Fuel fears puncture US car sales

[ericlp]

Text

Surging fuel prices have weighed on demand for sports utility vehicles (SUVs)and trucks, cutting into US sales for big name Detroit automakers.

Both General Motors (GM) and Ford have cut production as total May sales fell 16% and 6% respectively. Sales at Chrysler Group also fell 11%.

But Japanese carmaker sales continued to grow as consumers opted for smaller, more fuel efficient vehicles.

Toyota revealed sales surged 12.3% while sales at Honda grew 11.4%.

Hmmm, what will take to wake up the big 3 that America doesn't need V8's and V10's for daily driving? They must know that when gas prices go up .25 - .50 cents more per gallon next month that they will slide even more. Yet they continue to promote the V8 mustangs and V10 SUV's. I guess everyone is rich enough to get 17MPG at the pump?

I just got a new Toyota Corolla, 35MPG. And it's a nice solid car that has a strong 1.8L zippy engine... Best of all it's made right here in USA! Last ford I got transmission was made in France, and assembled in Mexico. Sad...

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: ericlp

Hmmm, what will take to wake up the big 3 that America doesn't need V8's and V10's for daily driving?

They must know that when gas prices go up .25 - .50 cents more per gallon next month that they will slide even more.

Yet they continue to promote the V8 mustangs and V10 SUV's.

I guess everyone is rich enough to get 17MPG at the pump?

Yes, the resident Republicans have said repeatedly that gas prices don't affect them because they are rich.

 

[compuwiz1]

Originally posted by: ericlp
Text

Surging fuel prices have weighed on demand for sports utility vehicles (SUVs)and trucks, cutting into US sales for big name Detroit automakers.

Both General Motors (GM) and Ford have cut production as total May sales fell 16% and 6% respectively. Sales at Chrysler Group also fell 11%.

But Japanese carmaker sales continued to grow as consumers opted for smaller, more fuel efficient vehicles.

Toyota revealed sales surged 12.3% while sales at Honda grew 11.4%.

Hmmm, what will take to wake up the big 3 that America doesn't need V8's and V10's for daily driving? They must know that when gas prices go up .25 - .50 cents more per gallon next month that they will slide even more. Yet they continue to promote the V8 mustangs and V10 SUV's. I guess everyone is rich enough to get 17MPG at the pump?

I just got a new Toyota Corolla, 35MPG. And it's a nice solid car that has a strong 1.8L zippy engine... Best of all it's made right here in USA! Last ford I got transmission was made in France, and assembled in Mexico. Sad...

Actually, V-8 Mustangs aren't super terrible on mileage. Mine gets close to 20mpg in town and as much as 26 on the road.

 

[catnap1972]

I swear I am so sick and tired of all the car commercials coming out of the woodwork with their "COME BUY OUR GAS SIPPING SUV--GETS 15 MPG!". That and the ones which tout their car's 30 highway MPG's as some "great accomplishment". BFD!

As for OP's question about when carmakers are going to wake up--not until it's too late. They're still way too fixated on huge profit margins on SUVs to actually do anything positive.

 

[Meuge]

Good. Maybe they'll stop making ****** cars.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: ericlp
Hmmm, what will take to wake up the big 3 that America doesn't need V8's and V10's for daily driving? They must know that when gas prices go up .25 - .50 cents more per gallon next month that they will slide even more. Yet they continue to promote the V8 mustangs and V10 SUV's. I guess everyone is rich enough to get 17MPG at the pump?

You'd think the threat of bankruptcy would do it, but no. Ford, GM and Chrysler could have seen the writing on the wall years ago and yet they continued to build gas-guzzling vehicles and built their business model around the sale of said vehicles. Short-sided idiots.

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: ericlp
Hmmm, what will take to wake up the big 3 that America doesn't need V8's and V10's for daily driving? They must know that when gas prices go up .25 - .50 cents more per gallon next month that they will slide even more. Yet they continue to promote the V8 mustangs and V10 SUV's. I guess everyone is rich enough to get 17MPG at the pump?

You'd think the threat of bankruptcy would do it, but no. Ford, GM and Chrysler could have seen the writing on the wall years ago and yet they continued to build gas-guzzling vehicles and built their business model around the sale of said vehicles. Short-sided idiots.

Gas-guzzlers have a considerably higher profit margin than small cars.

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: ericlp
Hmmm, what will take to wake up the big 3 that America doesn't need V8's and V10's for daily driving? They must know that when gas prices go up .25 - .50 cents more per gallon next month that they will slide even more. Yet they continue to promote the V8 mustangs and V10 SUV's. I guess everyone is rich enough to get 17MPG at the pump?

You'd think the threat of bankruptcy would do it, but no. Ford, GM and Chrysler could have seen the writing on the wall years ago and yet they continued to build gas-guzzling vehicles and built their business model around the sale of said vehicles. Short-sided idiots.

Gas-guzzlers have a considerably higher profit margin than small cars.

Even a 50% profit margin won't save you, if you're only selling 20 cars.

 

[Stunt]

SUV's are what is keeping GM afloat...why would they bite the hand that feeds them?
Where GM and Ford need to focus is on their economy and high volume vehicles. Honda and Toyota have been very lean making sure they offer only a few products that don't overlap and continuously improve ideas that already work well. Civic today is mechanically very similar to models in the 80's and 90's, same with the Corolla. GM and Ford are effectively competing with cars with 20 years of perfection and intense attention.

I bet GM has 20 times the number of models as Toyota and are still getting beat...If I were GM, I'd kill saturn, GMC, chevy cars, buick, hummer, subaru and saab. Chevy Trucks, Pontiac and Caddy only. This way they can focus on what people really want and don't have all these odd brands nobody buys.

 

[Zedtom]

Fuel is the major factor, but public relations are important too.

I now own only foreign cars. I grew tired of going to GM dealerships and having service "advisors" tell me that certain expensive parts had to be replaced for safety reasons. I never have had employees at Toyota, Hyundai or Honda dealerships try to talk me into unnecessary repairs.

 

[43st]

Originally posted by: compuwiz1
Actually, V-8 Mustangs aren't super terrible on mileage. Mine gets close to 20mpg in town and as much as 26 on the road.

EDIT: opps, heh.

The new Corvette actually gets over 30 on the highway... very amazing for a US car of that nature.

I still think 50 MPG or greater should be the standard. My Mazda3 with the 2.3L @ 175-ish hp, get's 30 in the city and 33 on the highway. Too bad Mazda doesn't sell a diesel here, only mechanically inferior VW does.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Stunt
SUV's are what is keeping GM afloat...why would they bite the hand that feeds them?

And even those who thought they were rich enough to ignore the handwriting on the wall are now finding that hand is far too deep in their pockets.

Too bad American car makers were too blind to see the engineering and economic sensibilities that Japanese manufacturers laid in front of their faces for decades. They pwned themselves long before the word was spelled with a "p"

 

[Moonbeam]

Yup, I have a 2001 civic that is every bit the car my 2006 ford focus is plus I can take the seat belt on and off and apply the hand break without being a contortionist with the arm rest down.

Edit: Fortunately, the Focus is a rental, but I could, if necessary, live with it. I am sure it's cheaper to buy and an 11,000 dollar Mercury Tracer now with 100,000 thousand miles has had 0 repairs and still going strong. It was a real buy even compared to the Honda, in my opinion. All of 86 HP.

 

[desy]

If I were GM, I'd kill saturn, GMC, chevy cars, buick, hummer, subaru and saab

Chev cars do wonderfully, they sell a ton of Malibu's Cobalt's and Impala's
They already sold off Subaru?
Saab is the base for the Mailbu's the car rated better than Camry or Accord in 2005 by JD Powers.
They sell Hummer H3's as fast as they make them.
Saturn while they have had some good cars and the Vue is finally good have never been profitable, ever. . .

Its too bad they 'Ford and GM' are playing catchup in the small car market, Dodge is doing nicely.
I will buy an SUV when you can get them in deisel

 

[Moonbeam]

We need a very small front real passanger electric with a 100 mi range for commuting

 

[theeedude]

Ford makes Focus and GM makes Cobalt that gets similar mileage to Corolla. So it's not like Americans aren't offering a small car. They sell big SUV's in addition to small cars not instead of small cars.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Originally posted by: Stunt
SUV's are what is keeping GM afloat...why would they bite the hand that feeds them?
Where GM and Ford need to focus is on their economy and high volume vehicles. Honda and Toyota have been very lean making sure they offer only a few products that don't overlap and continuously improve ideas that already work well. Civic today is mechanically very similar to models in the 80's and 90's, same with the Corolla. GM and Ford are effectively competing with cars with 20 years of perfection and intense attention.

I bet GM has 20 times the number of models as Toyota and are still getting beat...If I were GM, I'd kill saturn, GMC, chevy cars, buick, hummer, subaru and saab. Chevy Trucks, Pontiac and Caddy only. This way they can focus on what people really want and don't have all these odd brands nobody buys.

The bolded section is an astute observation . . . ie fill most of a customers needs NOT all of their wants.

But I doubt there's much that is mechanically similar between a 1986 Civic and the 2006 variety. You are on the right track about the difference in philosophy. Japan Inc started making good small cars decades ago . . . and have progressively made them better . . . while adding larger (and different types) of vehicles to the mix. In the meantime, our Bizarro World car companies basically made one bad car after another (with rare exceptions like the first Taurus and 2ndGen+ Focus).

The intriguing aspects about GM selling its Subaru:
1) the WRX was the BEST small car in the family . . . notwithstanding GM's attempt to make a Saab out of one
2) Foresters and Outbacks have almost "cultish" followings in the NE and NW.
3) Killing Saturn (which has a bunch of duplicate GM products) would have made A LOT more sense than dumping Subaru's stable of relatively novel products

GMC probably makes mad margins . . . I imagine the same is true for Hummer but I bet both those brands are going to take it on the chin over the next few years. On the otherhand, it's possible GMC could gain sales by stealing marketshare from the upper end at Ford and Dodge, while the H2/H3 don't really have competitors.

Buick (and/or Pontiac) should have been killed off two years ago but now Buick has a couple of interesting cars and Pontiac has the Solstice . . . which is eating the Miata's lunch . . . after the supercharged version arrives (and Pontiac refines handling/interior) . . . Pontiac might eat into other roadsters like the S2000, Z4, etc.

GM and Ford are just poorly managed companies . . . have been for years.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: senseamp
Ford makes Focus and GM makes Cobalt that gets similar mileage to Corolla. So it's not like Americans aren't offering a small car.

Yeah, but where were they ten, twenty or thirty years ago when the Japanese started eating them for lunch?

Hell! It took GM decades to recognize the value of double reading keys that can be inserted either side up. That would have cost them nothing to implement in a smooth transition, and it doesn't even cost more because it only requires one set of tumblers. American car makers had hard copy examples of better engineering in front of their eyes, and they ignored them for decades. :roll:

I'm not happy about it. It's just what happned.

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: senseamp
Ford makes Focus and GM makes Cobalt that gets similar mileage to Corolla. So it's not like Americans aren't offering a small car.

Yeah, but where were they ten, twenty or thirty years ago when the Japanese started eating them for lunch?

Hell! It took GM decades to recognize the value of double reading keys that can be inserted either side up. That would have cost them nothing to implement in a smooth transition, and it doesn't even cost more because it only requires one set of tumblers. American car makers had hard copy examples of better engineering in front of their eyes, and they ignored them for decades. :roll:

I'm not happy about it. It's just what happned.

Yeah, but people are hating American now for stuff that happened long time ago.
I could see if Ford or GM wasn't offering a small car now, and only manufactured SUV's. But that's not the case. I don't think it's right to criticize Ford and GM for selling SUV's to people who want to buy them. Toyota would gladly sell a Sequoia to the same customers. Ultimately it's the customer's choice. If customer wants to buy a Focus instead of an Explorer, Ford will build a Focus.

 

[desy]

Ford makes Focus and GM makes Cobalt that gets similar mileage to Corolla. So it's not like Americans aren't offering a small car

Cobalt was a base hit not a home run 10X better than a Cavalier but still not quite enough. The Aveo is the cheapest car on the market for a reason.

Focus is a good car but its getting tired, instead of giving NA the Focus based one the Mazda 3 like in Europe they keep warming over the original design for us.
Ford also doesn't have something smaller like a Fit or Yaris either.

 

[theeedude]

You can get a Focus for what a Yaris or Fit sells for, so that model covers that market. As far as Mazda3, noone is stopping you from getting one now, but there is a question of whether people would be willing to pay Euro Focus prices (close to 20K) for a Focus in the US.

 

[desy]

Right a Euro focus competes with a Civic or Rolla and they make a car to compete with the Fit and Yaris that gets the same gas mileage and same dimensions.

Just cause the cost is the same, you don't compare categories they don't have anything there and others are now bringing more sub-compacts into the market for next yr.
Where is ford's?

Hey I like NA cars, but basically because of price. When my buddy came to me last yr and asked me to help in find a car at X $ I found him a 01 Focus and for the money the best car at that price point. He's put 50K miles on it in one yr 'service tech'

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: desy
Right a Euro focus competes with a Civic or Rolla and they make a car to compete with the Fit and Yaris that gets the same gas mileage and same dimensions.

Just cause the cost is the same, you don't compare categories they don't have anything there and others are now bringing more sub-compacts into the market for next yr.
Where is ford's?

Hey I like NA cars, but basically because of price. When my buddy came to me last yr and asked me to help in find a car at X $ I found him a 01 Focus and for the money the best car at that price point. He's put 50K miles on it in one yr 'service tech'

Why would you want a smaller car with beam suspension when you can get a bigger car with fully independent suspension for the same money? I don't think there is a huge demand for a Ford subcompact out there. Remember the Aspire?

 

[desy]

The Asprie came at a time of historical low point for fuel, same as Geo's and Sprint's
And they were crappy and ugly.

$3 is changing that demand for small cars hence the point of the article.

In fact when I look at the Fit its dimensionally the same size as my 95 Civic was and the new Civic is bigger than my 94 Corsica is which was the reason we got rid of the Civic.

 

[nergee]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc

Originally posted by: Stunt
SUV's are what is keeping GM afloat...why would they bite the hand that feeds them?
Where GM and Ford need to focus is on their economy and high volume vehicles. Honda and Toyota have been very lean making sure they offer only a few products that don't overlap and continuously improve ideas that already work well. Civic today is mechanically very similar to models in the 80's and 90's, same with the Corolla. GM and Ford are effectively competing with cars with 20 years of perfection and intense attention.

I bet GM has 20 times the number of models as Toyota and are still getting beat...If I were GM, I'd kill saturn, GMC, chevy cars, buick, hummer, subaru and saab. Chevy Trucks, Pontiac and Caddy only. This way they can focus on what people really want and don't have all these odd brands nobody buys.

The bolded section is an astute observation . . . ie fill most of a customers needs NOT all of their wants.........

Toyota & Honda clearly give customers things they want......quality, speed to market, pricing, and service just to name a few.....