[Fudzilla] TSMC outstrips Intel

Toggle sidebar Toggle sidebar
R

rainy

Senior member
Jul 17, 2013
522
453
136
http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/32595-tsmc-outstrips-intel

Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing is now the world's largest semiconductor chip supplier thanks to a global mobile boom. TSMC sold US$11.98 billion worth of semiconductor chips in the second quarter of this year, surpassing Intel US$11.79 billion. The reports are based on data from market research outfit IC Insights.

The local press predicts things will get better for TSMC as it is upgrading its four 8-inch wafer fabrication plants in preparation for the onslaught of new wearable device market. According to IC Insights data, global semiconductor chip sales will reach US$271 billion this year, with wafer foundries accounting for about 16.4 percent of the total. IC Insights thinks the fast growth in wafer foundries' final market value is because mobile devices have eclipsed PC sales.

As a result, demand for smartphone chips and ARM processors has increased substantially and thus helped spur growth in revenues of wafer foundries. IC Insights has predicted that overall revenues of global semiconductor suppliers will increase less than 6 percent this year, but sales of pure-play foundries will post an annual gain of 14 percent.
Click to expand...
Is it really that suprising?
TSMC have many customers including major ones and Intel have been almost exclusively producing for themselves.
 
S

seitur

Senior member
Jul 12, 2013
383
1
81
Kinda explains why Intel is so desperately trying to get into mobile.

Anyway - is Intel even offering his fabs to manufacture non-Intel chips?
 
K

Khato

Golden Member
Jul 15, 2001
1,288
367
136
seitur said:
Anyway - is Intel even offering his fabs to manufacture non-Intel chips?
Click to expand...

Yes, but I believe the public list of customers only includes Achronix, Tabula, and Altera? Intel has stated that there are a number of other customers who don't wish to let their current foundry know about their intentions to switch until necessary. (Which is somewhat odd considering that they'd have to continue developing devices there as well in order to play out the ruse.)
 
videogames101

videogames101

Diamond Member
Aug 24, 2005
6,783
27
91
Rakehellion said:
Also, high-performance desktops are pretty much a thing of the past.
Click to expand...

idk, intel still sells a whole lot of high end desktop chips - and plenty of people still use them

it might be more accurate to say market growth of high-performance has stagnated

Also keep in mind Intel's revenue is 4 times higher than TSMC's and Intel's net revenue is double that of TSMC's.
 
Imouto

Imouto

Golden Member
Jul 6, 2011
1,241
2
81
videogames101 said:
idk, intel still sells a whole lot of high end desktop chips - and plenty of people still use them

it might be more accurate to say market growth of high-performance has stagnated

Also keep in mind Intel's revenue is 4 times higher than TSMC's and Intel's net revenue is double that of TSMC's.
Click to expand...

Well, decreasing at a steady 5-10% each quarter is pretty far from stagnated market unless it has wheels and going downhill.

And hell no, did you read the article at all?

Intel Q2 = $12.8 B (you can Google the report)
TSMC Q2 = $11.98

So yeah, you can safely say that TSMC outstripped Intel.
 
videogames101

videogames101

Diamond Member
Aug 24, 2005
6,783
27
91
Imouto said:
Well, decreasing at a steady 5-10% each quarter is pretty far from stagnated market unless it has wheels and going downhill.

And hell no, did you read the article at all?

Intel Q2 = $12.8 B (you can Google the report)
TSMC Q2 = $11.98

So yeah, you can safely say that TSMC outstripped Intel.
Click to expand...

My bad, the figure I saw for revenue was from 2010.

Total revenue in 2010 for TSMC was $13.9 billion.

I'm impressed TSMC has increased revenue by 4x in just 3 years.
 
E

Exophase

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2012
4,439
9
81
What's this onslaught of wearable devices that's supposed to happen? Why are wearable devices going to be popular?
 
K

kevinsbane

Senior member
Jun 16, 2010
694
0
71
TSMC said:
Hsinchu, Taiwan, R.O.C. – Sept. 10, 2013 - TSMC (TWSE: 2330, NYSE: TSM) today announced its net revenues for August 2013: On a consolidated basis, revenues for August 2013 were approximately NT$55.09 billion, an increase of 5.7 percent from July 2013 and an increase of 11.2 percent over August 2012. Revenues for January through August 2013 totaled NT$395.84 billion, an increase of 19.3 percent compared to the same period in 2012.
Click to expand...

TSMC press release.

Something's not right with FUD's numbers...

395.74b NT$ revenue for Jan-Aug. At current exchange rates, that's 13.39b US$.

FUD : 11.98b US$ in the second quarter
TSMC: 13.39b US$ in the first 8 months of the year

So... TSMC only made 1.37b US$ in the other five months of the year? I find that hard to believe. No link in the FUD article, so no way to check his numbers D:

Edit: further research.

TSMC 2nd Quarter results
155.89b NT$, = 5.27b US$.
 
Last edited:
ShintaiDK

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
146
106
http://www.euroinvestor.dk/nyheder/...gins-record-revenue-in-third-quarter/12414816

The world's biggest contract chip maker by revenue, which counts Qualcomm Inc., Advanced Micro Devices Inc. and Texas Instruments Inc. among its clients, said it expects third-quarter revenue to come in between 161 billion New Taiwan dollars (US$5.41 billion) and NT$164 billion, higher than NT$155.89 billion in the second quarter.


It didn't give a net profit forecast, but said gross profit margin will likely come in at 47% to 49%, compared to 49% in the second quarter.
Click to expand...


FUD seems to have some...homemade numbers...

Why do people visit his site again?
 
K

Khato

Golden Member
Jul 15, 2001
1,288
367
136
Okay, so Fudzilla is indeed not capable of reading data. TSMC did not sell "US$11.98 billion worth of semiconductor chips in the second quarter of this year" - they sold US$5.1 billion worth of semiconductor chips that were then resold for US$11.98 billion. Though even that number is just an estimate based on a 57% average gross margin for TSMC's customers which is a tad bit high.
 
L

liahos1

Senior member
Aug 28, 2013
573
45
91
i blame myself for not verifying the numbers

TSM in 2012 did 16.9bln USD of revenue, projected to do 20.2bln this year

INTC did 53bln in 2012 projected to do 52bln in 2013

That is still not the right comp though. Completely apples to oranges. Nearly all of INTC's revenues are at leading edge. Only 29% of TSM's revenues are at 28nm.

So 5.9bln of leading edge revenue at TSM vs nearly all of it at intel.

Even then the comp is not right since Intel is both the FAB and the Chip seller. Taking INTC's gross margins ~60% x 52bln = 31.2bln vs tsms 5.9bln to get better apples to apples.
 
K

Khato

Golden Member
Jul 15, 2001
1,288
367
136
liahos1 said:
Even then the comp is not right since Intel is both the FAB and the Chip seller. Taking INTC's gross margins ~60% x 52bln = 31.2bln vs tsms 5.9bln to get better apples to apples.
Click to expand...

Except you're then reporting Intel revenue times gross margins against TSMC 28nm revenue. TSMC doesn't exceed 50% gross margins, so that comparison would be more like $31.2B vs $2.95B. Not that it's a very useful comparison as it's not really representative of much.
 
Imouto

Imouto

Golden Member
Jul 6, 2011
1,241
2
81
Well, my bad for giving any credibility to that site.

And sorry to videogames101 too, that was out of place.

Anyway cutting the distance to barely a half is a great feat.
 
L

liahos1

Senior member
Aug 28, 2013
573
45
91
Khato said:
Except you're then reporting Intel revenue times gross margins against TSMC 28nm revenue. TSMC doesn't exceed 50% gross margins, so that comparison would be more like $31.2B vs $2.95B. Not that it's a very useful comparison as it's not really representative of much.
Click to expand...

it makes sense because INTEL's COGS are what TSM's revenues would be. Intel gets the margin on both the design and the manufacturing. whereas in fabless models that margin is split between the fabs and the iems
 
K

krumme

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2009
5,956
1,596
136
Never ever read that stupid site. When you do it its because you are bored.

Clearly Intel profit have stagnated and is starting to decline and Tsmc is going quickly the other way. But the story presents it the wrong way.

I think a good explanation for tsmc success is their lower wages and cost. But the main reason is the consumers is simply changing the market moving from desktops and notebooks to tablets phones and even smaler devices. The headline makes it a war between Intel and tsmc but i think its s stretch to call changing consumer behavior that.

I have not seen Intel perform better in 25 years but they are just in some of the stagnating markets.
 
Last edited:
I

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,110
64
91
This is what you get when your confirmation bias gets the best of you.

People who badly want Intel to be beaten, for any reason and in any way, will hype any story that seems to show Intel in a bad light (even if the basis of that bad light is a completely flawed analysis, as was the case with this thread's OP).

And then the anti-Intel crew can get their hate on and start baiting and flaming.

Tis a sad day, TBH, to see how little it takes to bring out the rather negative and unflattering side of some of our members. Confirmation bias, got to keep that in check people.
 
Arkaign

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,379
126
Idontcare said:
This is what you get when your confirmation bias gets the best of you.

People who badly want Intel to be beaten, for any reason and in any way, will hype any story that seems to show Intel in a bad light (even if the basis of that bad light is a completely flawed analysis, as was the case with this thread's OP).

And then the anti-Intel crew can get their hate on and start baiting and flaming.

Tis a sad day, TBH, to see how little it takes to bring out the rather negative and unflattering side of some of our members. Confirmation bias, got to keep that in check people.
Click to expand...

This x1 billion.

I don't have any particular love for Intel. I don't have any emotional feelings about any corporation.

However, denying the fundamental supremacy of Intel as the titans in semiconductor is just silliness. They're going after mobile, and I would really not bet against them in the long run. Once they ramp up and put their full effort behind something, impressive results usually follow. Even mis-steps like Netburst and starting late on mobile haven't hurt them very much.

Their competitors would blush at the chance for half the profits Intel has. And R&D division, engineering talent, and fabrication technology? Forget about it.
 
Arachnotronic

Arachnotronic

Lifer
Mar 10, 2006
11,715
2,012
126
Idontcare said:
This is what you get when your confirmation bias gets the best of you.

People who badly want Intel to be beaten, for any reason and in any way, will hype any story that seems to show Intel in a bad light (even if the basis of that bad light is a completely flawed analysis, as was the case with this thread's OP).

And then the anti-Intel crew can get their hate on and start baiting and flaming.

Tis a sad day, TBH, to see how little it takes to bring out the rather negative and unflattering side of some of our members. Confirmation bias, got to keep that in check people.
Click to expand...

Yup.
 
Imouto

Imouto

Golden Member
Jul 6, 2011
1,241
2
81
Idontcare said:
This is what you get when your confirmation bias gets the best of you.

People who badly want Intel to be beaten, for any reason and in any way, will hype any story that seems to show Intel in a bad light (even if the basis of that bad light is a completely flawed analysis, as was the case with this thread's OP).

And then the anti-Intel crew can get their hate on and start baiting and flaming.

Tis a sad day, TBH, to see how little it takes to bring out the rather negative and unflattering side of some of our members. Confirmation bias, got to keep that in check people.
Click to expand...

Public scorn from a forum admin, so classy.


Mod callouts are not permitted. This one got you an infraction, next one is vacation time.
Markfw900
Anandtech moderator
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

COMPANY
RESOURCES
FOLLOW
Top Bottom