Full cover vs. core-only GPU waterblocks

[Rodknock]

Another question:

What seems to be the better deal, price/performance wise: the Swiftech MCW60 or the Dtek Fuzion GFX? I like the Dtek cpu and gpu block combo deal on Petra's Tech, I'm leaning towards that option. Opinions?

 

[DerwenArtos12]

Originally posted by: Rodknock
Another question:

What seems to be the better deal, price/performance wise: the Swiftech MCW60 or the Dtek Fuzion GFX? I like the Dtek cpu and gpu block combo deal on Petra's Tech, I'm leaning towards that option. Opinions?

The d-tek GPU block is really restrictive but, I suppose if they're on seperate loops it shouldn't hurt performance too much, what's the real price difference between the two?

 

[Rodknock]

I can't seem to get anything right...

I was trying to save a few bucks by going with the combo deal, but if it's really that bad I guess I won't bother. I'm curious though, how do you know it's so restrictive? From the way you guys describe some of these products, it sounds like they shouldn't even be sold they suck so much...yet there they are. So are we just splitting hairs here or is there a real measurable difference?

 

[DerwenArtos12]

Originally posted by: Rodknock
I can't seem to get anything right...

I was trying to save a few bucks by going with the combo deal, but if it's really that bad I guess I won't bother. I'm curious though, how do you know it's so restrictive? From the way you guys describe some of these products, it sounds like they shouldn't even be sold they suck so much...yet there they are. So are we just splitting hairs here or is there a real measurable difference?

There is a measurable difference in flow and in dual loop set-ups i can honnestly say I don't know how the d-tek will perform, especially with a 655b on 5 pushing it, probably quite well but, the swiftech60 is the gpu block right now. honestly I'd hold off as I know aigo has more data on the d-tek alone than I do. You're now realizing the reason that my customers get pure swiftech systems, it saves me the time of keeping up with an area that I'm not as proficient in as with air cooling. I'll throw and mcp655b with an mcr320 and an apogee gtx and teh mcw60 or a DD branded hwlabs full cover into a system with some decent fans and my customer will be happy. And I thank the gods for that regularly or my life would get a lot more complicated. For people on here we want to make sure you're getting the pinacle of performance because you'll either already know how or will learn how to really push it so second best isn't good enough.

 

[Rodknock]

Originally posted by: DerwenArtos12


There is a measurable difference in flow and in dual loop set-ups i can honnestly say I don't know how the d-tek will perform, especially with a 655b on 5 pushing it, probably quite well but, the swiftech60 is the gpu block right now. honestly I'd hold off as I know aigo has more data on the d-tek alone than I do. You're now realizing the reason that my customers get pure swiftech systems, it saves me the time of keeping up with an area that I'm not as proficient in as with air cooling. I'll throw and mcp655b with an mcr320 and an apogee gtx and teh mcw60 or a DD branded hwlabs full cover into a system with some decent fans and my customer will be happy. And I thank the gods for that regularly or my life would get a lot more complicated. For people on here we want to make sure you're getting the pinacle of performance because you'll either already know how or will learn how to really push it so second best isn't good enough.

You're right, I am aiming for the best setup possible, or near it. I definitely don't like the idea of settling for a pre-built kit. Not that there's anything wrong with that for many people, I'm just a bit OCD when it comes to getting the best tech. Probably like you and most of the Anandtech crowd, heh.

My problem is I am very new to watercooling. I have next to zero experience with it, and up until last month I had never even done any research on watercooling parts because I never thought I'd want to get involved in it. It's a bit overwhelming, to be honest. I'm always on the verge of saying "Ah fuck it, I'll throw on a Tuniq Tower and be done with it." But, I'm always interested in getting the best bang for my buck, and overclocking certainly fits the bill.

Well, after tonight though there's no going back, muhahaha. I ordered the first big batch of parts from Petra's and I'll be swinging by there Thursday to pick them up. I ordered:

Dtek Fuzion cpu block, Swiftech MCW60 gpu block, 2 Swiftech Micro Reservoirs, and 2 Swiftech MCR220s. Too bad they were out of 7/16 Tygon or I would've got that out of the way as well. Things are finally coming together. The hard part is soon to come, though haha:d

 

[DerwenArtos12]

Originally posted by: Rodknock

Originally posted by: DerwenArtos12


There is a measurable difference in flow and in dual loop set-ups i can honnestly say I don't know how the d-tek will perform, especially with a 655b on 5 pushing it, probably quite well but, the swiftech60 is the gpu block right now. honestly I'd hold off as I know aigo has more data on the d-tek alone than I do. You're now realizing the reason that my customers get pure swiftech systems, it saves me the time of keeping up with an area that I'm not as proficient in as with air cooling. I'll throw and mcp655b with an mcr320 and an apogee gtx and teh mcw60 or a DD branded hwlabs full cover into a system with some decent fans and my customer will be happy. And I thank the gods for that regularly or my life would get a lot more complicated. For people on here we want to make sure you're getting the pinacle of performance because you'll either already know how or will learn how to really push it so second best isn't good enough.

You're right, I am aiming for the best setup possible, or near it. I definitely don't like the idea of settling for a pre-built kit. Not that there's anything wrong with that for many people, I'm just a bit OCD when it comes to getting the best tech. Probably like you and most of the Anandtech crowd, heh.

My problem is I am very new to watercooling. I have next to zero experience with it, and up until last month I had never even done any research on watercooling parts because I never thought I'd want to get involved in it. It's a bit overwhelming, to be honest. I'm always on the verge of saying "Ah fuck it, I'll throw on a Tuniq Tower and be done with it." But, I'm always interested in getting the best bang for my buck, and overclocking certainly fits the bill.

Well, after tonight though there's no going back, muhahaha. I ordered the first big batch of parts from Petra's and I'll be swinging by there Thursday to pick them up. I ordered:

Dtek Fuzion cpu block, Swiftech MCW60 gpu block, 2 Swiftech Micro Reservoirs, and 2 Swiftech MCR220s. Too bad they were out of 7/16 Tygon or I would've got that out of the way as well. Things are finally coming together. The hard part is soon to come, though haha:d

Have you already got your TJ-07? Don't think of assembly as the hard part, think of it as the fun part. And remember, it's more than a one step process. Even the guys that have been doing it for too long shouldn't be doing it in one step, as aigomorla can tell you. Getting in a hurry is just going to make life tough.

what are you going to do with your TJ-09 now that you're going to the dark side?

 

[Rodknock]

Probably sell it. I've already given some previous hand-me-down cases to my mother, and then one to a friend of mine when I built a rig for him. I can't really think of anything *to* do with it. It's in perfect condition as far as I can tell.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Guys were all here to learn or have fun whatever. Lets look at this guys problem and see what we come up with. I won't comment till latter.

Now I only read the OPs post . In the spirit of fun please read only the OPs post . Lets learn and have some fun with this OK.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/f...howthread.php?t=176978

 

[RealGun]

its like adding another 2-3feet of tubing straight up vertical

No, more like 5-10"

I read an article a while ago about cooling the core only with no heatsinks on the memory and cooling both. This was with air and a while ago. The funny thing was that the core remained cool but even without the heatsinks the memory was cool also. This was due to all the copper line from meory to core. Basically the heatsinks were a waste of time as long as the core itself was cooled.

I had an older 7800GT with a full cover block and it seemed the flow was restricted.

I now use an MCW60 an Apogee GT and a MCW30 chipset block in a loop with just a DB-1 pumping water.

The CPU idles @ 22C loads at 42C
GPU idles @ 24C and loads @ 30C

Othos and rthdribl_1_2 running Small stuff on CPU.
CD2 4500@ 3GHz 1.30V Limit is 3.3 but I like stable with my raid setup.
Radeon 3870 875 core 1250 memory. The memory is not that good on this card.
I am still testing the limits on the core.
On air the card could do 865/1200 fan @ 60%
Yes I flashed the cards BIOS so I can do better than 860 without a black screen.
I did leave the heatsinks in place on the card.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Length of run without a rise in head really doesn't restrict flow that much. IF the run is designed correctly. The number of turns and blocks you go threw does however. Length of run in a proper setup . NOT really referring to PCs here . IF its a longrun we use pipe stepping .

It is however possiable to use stepping with a pc. Lets take a PA160 and use as example.

The rad is a high flow rad. Its a single pass cross flow design using a 1" single core. The most restrictive part of this design is the inlet /outlet.

But notice something about All the PA rads . The Inlet /Out uses 3/8 BSPP thread rather than a common 1/4 Bspp. Thread. Now to myself this is a hugh deal . I think its wonderful.

What this allows is the use of a pump that has 3/4 inlet/ outlets To my knowledge none here or on any forums have used this to there advantage. What this does is allows the use of a single loop to multi blocks and still get good results.

Use 5/8ID line from the pumps to the raids from the rads5/8ID to a Y with one 5/8 Id and 2 3/8 ID tubes. Than do the same on the return side. Again I would use a ball valve on the3/8 line that goes to the block with the least resitance to flow.

I think you would be very surprised at. the results.

I personnally will never ever use 12V pumps again. I wouldn't buy the relays that are sold By PC parts vendors either. You can get so much nicer relays than these. Ya need the relays to turn on and off the pumps with the PC.

I think aleast 2 of you guys would be amazed at the results.

Now the last post I made if you look at the pic the guy posted XS. First thing that will Jump out at you is the Connector he uses to join the line together that should be solid .

Adding an orfice like he did there was not smart . Its just 1 of three problems with his setup.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Guys were all here to learn or have fun whatever. Lets look at this guys problem and see what we come up with. I won't comment till latter.

Now I only read the OPs post . In the spirit of fun please read only the OPs post . Lets learn and have some fun with this OK.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/f...howthread.php?t=176978

hey nemisis... im kinda lost on why you posted this?

i was following it on XS, the problem is simple. He mixed pumps.

I cant warn you guys enough about mixing pumps. If you dont know what your doing, Dont do it! its that simple.


Pumps need to be paired when in seriall. If you use flow adjusters you can use different pumps, but were getting way too advanced here.

Just dont mix pumps periods. Keep them identical.

 

[RealGun]

Nem. and Aig.???
Whats this got to do with OP?
Nothin.

Nem are you the Evo block person???

 

[Nemesis 1]

Good I am glad you guys walked threw that I missed it in the OPs post. Since I haven't read any further than that I will check latter to see what else I missed.

Now open the link look at the line going to and from the CPU. He resticted it to hell. See those connectors they act as orfice reducer . That is another problem . Reread my orginal post I said lets discuss this and see what all we come up with. I didn't catch the fact that he used 2 differant pumps in series. And as of yet I still haven't reread the post.

Now to you the 2 differant pumps in seies is a big deal and your right. But to me I paid no attention to it. The minute I see pumps in series I LOL. I don't care to increase head As I am 100% capable of putting to gether a system That won't require more head than I require . And get better results period.

I would rather have a Pump that gives me 540GPH=6.2gpm of flow @4'head. and use y on dual loop system. and only have about 10psi much better in a pc . to keep pressure a little lower . less chance of leaks than high head or pressure.

Another thing I would never do. Is use the connectors everybody uses. We use this type 37 degree . Zero orfice design straight threw. Now these are not what we use . We use much more expensive ones. But for annealed copper tubing these are great. Much better than what PC shops sell .

http://www.sspfittings.com/pro...t_page.asp?product=257

I can see clearly why so many have problems . Because the available information and parts used in PC are frankly lacking .

I have never understood this WE all have PCs that can read this . Your PC is a resource same as the internet is a resource. People should use these resources .

To many people selling and making water cooling parts that aren't qualified . Than many have problems. The best designed water cooling part out right now that is good is the PA series of RADs but you pay for them also. Their are good water blocks . Nothing to get excited about . I do like the FORGED ones tho . I heard the guy that sold his design to one of the forgers made some good $$$ for it. But the top is lacking on these.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: RealGun
Nem. and Aig.???
Whats this got to do with OP?
Nothin.

Nem are you the Evo block person???

lol... thats why i asked..



Nemisis... also a HWLABS BLACK ICE GTX WITH strong fans like sanace's will perform better then a PA series. But be at the same time a lot louder.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Originally posted by: RealGun
Nem. and Aig.???
Whats this got to do with OP?
Nothin.

Nem are you the Evo block person???

Reread the OP post this has everthing to do with it. Part selection and whats available.

As for your last Question NO. I walked away from getting my hands dirty 9 years ago . I wanted to work with fixing people. Just got out of school and started nursing . A month later a drunk crippled me in a car accident. After 3 operations and hundreds of test ,It didn't work out for me . nerve damage. Than from all the other testing they discovered other problems. So now I set infront of PC all day and night. I am only alone a little while during day as wife is always in here with me talking as she is on her pc . We watch very little TV . We use to game together all the time . But I really struggle gaming now. To fast for me. She plays and I chat.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1

Originally posted by: RealGun
Nem. and Aig.???
Whats this got to do with OP?
Nothin.

Nem are you the Evo block person???

Reread the OP post this has everthing to do with it. Part selection and whats available.

As for your last Question NO. I walked away from getting my hands dirty 9 years ago . I wanted to work with fixing people. Just got out of school and started nursing . A month later a drunk crippled me in a car accident. After 3 operations and hundreds of test ,It didn't work out for me . nerve damage. Than from all the other testing they discovered other problems. So now I set infront of PC all day and night. I am only alone a little while during day as wife is always in here with me talking as she is on her pc . We watch very little TV . We use to game together all the time . But I really struggle gaming now. To fast for me. She plays and I chat.

seriously dude.... tell your wife she has earned a lot of respect from me.

Also i want to see your wifey's rig. That would be a treat for me.


I think Nemisis means in picking parts for what you need and not to spice it up.

The bulk discussion is... in a serial loop, not paralell, having a gpu and cpu on the same loop will cause problems. To avoid it you want to use a core only block. If you plan to go performance, and get a dual loop system, which MOST people do on the second build, or go intensive paralell setup.

If you plan on dual looping, you can ignore performance on your cpu side, and go all out bling. So full EK blocks are okey in a gpu loop only system.

Application...

 

[Nemesis 1]

Originally posted by: aigomorla

Originally posted by: RealGun
Nem. and Aig.???
Whats this got to do with OP?
Nothin.

Nem are you the Evo block person???

lol... thats why i asked..



Nemisis... also a HWLABS BLACK ICE GTX WITH strong fans like sanace's will perform better then a PA series. But be at the same time a lot louder.

Has anyone you know of taken advantage of the 3/8 BSPP inlet/Outlet on the PA series of rads? I would hold off jugdement on that . Until that info is made available

 

[Nemesis 1]

I am so glad you mentioned EK . I wish he would stop in here . He is at XS all the time listening and getting advice. Great guy . I always wanted to mention to him that a straight in water inlet out let would be great . Some couldn't use it but he makes so many . He could sell those also.

I have a new design for a top . that I believe would change GPU water cooling and at the same time be less restictive than . Fusion or Vortex design . I really would like to see it used .


Back on to something aigomorla said earlier about high head. I was going to mention it earlier. But forgot until EK came up . We have all seen the vortex effect in those reservoirs. Now take A high head (pressure ) pumps in series or RD30 single. Now look at the vortec effect were seeing in those reservoirs . Now try to imagine whats going on in those water blocks. If you don't think we have seen these kinds of problems with 1100psi pumps your crazy. Is whats really crazy its so simple to fix. Think of the guy who invented bobby pin . Its even simpler than that.

She read your post. We called my son and daughter. We all agree. You will see my setup . I ordered the proto type today for my case. You will see everthing aigomorla. But my family and I want this to be my contribution to this board. If I can get Ed to help me I will stun you aigomorla. I kidd you not. Its important to me . Hopefully these fresh new ideas will change how people view a high performance PC water cooling . Granted the cost is going to be high for evertthing were planning. But You will see many new concepts that can be used by themselves or taken as a whole.

 

[imported_dinGLeBeRRy]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
I am so glad you mentioned EK . I wish he would stop in here . He is at XS all the time listening and getting advice. Great guy . I always wanted to mention to him that a straight in water inlet out let would be great . Some couldn't use it but he makes so many . He could sell those also.

I have a new design for a top . that I believe would change GPU water cooling and at the same time be less restictive than . Fusion or Vortex design . I really would like to see it used .


Back on to something aigomorla said earlier about high head. I was going to mention it earlier. But forgot until EK came up . We have all seen the vortex effect in those reservoirs. Now take A high head (pressure ) pumps in series or RD30 single. Now look at the vortec effect were seeing in those reservoirs . Now try to imagine whats going on in those water blocks. If you don't think we have seen these kinds of problems with 1100psi pumps your crazy. Is whats really crazy its so simple to fix. Think of the guy who invented bobby pin . Its even simpler than that.

She read your post. We called my son and daughter. We all agree. You will see my setup . I ordered the proto type today for my case. You will see everthing aigomorla. But my family and I want this to be my contribution to this board. If I can get Ed to help me I will stun you aigomorla. I kidd you not. Its important to me . Hopefully these fresh new ideas will change how people view a high performance PC water cooling . Granted the cost is going to be high for evertthing were planning. But You will see many new concepts that can be used by themselves or taken as a whole.

looking forward to it.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: dinGLeBeRRy

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
I am so glad you mentioned EK . I wish he would stop in here . He is at XS all the time listening and getting advice. Great guy . I always wanted to mention to him that a straight in water inlet out let would be great . Some couldn't use it but he makes so many . He could sell those also.

I have a new design for a top . that I believe would change GPU water cooling and at the same time be less restictive than . Fusion or Vortex design . I really would like to see it used .


Back on to something aigomorla said earlier about high head. I was going to mention it earlier. But forgot until EK came up . We have all seen the vortex effect in those reservoirs. Now take A high head (pressure ) pumps in series or RD30 single. Now look at the vortec effect were seeing in those reservoirs . Now try to imagine whats going on in those water blocks. If you don't think we have seen these kinds of problems with 1100psi pumps your crazy. Is whats really crazy its so simple to fix. Think of the guy who invented bobby pin . Its even simpler than that.

She read your post. We called my son and daughter. We all agree. You will see my setup . I ordered the proto type today for my case. You will see everthing aigomorla. But my family and I want this to be my contribution to this board. If I can get Ed to help me I will stun you aigomorla. I kidd you not. Its important to me . Hopefully these fresh new ideas will change how people view a high performance PC water cooling . Granted the cost is going to be high for evertthing were planning. But You will see many new concepts that can be used by themselves or taken as a whole.

looking forward to it.

LOL.... thats my RL Office Admin.. he's getting into the hobby, so ignore him.

 

[IanY]

My current preferences are dedicated loops with MCW60 and D-Tek Unisink. Of course, I am a crazed lunatic.

 

[DerwenArtos12]

Originally posted by: IanY
My current preferences are dedicated loops with MCW60 and D-Tek Unisink. Of course, I am a crazed lunatic.

you say crazed lunatic like it's a bad thing...