amount, and/or dont own an SLi Mobo, it might be beneficial to spend an extra couple hundred for a card that might blow everything else away. Otherwise you would be spending about $200 on a new Mobo, then about $400 on new 8800gt's which would basically be buying a gx2. So its a toss up, i just can't wait to see the card in action, depending on the tests that come out and i hope most will at least wait til we see those tests before just writing the card off.

 

[Rusin]

Originally posted by: Aberforth

Originally posted by: Rusin
Wonder what kind of performance this one would have with new 174.51 drivers..

nothing earth shattering, trust me

Well should be better.. I mean 8800 GT SLI already is that around 40% (on average) faster than HD3870 X2..and this is just timedemos.

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: Janooo

Originally posted by: nitromullet
...
Personally, based on these numbers I think the 8800GT SLI + 780i board is the best route. It is the most expensive, but it offers the best performance across the board, the most options for upgrades, plus you don't have to buy all the pieces at once if you don't want to.

As far as 680i vs. 780i... Agreed, you don't need a 780i board, but if buying a new SLI board it doesn't make sense to go with 680i anymore IMO.

Well, your CPU overclock won't be the same as with an Intel board.

I thought 780i was decent clocker... no?

I'm on the fence myself. I actually just got back from fry's a few hours ago. I picked up a single 8800GT and an EVGA 780i motherboard with the intention of adding another 8800GT after all of my pending ebay auctions clear... I decided that I would go ahead and install the 8800GT in my existing P35 board first just to make sure everything was cool with it before beginning the tear down and rebuild with the 780i board.

Well, so I fired up the 8800GT in the P35 rig and played a little Crysis, a little Hellgate, and a little WoW... Hmm... Not bad for a $229 card with a $30 rebate slip. The thing is, I had all of these games set to how I had played them with the 3870 X2 I just sold, and ya know... I can't tell the difference between the two. Now, I'm sure that the X2 had higher fps if one was measuring with fraps, but honestly from just a gamer's 'blind' perspective on a 1920x1200 lcd (I actually run crysis and hellgate scaled at 1920x1080) I couldn't tell the difference whatsoever. I was a little surprised myself...

The 780i motherboard is still sealed in the box, and I considering just running the 8800GT in the P35, returning the 780i, and calling it a day.

 

[schneiderguy]

Originally posted by: Rusin

Originally posted by: Aberforth

Originally posted by: Rusin
Wonder what kind of performance this one would have with new 174.51 drivers..

nothing earth shattering, trust me

Well should be better.. I mean 8800 GT SLI already is that around 40% (on average) faster than HD3870 X2..and this is just timedemos.

I doubt nvidia can squeeze much more performance out of the GX2 with better drivers. They've had a few years to work on the G80 SLI drivers

 

[rgallant]

Originally posted by: Sutareteiru

Originally posted by: Extelleron

Originally posted by: Sutareteiru

Originally posted by: Extelleron
Not a very exciting card as expected.

If you have unlimited money and need the fastest single card available, then the 9800GX2 will be for you. For regular consumers, though, it offers a horrible price-performance ratio.

3870 X2 will likely cost around ~$400 in the upcoming months and the new GDDR4 version should improve performance slightly. The 9800GX2 ends up being around 50% more expensive and not nearly 50% faster.

At this point the best bet for most people is to pick up either an 8800GT or HD 3870 and wait until later this year to spend more money. The 9800GX2 is overpriced and when compared to the price of the 3870, so is the HD 3870 X2.

Your reference to the price-performance ratio is based on? the only information about performance we have is the 3dmark06 which of course gives a rough idea of performance but results can differ from actual gameplay results tremendously. So until actual gameplay and finalized drivers come out for the GX2 there's no real reason to bash on it when without hard data.


As for the reference to the price of the 3870x2 dropping to around $400 is a fair assumption, however wouldnt it also be reasonable to assume that the price of the GX2 will drop as newer technology reveals itself?

I agree the 8800 GT is a great buy and to each situation the gx2 might be a better choice, or it might be worse, let's at least give the gx2 a chance to prove itself on gameday rather than bash it into the ground before it even releases.

The 9800GX2 may be worth it for some people, but I think it is hard to argue that it is a good deal for $600. Even if you skip comparing it to the 3870 X2, it is certainly not 3X faster than the 8800GT for more than 3X more, in fact, close to 4X more if you look at the current deals on 8800GT cards.

I don't think the 9800GX2 is going to fall much below $600. It's an expensive card to produce...G92 is a huge chip compared to RV670 and ther 9800GX2 also has 2 PCBs. The cooling needed to deal with the insane amount of heat produced by 2X G92 running at 600MHz is probably also pretty expensive. And finally, I think the 9800GX2 is a niche product like the 7800GTX 512MB... nVidia is releasing it so one of their cards occupies the title of "fastest single card available." I don't think you're going to see many 9800GX2 cards available.

I agree that if you already have an SLi motherboard it would probably be more beneficial to grab yourself 2 8800gt's OC,{ but if you say just bought an EVGA card within the past 90days that was a decent amount, and/or dont own an SLi Mobo,} it might be beneficial to spend an extra couple hundred for a card that might blow everything else away. Otherwise you would be spending about $200 on a new Mobo, then about $400 on new 8800gt's which would basically be buying a gx2. So its a toss up, i just can't wait to see the card in action, depending on the tests that come out and i hope most will at least wait til we see those tests before just writing the card off.

-Thats the boat I'am in , the stepup from my 8800gts 512 ends Mar.19 th not much time to look at reviews. (if it's on Evga''s stepup program)
-could come down to the changes in the new G92-450,are the specs up or down from the G92-400 ?

BUT if the 9800GX@ has problems with todays drivers what will it be like 2 years from now when it's at the bottom of the list, I wonder ?

 

[nanaki333]

i probably would be getting this if i had an nforce board. i have a p35 and it'd be a huge waste since i may not even be able to enable sli. guess i have to settle for my 3870x2

 

[Rusin]

Originally posted by: schneiderguy
I doubt nvidia can squeeze much more performance out of the GX2 with better drivers. They've had a few years to work on the G80 SLI drivers

Well that's G80. They have made decent work with G92 and specially G94.

 

[lopri]

With default 'High' setting, 8800 GT SLI get approx. 35FPS in Crysys (1920x1200, DX10 render path). The review shows 9800 GX2 averaging 41FPS at the same configuration, so at the very least the 9800 GX2 looks to be equal to 8800 GT SLI. (counting drivers improvement)

 

[BFG10K]

The currently broken AA is alarming.

 

[ronnn]

Yep, looks like at this time at resolutions I never use the ati card wins. Wouldn't buy either myself. Actually have found myself more interested in my son's xbox as he isn't too cheap to buy games.

 

[n7]

Hmm, i had pretty much already written this refresh from nV off.

Seems to be a lot stronger with AA, when it works...
Not surprising considering how weak AMD is with AA though.

But for $600 with all kinds of driver issues & limitations?
Not remotely worth it.

Of course, neither is the HD 3870X2.

Guess i'll be waiting for a long time before getting a new video card, unless some magic propels the 9800 GTX to far better performance than realistically possible.

 

[lopri]

Originally posted by: BFG10K
The currently broken AA is alarming.

I can't seem to force AA using the Control Panel (8800 GT SLI). Is it a known issue?

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: lopri

Originally posted by: BFG10K
The currently broken AA is alarming.

I can't seem to force AA using the Control Panel (8800 GT SLI). Is it a known issue?

Which drivers are you using? The last WHQL set I was using with my 8800GTS 512 had the same issue. I'm using the 174.31 (from guru3d) drivers now, and it seems to work.

What BFG is referring to is that in the review posted in this thread, the 9800GX2 failed to run with AA enabled for many of the benchmarks. They don't really make it clear what that means though... Were they just not able to force AA in the driver, or did it crash?

 

[reviewhunter]

Originally posted by: nitromullet

What BFG is referring to is that in the review posted in this thread, the 9800GX2 failed to run with AA enabled for many of the benchmarks. They don't really make it clear what that means though... Were they just not able to force AA in the driver, or did it crash?

The review says it gets an error screen like and bounce back into Windows:
http://img178.imageshack.us/im...1080313geforce9br2.jpg

 

[reviewhunter]

Originally posted by: reviewhunter

Originally posted by: nitromullet

What BFG is referring to is that in the review posted in this thread, the 9800GX2 failed to run with AA enabled for many of the benchmarks. They don't really make it clear what that means though... Were they just not able to force AA in the driver, or did it crash?

The review says it gets an error screen like and bounce back into Windows:
http://img178.imageshack.us/im...1080313geforce9br2.jpg

sorry sorry, think I misunderstood the review.
The error screen is referring to the error encountered while the 98GX2 is running on the X48 board, not the AA thing.

 

[reviewhunter]

guys, do read the review again, seems like the author, the one in English, updated the review.
http://lly316.blogspot.com/200...radeon-hd-3870-x2.html

I spotted these changes:

CoJ --> Although the 9800 GX2 is 1 fps faster than the AMD, but it was unable to run the benchmark with 4xAA turn on. It happened at the moment the benchmark begins, it bounced right back into desktop. Therefore, the score is recorded as zero.


UT3--> Correction:
Just like the previous game benchmarks, 9800 GX2 took the lead easily without AA.
But performance decreased drastically with 4xAA/16xAF turned on, resulting with a single digit fps on the average. Thus the score is once again recorded as zero. (There were no errors encountered here)


WIC--> Again, when AA is turned on for the GeForce 9800 GX2, an error message appears. Thus the score is recorded as zero.

Do tell me if you spotted other changes.