Full committee hearing- climate science in the House.

[Meghan54]

Quit trying to confuse him with facts....facts don't matter to tajjy or the current administration in Washington.

I really like this response. It's wrong on so many levels, yet it leaves you with so many outs.

You know that melting permafrost and tidal flooding of Miami Beach are signals of destructive climate change much harder to deny than model predictions. Since you don't have any sound bites against melting permafrost you throw shade at Miami Beaches flooding being caused by aman-made issue not related to climate change. This would link the two as being in a doubt or "unsettled science" to any lay person reading your post.

Now there's several ways for me to eviscerate your post. I could point out that Miami Beach gets it water piped in from Miami Dade county because no ground water is pumped out of the ground under a city built on a barrier island surrounded by salt water!

I could also point out that subsidence is an issue because some areas of the city were originally built on swampland. Scientists, being interested in reality and all, have taken both subsidence and sea level rise into account. Subsidence contributes to localized flooding but cannot account for all of the flooding seen.

University of Florida PDF
https://www.rsmas.miami.edu/users/swdowinski/presentations/2014-Wdowinski-SLR-Miami-Beach.pdf

Now I don't know if you are lucky or good but you left yourself some plausible deniability.

If you look at the map the City of Miami and Miami are separate cities. By referring to the "Miami Area" you can claim you weren't incorrectly referring to subsidence in Miami Beach! I'm betting you didn't know these were separate places and referring to Miami weakens your original post because no one has been directly using it as a example. But you can claim you weren't wrong ! At least until I have a chance to look at flooding and subsidence for Miami proper.

 

[agent00f]

I really like this response. It's wrong on so many levels, yet it leaves you with so many outs.

You know that melting permafrost and tidal flooding of Miami Beach are signals of destructive climate change much harder to deny than model predictions. Since you don't have any sound bites against melting permafrost you throw shade at Miami Beaches flooding being caused by aman-made issue not related to climate change. This would link the two as being in a doubt or "unsettled science" to any lay person reading your post.

Now there's several ways for me to eviscerate your post. I could point out that Miami Beach gets it water piped in from Miami Dade county because no ground water is pumped out of the ground under a city built on a barrier island surrounded by salt water!

I could also point out that subsidence is an issue because some areas of the city were originally built on swampland. Scientists, being interested in reality and all, have taken both subsidence and sea level rise into account. Subsidence contributes to localized flooding but cannot account for all of the flooding seen.

University of Florida PDF
https://www.rsmas.miami.edu/users/swdowinski/presentations/2014-Wdowinski-SLR-Miami-Beach.pdf

Now I don't know if you are lucky or good but you left yourself some plausible deniability.

If you look at the map the City of Miami and Miami are separate cities. By referring to the "Miami Area" you can claim you weren't incorrectly referring to subsidence in Miami Beach! I'm betting you didn't know these were separate places and referring to Miami weakens your original post because no one has been directly using it as a example. But you can claim you weren't wrong ! At least until I have a chance to look at flooding and subsidence for Miami proper.

Just a heads up import_taj was merely buckshitting, ie. posting random garbage to distract from whatever. Common error for liberals to take it as any sort of serious statement. He was only ever going to be not even wrong, but he never cared per expected degenerate behavior.

 

[sandorski]

The next Democrat President will once again spend all Its' energy on fixing a Republican President's mistakes. Let's hope that at least the Economy stays intact this time.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

The next Democrat President will once again spend all Its' energy on fixing a Republican President's mistakes. Let's hope that at least the Economy stays intact this time.

and the environment and the public education system

 

[imported_tajmahal]

The contribution of land subsidence to the increasing coastal flooding hazard in Miami Beach.
-3 mm per year. Peer reviewed, science, Miami Beach, subsidence.
Fiaschi/Wdowinski
www.ces.fau.edu/arctic-florida/pdfs/fiaschi-wdowinski.pdf

"Preliminary InSAR results detected localized subsidence, up to -3 mm/yr,
mainly in reclaimed land located along the western side of Miami Beach.
•  Although the detected subsidence velocities are quite low, their effect on
the flooding hazard is significant, because houses originally built on higher
ground have subsided since the city was built, about 80 years ago, by 16-24
cm down to flooding hazard zones.
•  The combined effect of subsidence and SLR further expose the subsiding
areas to higher flooding hazard than the rest of the city. "

 

[fskimospy]

The contribution of land subsidence to the increasing coastal flooding hazard in Miami Beach.
-3 mm per year. Peer reviewed, science, Miami Beach, subsidence.
Fiaschi/Wdowinski
www.ces.fau.edu/arctic-florida/pdfs/fiaschi-wdowinski.pdf

"Preliminary InSAR results detected localized subsidence, up to -3 mm/yr,
mainly in reclaimed land located along the western side of Miami Beach.
•  Although the detected subsidence velocities are quite low, their effect on
the flooding hazard is significant, because houses originally built on higher
ground have subsided since the city was built, about 80 years ago, by 16-24
cm down to flooding hazard zones.
•  The combined effect of subsidence and SLR further expose the subsiding
areas to higher flooding hazard than the rest of the city. "

You realize nothing in this disputes what he said, right?

 

[Meghan54]

You do understand you are proving Paratus's point when he said subsidence in Miami Beach was localized, which exactly what your linked art. said.....localized to areas built on reclaimed swampland.

The contribution of land subsidence to the increasing coastal flooding hazard in Miami Beach.
-3 mm per year. Peer reviewed, science, Miami Beach, subsidence.
Fiaschi/Wdowinski
www.ces.fau.edu/arctic-florida/pdfs/fiaschi-wdowinski.pdf

"Preliminary InSAR results detected localized subsidence, up to -3 mm/yr,
mainly in reclaimed land located along the western side of Miami Beach.
•  Although the detected subsidence velocities are quite low, their effect on
the flooding hazard is significant, because houses originally built on higher
ground have subsided since the city was built, about 80 years ago, by 16-24
cm down to flooding hazard zones.
•  The combined effect of subsidence and SLR further expose the subsiding
areas to higher flooding hazard than the rest of the city. "

 

[Meghan54]

You realize nothing in this disputes what he said, right?

Dang it....beat me to it, and no, I don't think he truly understands, at all.

 

[fskimospy]

You do understand you are proving Paratus's point when he said subsidence in Miami Beach was localized, which exactly what your linked art. said.....localized to areas built on reclaimed swampland.

Not to mention that piece says that subsidence is causing the effects of sea level rise to be felt more acutely there, but it in no way argues that sea level rise is not also a factor.

He basically repeated Paratus's point back at him, presumably because he is too incompetent to understand what he is reading.

 

[Paratus]

The contribution of land subsidence to the increasing coastal flooding hazard in Miami Beach.
-3 mm per year. Peer reviewed, science, Miami Beach, subsidence.
Fiaschi/Wdowinski
www.ces.fau.edu/arctic-florida/pdfs/fiaschi-wdowinski.pdf

"Preliminary InSAR results detected localized subsidence, up to -3 mm/yr,
mainly in reclaimed land located along the western side of Miami Beach.
•  Although the detected subsidence velocities are quite low, their effect on
the flooding hazard is significant, because houses originally built on higher
ground have subsided since the city was built, about 80 years ago, by 16-24
cm down to flooding hazard zones.
•  The combined effect of subsidence and SLR further expose the subsiding
areas to higher flooding hazard than the rest of the city. "

Yup that was the other link I found. - note the term localized. As they said and I mentioned:

...The subsiding areas correlate well with the areas that were built on reclaimed swamps.

From the PDF I linked:

• The local rate of SLR in Miami since 2006 is > 8 mm/yr, almost three times higher than the average global rate.

Cape Canaveral is seeing over 2X as much SLR and Key West 1.7X as much.

So sea level rise is contributing ~3X as much to flooding as the subsidence in Miami. Although subsidence is one factor the city planners can use to identify which areas are most at risk.

Boy it's almost like scientists are trying to understand all the local variables that put the city at risk and not just the "climate change" ones. Imagine that.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

It's also a flat out lie. Do you think there's that much difference in the temperatures between the 1930s and present day? Seriously? The graph is a lie, where did you get it?

That chart is from XKCD, authored by Randall Munroe, someone I guarantee has done more research on dozens of topics than you have done on a single thing you've ever argued about within this forum, and most likely anywhere else in life.

That chart is accurate, telling and *should* be an extremely simple and poignant example of what 'the whole climate change thing' is, and why it's alarming to anyone paying attention.

 

[thraashman]

That chart is from XKCD, authored by Randall Munroe, someone I guarantee has done more research on dozens of topics than you have done on a single thing you've ever argued about within this forum, and most likely anywhere else in life.

That chart is accurate, telling and *should* be an extremely simple and poignant example of what 'the whole climate change thing' is, and why it's alarming to anyone paying attention.

The funny thing is that he claims the chart shows a temp difference too high to be real, but if you point out it's slightly over 1 degree Celsius I'm sure he'd claim that's too low to be a big deal. Even thought it's an enormous amount to fluctuate globally in such a short period of time.

 

[agent00f]

That chart is from XKCD, authored by Randall Munroe, someone I guarantee has done more research on dozens of topics than you have done on a single thing you've ever argued about within this forum, and most likely anywhere else in life.

That chart is accurate, telling and *should* be an extremely simple and poignant example of what 'the whole climate change thing' is, and why it's alarming to anyone paying attention.

In all fairness conservatives research plenty how lower class browns and higher education are ruining their country.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

The funny thing is that he claims the chart shows a temp difference too high to be real, but if you point out it's slightly over 1 degree Celsius I'm sure he'd claim that's too low to be a big deal. Even thought it's an enormous amount to fluctuate globally in such a short period of time.

For someone to reject climate change, specifically human-induced climate change at all, indicates either a willful ignorance (at this point) or a severe misunderstanding of facts/inability to process information being presented. For that given person, understanding how a 1C of change over an exceptionally short (geologically) period of time can have massive, global influence is going to escape them entirely.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

In all fairness conservatives do plenty of research on how lower class browns and higher education are ruining their country.

I would argue that while they may spend an inordinate amount of money to get someone to state those things, to call it 'research' is disingenuous

EDIT: Oh, you meant the citizens, I thought you meant the politicians. Easily confused, my bad.