Fuel fears puncture US car sales

[theeedude]

People have double standards for Japanese and American cars. They bash Ford for not upgrading the Focus to the European platform, but Toyota can sell them Corolla that is way behind the US Focus in driving dynamics, and noone complains that Toyota acutally downgraded the Corolla from independent suspension to torsion beam when the current model came out. So Ford has to give them the Volvo platform at Corolla price, but Toyota can do all the costcutting it wants and still get praised.

 

[Nyati13]

Originally posted by: Stunt
I bet GM has 20 times the number of models as Toyota and are still getting beat...If I were GM, I'd kill saturn, GMC, chevy cars, buick, hummer, subaru and saab. Chevy Trucks, Pontiac and Caddy only. This way they can focus on what people really want and don't have all these odd brands nobody buys.

GM never had more than 30% of Subaru (Fuji Heavy Industries still had control of Subaru, and never used GM parts or engineering) and GM sold that part off 2 or 3 years ago. (Just in time for Subaru to enjoy double digit percentage sales growth for 3 or 4 straight years)

GM would have had no ability to 'kill' Subaru, even if they wanted to.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: ericlp
Text

Surging fuel prices have weighed on demand for sports utility vehicles (SUVs)and trucks, cutting into US sales for big name Detroit automakers.

Both General Motors (GM) and Ford have cut production as total May sales fell 16% and 6% respectively. Sales at Chrysler Group also fell 11%.

But Japanese carmaker sales continued to grow as consumers opted for smaller, more fuel efficient vehicles.

Toyota revealed sales surged 12.3% while sales at Honda grew 11.4%.

Hmmm, what will take to wake up the big 3 that America doesn't need V8's and V10's for daily driving? They must know that when gas prices go up .25 - .50 cents more per gallon next month that they will slide even more. Yet they continue to promote the V8 mustangs and V10 SUV's. I guess everyone is rich enough to get 17MPG at the pump?

I just got a new Toyota Corolla, 35MPG. And it's a nice solid car that has a strong 1.8L zippy engine... Best of all it's made right here in USA! Last ford I got transmission was made in France, and assembled in Mexico. Sad...

This article did leave out that car sales at the big 3 are up, just not up enough to offset the drop in other classes.

 

[BDawg]

Today I went to the grocery store. I went out to get my wife's pocket book. When I got to our car, there was an Excursion in the next spot. Someone was sitting in the passenger seat with the engine running.

When we returned with the groceries, there was a Montero there, same scenario.

The tempurature today? 77 with a good breeze. I drove home with the windows down.

And people wonder why gas is so expensive.

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: BDawg
Today I went to the grocery store. I went out to get my wife's pocket book. When I got to our car, there was an Excursion in the next spot. Someone was sitting in the passenger seat with the engine running.

When we returned with the groceries, there was a Montero there, same scenario.

The tempurature today? 77 with a good breeze. I drove home with the windows down.

And people wonder why gas is so expensive.

Having your windows down can decrease your MPG quite a bit.

 

[BDawg]

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: BDawg
Today I went to the grocery store. I went out to get my wife's pocket book. When I got to our car, there was an Excursion in the next spot. Someone was sitting in the passenger seat with the engine running.

When we returned with the groceries, there was a Montero there, same scenario.

The tempurature today? 77 with a good breeze. I drove home with the windows down.

And people wonder why gas is so expensive.

Having your windows down can decrease your MPG quite a bit.

I think it's a factor of speed. The greater your speed, the greater the effect. I was driving around town.

The point of the line was that they easily could've been sitting in the parking lot with the windows down.

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: BDawg

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: BDawg
Today I went to the grocery store. I went out to get my wife's pocket book. When I got to our car, there was an Excursion in the next spot. Someone was sitting in the passenger seat with the engine running.

When we returned with the groceries, there was a Montero there, same scenario.

The tempurature today? 77 with a good breeze. I drove home with the windows down.

And people wonder why gas is so expensive.

Having your windows down can decrease your MPG quite a bit.

I think it's a factor of speed. The greater your speed, the greater the effect. I was driving around town.

The point of the line was that they easily could've been sitting in the parking lot with the windows down.

Yeah, I know, but I was just saying

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Originally posted by: BDawg
Today I went to the grocery store. I went out to get my wife's pocket book. When I got to our car, there was an Excursion in the next spot. Someone was sitting in the passenger seat with the engine running.

When we returned with the groceries, there was a Montero there, same scenario.

The tempurature today? 77 with a good breeze. I drove home with the windows down.

And people wonder why gas is so expensive.

Dude, stay out of your wife's purse!

 

[desy]

I took my mom car shopping a 2004 Camry was 5G more than a 2005 Malibu
Malibu had that the Camry didn't
V6
Aluminum wheels
ABS
Traction Control
Better handling and brakes

She bought the Malibu,
Japan has been coasting on their rep and they earned their rep by making reliable cars I can't fault tehm for that and now Ford and GM have to catch up Dodge is kickin ass in the styling dept.

in the 90's the Civic I had
No air
No second mirror
No radio
No cruise
No power sterring
No power Locks
No power windows
No floor matts
OF COURSE IT DIDN't BREAK what was left?
Buts thats why I bought it, new, service vehicle with no down time, excellent fuel economy
The lack of features is why I sold it and kept the Corsica

 

[BarneyFife]

Don't tell me that you didn't buy a radio for your car?

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Originally posted by: nergee

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc

Originally posted by: Stunt
SUV's are what is keeping GM afloat...why would they bite the hand that feeds them?
Where GM and Ford need to focus is on their economy and high volume vehicles. Honda and Toyota have been very lean making sure they offer only a few products that don't overlap and continuously improve ideas that already work well. Civic today is mechanically very similar to models in the 80's and 90's, same with the Corolla. GM and Ford are effectively competing with cars with 20 years of perfection and intense attention.

I bet GM has 20 times the number of models as Toyota and are still getting beat...If I were GM, I'd kill saturn, GMC, chevy cars, buick, hummer, subaru and saab. Chevy Trucks, Pontiac and Caddy only. This way they can focus on what people really want and don't have all these odd brands nobody buys.

The bolded section is an astute observation . . . ie fill most of a customers needs NOT all of their wants.........

Toyota & Honda clearly give customers things they want......quality, speed to market, pricing, and service just to name a few.....

You misunderstand me . . . everything you cited are NEEDS. It's expected that manufacturers produce a quality product, at a reasonable price, and provide good service pre- and post-purchase.

My point is that its quite rare that a Toyota or Honda product fails to meet the needs of consumers. When people make rationale decisions about what to purchase it favors manufacturers that get the basic stuff right (needs) but give a little attention to wants as well. GM/Ford have a ridiculous amount of overlap b/c they are intent upon filling as many niches (of wants) as possible but that's arguably the primary reason they've done such a terrible job with the simple stuff.

Let's look at the extremes. Ford did a GREAT job with the GT but it's gone now . . . and what does Ford really have to show for it? Acura rolled out the NSX in 1991 @80k, yet within 3 years the engine technology (VTEC) was part of entry-level cars and now I believe the majority of Honda/Acura products have VTEC variants. What do you think the Focus, Zephyr, or even Mustang will inherit from the GT?

 

[desy]

It was optional
I put in a kick ass after market system
Same for the cruise Honda didn't offer cruise on the base Civic
If I moved up to the DX over the CX a lot more stuff came standard

 

[Thump553]

Newsweek had an article recently that said the big boats are still selling strong (Cadillac Escalade just had a record month) and fuel sippers are hurting (Honda Civic sales down).

 

[GroundedSailor]

Originally posted by: Zedtom
Fuel is the major factor, but public relations are important too.

I now own only foreign cars. I grew tired of going to GM dealerships and having service "advisors" tell me that certain expensive parts had to be replaced for safety reasons. I never have had employees at Toyota, Hyundai or Honda dealerships try to talk me into unnecessary repairs.

1. Ever heard of 'silent recalls'? Japanese car makers do that a lot.
2. You will find that Japanese cars have more parts to replace at major scheduled maintenance intervals.

The total cost of ownership of foreign cars over a period of 5 years is higher than domestic cars. Go to edmunds.com and do a comparison for yourself.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: GroundedSailor

Originally posted by: Zedtom
Fuel is the major factor, but public relations are important too.

I now own only foreign cars. I grew tired of going to GM dealerships and having service "advisors" tell me that certain expensive parts had to be replaced for safety reasons. I never have had employees at Toyota, Hyundai or Honda dealerships try to talk me into unnecessary repairs.

1. Ever heard of 'silent recalls'? Japanese car makers do that a lot.
2. You will find that Japanese cars have more parts to replace at major scheduled maintenance intervals.

The total cost of ownership of foreign cars over a period of 5 years is higher than domestic cars. Go to edmunds.com and do a comparison for yourself.

Economy Cars:
TCO 2006 Honda Civic = $35,500
TCO 2006 Toyota Corolla = $36,000
TCO 2006 Chevy Cobalt = $40,500
TCO 2006 Ford Focus = $36,700

Midsize:
TCO 2006 Honda Accord = $36,400
TCO 2006 Toyota Camry = $38,300
TCO 2006 Chevy Impala = $44,200
TCO 2006 Ford Fusion = $41,500
TCO 2006 Chrysler 300 = $45,500

Looks like your own source favours Japanese makers

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: GroundedSailor

Originally posted by: Zedtom
Fuel is the major factor, but public relations are important too.

I now own only foreign cars. I grew tired of going to GM dealerships and having service "advisors" tell me that certain expensive parts had to be replaced for safety reasons. I never have had employees at Toyota, Hyundai or Honda dealerships try to talk me into unnecessary repairs.

1. Ever heard of 'silent recalls'? Japanese car makers do that a lot.
2. You will find that Japanese cars have more parts to replace at major scheduled maintenance intervals.

The total cost of ownership of foreign cars over a period of 5 years is higher than domestic cars. Go to edmunds.com and do a comparison for yourself.

Oh stop with the BS

Over a 5 yr period a foriegn car will require nothing but some oil changes and gas while the American piece of crap has nearly every mechanical piece replaced.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: GroundedSailor

Originally posted by: Zedtom
Fuel is the major factor, but public relations are important too.

I now own only foreign cars. I grew tired of going to GM dealerships and having service "advisors" tell me that certain expensive parts had to be replaced for safety reasons. I never have had employees at Toyota, Hyundai or Honda dealerships try to talk me into unnecessary repairs.

1. Ever heard of 'silent recalls'? Japanese car makers do that a lot.
2. You will find that Japanese cars have more parts to replace at major scheduled maintenance intervals.

The total cost of ownership of foreign cars over a period of 5 years is higher than domestic cars. Go to edmunds.com and do a comparison for yourself.

Oh stop with the BS

Over a 5 yr period a foriegn car will require nothing but some oil changes and gas while the American piece of crap has nearly every mechanical piece replaced.

30% less oil changes too.

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: GroundedSailor

Originally posted by: Zedtom
Fuel is the major factor, but public relations are important too.

I now own only foreign cars. I grew tired of going to GM dealerships and having service "advisors" tell me that certain expensive parts had to be replaced for safety reasons. I never have had employees at Toyota, Hyundai or Honda dealerships try to talk me into unnecessary repairs.

1. Ever heard of 'silent recalls'? Japanese car makers do that a lot.
2. You will find that Japanese cars have more parts to replace at major scheduled maintenance intervals.

The total cost of ownership of foreign cars over a period of 5 years is higher than domestic cars. Go to edmunds.com and do a comparison for yourself.

Oh stop with the BS

Over a 5 yr period a foriegn car will require nothing but some oil changes and gas while the American piece of crap has nearly every mechanical piece replaced.

Toyota recently recalled nearly 1 million cars. They've also had major issues including oil turning to sludge in their engines. And, like most car companies, new cars tend to get plenty of gremlins. Toyota and Honda may be ranked highly, as well as Subaru, but you have plenty of mediocre companies out there. Nissan, a company that has only recently imrpoved its reliability, nearly tanked if it wasn't for Renault and Mitsubishi has plans to pull out of America if they can't come out of their slump.

Also, German marques regularly rank lower than American companies.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: GroundedSailor

Originally posted by: Zedtom
Fuel is the major factor, but public relations are important too.

I now own only foreign cars. I grew tired of going to GM dealerships and having service "advisors" tell me that certain expensive parts had to be replaced for safety reasons. I never have had employees at Toyota, Hyundai or Honda dealerships try to talk me into unnecessary repairs.

1. Ever heard of 'silent recalls'? Japanese car makers do that a lot.
2. You will find that Japanese cars have more parts to replace at major scheduled maintenance intervals.

The total cost of ownership of foreign cars over a period of 5 years is higher than domestic cars. Go to edmunds.com and do a comparison for yourself.

Oh stop with the BS

Over a 5 yr period a foriegn car will require nothing but some oil changes and gas while the American piece of crap has nearly every mechanical piece replaced.

Toyota recently recalled nearly 1 million cars.

They've also had major issues including oil turning to sludge in their engines.

Oil turning to sludge indicates they are cooling the engine a tad too much which means less wear and tear. They are probably just putting in a hotter thermostat.

So what's your point?

The foreign car will still require less money over the long haul than the American piece of crap.

 

[Stunt]

While GM and Ford cars do not get enough credit, I can admit that...this percieved difference between domestics and japanese cars will only make the domestics stronger. They were obviously on the wrong track...it wasn't until consumers protested through buying other brands that they got their sh!t together (mind you, 10 years late imo).

The problems with GM and Ford are 3 fold. The consumers/dealers, the company and the unions.

The dealers for years have been offering cars at huge discounts, lower than the costs of manufacture in the hopes to keep volumes high and money from financing and repairs. The dealerships took this too far and realized their money wasn't in selling cars but repairing them. Therefore you were getting repair notices for questionable items and the cost of ownership gave people a bad taste in their mouth for quality. Not that the cars were overly defective, the business model was defective.

The company instead of streamlining operations with 3rd party suppliers, they treated them like crap. All the automotive parts makers around here (and we have some of the largest plants in north america), would much rather deal with japanese manufacturers than the big 3. In an attempt to reduce costs GM let their suppliers beat the crap out of each other and almost put them out of business by slapping downtime fees and whatnot. There are times where 3rd party parts makers will helicopter parts to GM, just to save the downtime fees, and because these small shops can only get as cheap as GM wants with insane volumes they are consantly laying off or barely making enough product depending on contracts. Honda and Toyota on the other hand, hand pick their suppliers and will loan you process engineers to help you lower your costs. They realize a better run supplier streamlined with their operations will benifit them both in logistics and less disruption, but in costs as well. GM suffers from the bully syndrome...if they continue this mindset they will fall. This is not even mentioning all the other crap I mentioned earlier about bloated brands, not listening to the customer and other horrid top down decisions.

The union side is self explainitory, and will continue to be a parasite in the progression toward a "new" GM.

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Oil turning to sludge indicates they are cooling the engine a tad too much which means less wear and tear. They are probably just putting in a hotter thermostat.

So what's your point?

The foreign car will still require less money over the long haul than the American piece of crap.

Wow, that was one quick "Foregin good, domestic bad."

 

[piasabird]

I find it hard to cry for the offerings they have that people dont want to buy and cant afford. Let the free market decide.

 

[Zedtom]

When I shop for an automobile I consider mileage ratings before anything else. My most recent purchase was a Hyundai Sonata with a V6. The clincher for me was test driving an assortment of similar models- foreign and domestic. The foreign cars gave me an impression of solid assembly and deliberate design. The American models, (Chevrolet Malibu, especially), seemed spartan and empty of joy.

Freedom of choice allows me to buy any car I desire. If I choose foreign over domestic, it is no reflection of my political beliefs, patrotism or agenda. I shop mileage and price. There are many consumers just like me.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Zedtom
When I shop for an automobile I consider mileage ratings before anything else. My most recent purchase was a Hyundai Sonata with a V6. The clincher for me was test driving an assortment of similar models- foreign and domestic. The foreign cars gave me an impression of solid assembly and deliberate design. The American models, (Chevrolet Malibu, especially), seemed spartan and empty of joy.

Freedom of choice allows me to buy any car I desire. If I choose foreign over domestic, it is no reflection of my political beliefs, patrotism or agenda. I shop mileage and price. There are many consumers just like me.

I would rather buy a Sonata made in the USA (Alabama and my company supplies the brake and fuel lines as well as other fuel components) than a Ford (Fusion) made in Mexico.

Edit: That goes for any car made in US by US workers vs any car made elsewhere unless I decided to go luxury and then I would take a look at cars made abroad (but I'm not there yet! )

 

[Aimster]

I just bought an SUV that does 15/20

and it cost me $75 to fill her up.