Fudzilla: Bulldozer performance figures are in

[AnandThenMan]

Every day that passes without bulldozer on the market is one day that Intel is closer to the SB-E and IB launches. Very very very narrow window of opportunity here for bulldozer to launch and make much of a market impression before it gets boxed in from every direction except the clearance bin at your nearest micro center.

Agree with this on a certain level. But Bulldozer has to be the architecture that will allow AMD to remain competitive for several years, not just to make a splash and then hope Intel doesn't swoop in shorty after and steal their thunder. If Bulldozer is not in fact up to the task of being a competitive or even a leading performance architecture going forward, than I fear AMD has all but become obsolete in the performance processor market (especially in the server space). The ramifications of this would be crippling to AMD as a company IMO, not right away but 2-3 years down the road, I don't seem them as being viable.

IMO the future of the company rests on Bulldozer.

 

[bridito]

Charlie says that Opteron ships in two weeks.

http://semiaccurate.com/2011/08/04/bulldozer-to-ship-soon-really-soon/comment-page-1/

Of course, the source is of the highest possible caliber and has an admirable reputation for accurate reporting.

 

[Idontcare]

IMO the future of the company rests on Bulldozer.

Dirk felt that way too, apparently, and what is most disconcerting to me is that the very people who would know how that "the future depends on bulldozer" vision was going to play out are the same people who fired his ass around the time that they would have had some of the first in-house realizations of just what kind of future bulldozer was going to give the company.

I am not impressed with Intel's forced market segmentation by sockets and features.

I bought a 2600K system solely for the reason that my existing rig was literally dying, I tried to hold out as long as possible for AMD's bulldozer. But I will be buying a bulldozer rig.

Realistically I need about 4 computers in my house to support my business and regardless of bulldozers performance/price or performance/watt I am going to pay up and do what I can to support a competition in this industry. There is only one reason SB-E hasn't launched yet, and that is a lack of competition as motivation for Intel's accountants to budget the project such that their timeline was more aggressive.

AMD has 1/6 to 1/8 the resources, they have an excuse, Intel has zero technical excuses for their handling of the enthusiast market with this forced market segmentation of LGA1155 vs. LGA2011.

 

[Phynaz]

I bet Intel's analysts are eager to get their hands on some physical BD chips.

I guarantee you they have them already.

 

[Idontcare]

Charlie says that Opteron ships in two weeks.

http://semiaccurate.com/2011/08/04/bulldozer-to-ship-soon-really-soon/comment-page-1/

Of course, the source is of the highest possible caliber and has an admirable reputation for accurate reporting.

Say what you will about Charlie but he nailed bump-gate and he nailed Fermi.

But you are right, that is NV scoops, dancing-in-the-isle's Charlie D does not have a great track record when it comes to scoops and inside info on AMD.

 

[Idontcare]

I guarantee you they have them already.

Yep, without question, and SB-E as well as IB timelines have been adjusted accordingly.

 

[bridito]

Say what you will about Charlie but he nailed bump-gate and he nailed Fermi.

But you are right, that is NV scoops, dancing-in-the-isle's Charlie D does not have a great track record when it comes to scoops and inside info on AMD.

Yeah, Charlie gets it right sometime, but the worrisome part is that on Google News his site is listed as "Satire". That's not overly confidence inspiring!

Anyway, I haven't seen any confirmation anywhere else of this Opteron on Aug. 19 so if it's a scoop then Charlie really dug really deep for it!

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

IMO the future of the company in the Performance market rests on Bulldozer.

IMO the future of the company rests on Fusion.

I think those would be more accurate. Because of Fusion, AMD has nothing to worry about in the mainstream and entry-level market for at least six months. That's what makes the bulk of the market, and Fusion APUs are selling in millions each quarter, taking market share from Intel.

How they will be regarded by enthusiasts completely rests on Bulldozer, though.

 

[njdevilsfan87]

If this is true, I will definitely be getting an 8-core bulldozer. I'm already pretty much maxed on my 2500k running 3 virtual machines in the background, so the extra cores would be very beneficial for me! I figure the upgrade would cost around $200 after selling off the 2500k + motherboard and keeping everything else the same.

(Or maybe I'll keep the 2500k and ditch the e6600. I don't know!)

 

[Terzo]

There's really no one to blame for the delay, its systemic.

We all held out hope of AMD delivering some awe inspiring retribution on Intel in early 2011, but AMD is as AMD does. Same with Intel.

No one here should be surprised that Intel's accountants are milking the 1366/2011 situation for all its worth, Intel is as Intel does.

Likewise with AMD. They overreach, challenge themselves with the task of accomplishing so much with so little. When the stockpile of eye of newt and unicorn dust runs low though, reality starts to hit home.

My number one concern right now is that everything about this bulldozer situation is giving me chills of dejavu 2006/2007 all over again with phenom. And while I could not care less about the financial loss to AMD's shareholders or the loss to the ego of AMD fanboys the world over, I do have many good friends and colleagues in AMD that I do worry about because the job insecurity and general environment of work stress is simply not fun or rewarding.

In that regard I don't don't care

Every day that passes without bulldozer on the market is one day that Intel is closer to the SB-E and IB launches. Very very very narrow window of opportunity here for bulldozer to launch and make much of a market impression before it gets boxed in from every direction except the clearance bin at your nearest micro center.

Bulldozer needed to be released before Sandy, not right before Ivy. 2012 for AMD is gonna look a lot like 2008, and from an employee standpoint that means layoffs and lots of general unhappiness and that is about the only reason I care to follow bulldozer at this point. There is a human side to this situation, and for me its personal.

Sorry, I've been looking at this purely through an enthusiast viewpoint. It probably doesn't mean much but I certainly don't want anyone to lose there job (okay, maybe some people but that is in the realm of politics ).

As someone else has mentioned, doesn't AMD at least have potential with fusion? I thought it has been well received by the big notebook and desktop manufacturers (HP, Dell, Lenovo, whatever else there is).

Regarding Bulldozer, it seems your saying AMD can't "win" at this point (that would've required a launch last year). You also seem to be concerned about a repeat of the Phenom launch. At this point, what would AMD need to deliver with Bulldozer to stay in the game? I would be excited if they could launch with comparable performance to current Sandy Bridge offerings, even if Intel is waiting to release higher clocked versions and has SB-E and Ivy waiting in reserve.

I guarantee you they have them already.

Would that be through some sort of agreement with AMD or through espionage? Honest question here. I wouldn't expect AMD would show their hand to Intel before everyone else, but maybe there's some sort of agreement or law requiring them to. And maybe I'm naive, but I find the espionage concept a bit far-fetched.

 

[Vesku]

I'd like to have that expounded upon as well, are they getting samples through motherboard makers, a major OEM, or an AMD focus group member?

 

[bridito]

I'd like to have that expounded upon as well, are they getting samples through motherboard makers, a major OEM, or an AMD focus group member?

I can't speak for Intel and AMD but in my experience I have found that the vast majority of all corporations have very active highly paid moles in their major competitors.

 

[bridito]

I think those would be more accurate. Because of Fusion, AMD has nothing to worry about in the mainstream and entry-level market for at least six months. That's what makes the bulk of the market, and Fusion APUs are selling in millions each quarter, taking market share from Intel.

How they will be regarded by enthusiasts completely rests on Bulldozer, though.

Shareholders must be voting with their feet as AMD has gone from $7.75 to $6.18 in eight days. Ouch. (To be fair, Intel has gotten zinged to the same amount). The future of technology looks bright! Anyone for trading their PC for a stash of canned food and a really good shotgun?

 

[GaiaHunter]

Shareholders must be voting with their feet as AMD has gone from $7.75 to $6.18 in eight days. Ouch. (To be fair, Intel has gotten zinged to the same amount). The future of technology looks bright! Anyone for trading their PC for a stash of canned food and a really good shotgun?

Other than mining stocks, which ones didn't take a beat this week?

It isn't the future of technology - just the future (of our current monetary system).

Dow Posts Worst Week Since March 2009

 

[Phynaz]

And maybe I'm naive, but I find the espionage concept a bit far-fetched.

The CPU industry generates hundreds of billions of dollars in annual revenue. You can bet every chip company on the planet has espionage programs. Just look for "Market Intelligence" or "Market Research" spending - assuming the operations aren't entirely covert.

That said, you can bet Intel has plenty of BD CPUs that have fallen off the truck.

 

[bridito]

Other than mining stocks, which ones didn't take a beat this week?

It isn't the future of technology - just the future (of our current monetary system).

Dow Posts Worst Week Since March 2009

Yup, that's what I meant by getting a good cache of canned food, plenty of fresh water, and some heavy duty firepower to keep the crazies from getting it. Thanks to the brilliance, genius and profound wisdom of the political leaders of our planet, tonight we're gonna party like it's 1099! :'(

The CPU industry generates hundreds of billions of dollars in annual revenue. You can bet every chip company on the planet has espionage programs. Just look for "Market Intelligence" or "Market Research" spending - assuming the operations aren't entirely covert.

That said, you can bet Intel has plenty of BD CPUs that have fallen off the truck.

I am 100% in agreement. I'm completely convinced that Intel knows just about as much about every one of AMD's technologies as the exec board does. (It's likely that the opposite is also true).

20 years ago I knew this engineer that worked for a technology firm (not computer related) and at the time earned $30K a year. He lived in a house which was worth over half a mil (in those days) and drove a new Benz SL500 convertible (interestingly he drove a Toyota Tercel to work). If he wasn't selling his company's information to their competitor, I'm Taylor Swift.

 

[Idontcare]

As someone else has mentioned, doesn't AMD at least have potential with fusion? I thought it has been well received by the big notebook and desktop manufacturers (HP, Dell, Lenovo, whatever else there is).

Regarding Bulldozer, it seems your saying AMD can't "win" at this point (that would've required a launch last year). You also seem to be concerned about a repeat of the Phenom launch. At this point, what would AMD need to deliver with Bulldozer to stay in the game? I would be excited if they could launch with comparable performance to current Sandy Bridge offerings, even if Intel is waiting to release higher clocked versions and has SB-E and Ivy waiting in reserve.

If you followed the chronology of success and failures of Apple then you'll understand the source of my unwavering belief that AMD can "win" and the future may well be fusion but the company itself has to redefine what it is and how it does business in as much as Steve Jobs accomplished for Apple after he returned in 1996.

Sculley may have been more of a despicable human being than Ruiz, but they both seemed to hail from the same business school.

AMD needs a Steve Jobs to come in and reinvent the technology company, make it into something sexy that, just like Apple does now, survives in a world that has Intel and Microsoft monopolies.

AMD right now is trying to recapture their lost glory years by approaching the market as if it were 1999 all over again. Its not.

Fusion can be the future, but if AMD wants its future to be fusion then it needs to get smart about managing the software side of the industry just as Apple did with iOS and just as Google/Nvidia has done with Android.

And maybe I'm naive, but I find the espionage concept a bit far-fetched.

Definitely naive.

You find the notion of espionage to be far-fetched? What about the notion of price collusion? Or the notion that Intel would use anti-competitive rebate programs to damage AMD? Or the notion that Intel would resort to compiler "cripple AMD" tactics?

But just to be clear here, there is illegal espionage and then there is legal espionage. I doubt either company is engaged in illegal espionage. It may be unethical but that is not to be conflated with illegal.

 

[bridito]

Sculley vs. Ruiz... hmm... in any other universe they'd both be in jail for robbing their own grandmothers of their pension checks, not living high off the hog on golden parachutes. I easily equate both of them with Ken Lay, Dick Fuld, and Ang Mozilo. D:

 

[AnandThenMan]

AMD needs a Steve Jobs to come in and reinvent the technology company, make it into something sexy that, just like Apple does now, survives in a world that has Intel and Microsoft monopolies.

Indeed AMD does need a Jobs-like leader. Problem is, they are a very very rare breed. What is going to happen to Apple when Jobs steps down? People love to hate on Apple, but Steve Jobs is a visionary and a genius IMO, he knows exactly how to make a mass market, highly appealing product. And Apple's profit margins are downright ridiculous.

So when is AMD going to get a CEO anyway? I can't believe Meyer has not been replaced yet.

 

[bryanW1995]

Dirk felt that way too, apparently, and what is most disconcerting to me is that the very people who would know how that "the future depends on bulldozer" vision was going to play out are the same people who fired his ass around the time that they would have had some of the first in-house realizations of just what kind of future bulldozer was going to give the company.

I am not impressed with Intel's forced market segmentation by sockets and features.

I bought a 2600K system solely for the reason that my existing rig was literally dying, I tried to hold out as long as possible for AMD's bulldozer. But I will be buying a bulldozer rig.

Realistically I need about 4 computers in my house to support my business and regardless of bulldozers performance/price or performance/watt I am going to pay up and do what I can to support a competition in this industry. There is only one reason SB-E hasn't launched yet, and that is a lack of competition as motivation for Intel's accountants to budget the project such that their timeline was more aggressive.

AMD has 1/6 to 1/8 the resources, they have an excuse, Intel has zero technical excuses for their handling of the enthusiast market with this forced market segmentation of LGA1155 vs. LGA2011.

Haha, I'm still pissed that I went skt 1366 with the eventual plan to upgrade to a gulftown. Now I could build a whole new 1155 rig from the ground up for the cost of the cheapest gulftown.

 

[dma0991]

Realistically I need about 4 computers in my house to support my business and regardless of bulldozers performance/price or performance/watt I am going to pay up and do what I can to support a competition in this industry.

Exactly the same reason why I would be spending on a BD rig as opposed to a SB or an IB rig which is just an extra 6 months wait. The sad part is that I know for a fact that BD might just be on par with SB and possibly lose out to IB when it comes out.

 

[frozentundra123456]

If the future of AMD rests on Bulldozer, I think they are in serious trouble. I agree with those who see disconcerting parallels between the launch of Phenom and Bulldozer. If bulldozer were indeed the intel killer that AMD fans are looking for, I think it would have been out by now.

As far a fusion goes, I think it holds more promise than AMD trying to compete in the high end. This platform is particularly attractive for the mobile market. However, for the desktop, they need both better graphics and CPU performance. As is stands now, desktop fusion is just an underclocked, old architecture CPU and graphics that can be beaten out by a 50.00 discrete card, or even the 2 year old 9800 GT in my closet.

Maybe a Fusion chip based on the new Bulldozer architecture, and with even more improved graphics (maybe equivalent to something like a HD 6670) is in the cards for the future. This could be very attractive.

However, one must wonder whether Intel with all its resources could make a very good on-die graphics module as well, if the market swings that way. I know that so far their graphics have been inferior, but they do have a lot of resources to devote to whatever area they deem critical at a certain time.

 

[frostedflakes]

AMD really needs to improve their memory controller, that would give their Fusion chips a nice performance boost.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-a8-3850-llano,2975-11.html

Using the same memory speed and timings, Sandy Bridge memory bandwidth is like 40% higher than Llano's. Just doesn't make sense to me, AMD has been doing IMC longer than Intel, you'd think they could build a better one but I guess not.

 

[bridito]

Exactly the same reason why I would be spending on a BD rig as opposed to a SB or an IB rig which is just an extra 6 months wait. The sad part is that I know for a fact that BD might just be on par with SB and possibly lose out to IB when it comes out.

Respectfully, I note that some sources state that BD (Zambezi) is an October launch (or late Sept.) while SB-E is expected in November. IB will likely be at that point in the future you specified however.

 

[dma0991]

Respectfully, I note that some sources state that BD (Zambezi) is an October launch (or late Sept.) while SB-E is expected in November. IB will likely be at that point in the future you specified however.

From what I gathered, BD would be launched by September (19th?) and retail availability would be by October. I think the same applies to Llano where it is widely available about a month after launch.

SB-E is totally out of my budget even if a 4 core SB-E would cost slightly more than a Core i7 2600K. The X79 board and quad channel memory that is a prerequisite would add a lot to the final cost. IB is definitely my secondary choice to BD but I'm just hoping that BD wouldn't be that big of a letdown to compensate for the excruciatingly long wait.