Frustrated with OCing results with my Q6600 despite everything I try

[Pentacore]

I'm a bit new to the whole OC thing but I've been reading up on this board quite a bit and have followed a lot of directions from people with my same setup with no real success. Maybe someone can point out what I'm doing wrong or a possible weak link.

Mobo: ASUS P5N-E SLI Latest Bios
CPU: Q6600
RAM: 4GB (2x2GB sticks, 667Mhz) no-name brand (maybe a problem)
Videocard: eVGA 8800GT 512MB

From all the guides, overclocking with this mobo seems to be easy. The best I've been able to do and keep the system stable, is increase the FSB to 1200, giving me 2.77Ghz. Anything above that, and the system won't boot. I did get it to 3.06Ghz but it died after about 5 minutes. What is further frustrating, and this has happened to me twice now, is I've moved the FSB to 1300 or 1400 and the system won't even boot into the BIOS, it just sits on the ASUS splash screen. Even after letting the system sit for a day, coming back, same thing. I have to pull out the RAM, turn on the PC, turn it back off, put a stick back in, turn on just to get back into the BIOS to reset things back to stable speeds. Very frustrating.

I figured maybe the stock Intel heatsink was my problem. So just last night I got the Freezer 7 Pro, recommended to me by someone on this board. I put the thing on, and my temps are the same as the stock heatsink. My CPU idles around 37 degrees. I thought maybe I didn't get a good contact so I took off the heatsink and applied Arctic Silver 5 and made sure it was a tight fit. Same temps. This leads me to my next question, what is the best app for temps? I'm using the Asus probe however I'm using Vista x64. Maybe the temp readings are wrong? Surely this Feezer 7 would at least give me some benefit? I feel it was a waste of money at this point.

Sorry for the long message but I guess I'm frustrated and not sure what to do. Any ideas or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

 

[konceptz]

Did you buy thermal paste? I have and I think many may recommend Artic Silver 5. Only costs about $8-10 and you can use it over and over and over.


Also, no matter how good your cpu fan is, it won't help if your case is too hot.

During normal operation is any side of the case hot or even warm? This would mean you need to rethink and/or buy more case fans.

I would say the biggest cause of instability at mild overclocks, or first time attempts, is ram. It's somewhat strange your running 677 ram with a 1066 processor. I'm not suggesting you spend $200 on 4Gigs of 1066 ram, but you may benefit in the long run from some good ram around the 800 Mhz range (~$100 for 4 gigs).

Read the overclock guide and make sure your ram is set to 677 or as close as you can get it while you overclock. So if you're going for 3.0, use a bus speed of 333 and set your ram at 1:2.

Finally, which type Q6600 is yours? CPUZ will tell you the stepping. If it's G0 it should overclock well, and if it's B3 you may have more heat issues. Remember that every processor is different.

 

[Rike]

What ram divider are you using?

 

[Ricochet]

Maybe the RAM is suspect. Borrow some different DDR2 from a friend to test that out. At this stage I wouldn't spend anymore money and just accept the stock speed.

 

[Idontcare]

Sorry to hear of your frustrations, I've shared your pain before and I understand how tiring it can rapidly become.

konceptz hits on some good points. There are lots of folks on the forum who can help you but they will need more info from you about your hardware and operating parameters.

CPU - is it G0 or B3? What is the VID? Use CoreTemp 0.96 software to get this info.

What is your Vcore when you are overclocking? Are you leaving it at "stock" or are you overvolting as well? Use CPU-Z 1.43 to get this info.

Also what is your RAM, how many slots are populated, what voltage and timings are you using for the RAM?

And what is your CPU temps at stock (idle and load) and at overclock (idle and load)? Use the same Coretemp program mentioned above to get this info.

And lastly how hot is your case? Or more specifically how hot is your memory and northbridge? Use Speedfan 4.33 to try and get this information from your motherboard.

If you can't then I recommend removing your case side and ghetto in a few case fans blowing onto your motherboard at least for the duration of your overclocking debug process. It will make things easier to diagnose if you continue to have the same problems.

 

[sutahz]

I'm w/ konceptz that I suspect your RAM could be the problem (maybe.. it could be your PSU..?). To see if its your RAM and what could possibly be done about it we need information. Set everything to default, go into windows and see what your RAM timings are (as set by the mobo) in CPU-Z, oh and what speed they are running at (533MHz or 667MHz... or 800MHz). Also we'd like to know the voltage your ram (and cpu) is running at. That can be gotten from Asus probe (cpu&ram), BIOS (cpu and ram, as long as it doesnt say "default/auto"), and CPU-Z (Vcore/Vcpu). Saying FSB 1200,1300,1400 is a little wrong. Thats the FSB the cpu see's (so we can all easily divide by 4, and thats the number your seeing in CPU-Z no? or is that how your mobo reports it?). Giving your FSB as 300,325,350 is more what we are use to.
As overclocking is your goal, in the end that Arctic Freezer 7 Pro wont/shouldnt be a waste.
He did apply thermal paste:

thought maybe I didn't get a good contact so I took off the heatsink and applied Arctic Silver 5 and made sure it was a tight fit.

It's somewhat strange your running 677 ram with a 1066 processor. I'm not suggesting you spend $200 on 4Gigs of 1066 ram, but you may benefit in the long run from some good ram around the 800 Mhz range (~$100 for 4 gigs).

Yeah.. ummm... 1066/4=266FSB. 266FSBx2=533DDR. So running stock, FSB : DDR ratio of 1:1, w/ his 'cheap-o' ram running stock that 333x9=3GHz. I'm thinking he can loosen timings and/or bump up voltage (though I would loosen up timings first) to get up to 800DDR which is 400x9=3.6GHz.
G0 or B3 doesnt really matter. People blow it way out of proportion, just like the Phenom errata.

So if you're going for 3.0, use a bus speed of 333 and set your ram at 1:2.

True, 333x9 is 3GHz, however w/ a ratio of 1:2 that sets his ram at 1066MHz ((333x2)x2).

"Remember that every processor is different."
True, but stable at 3Ghz should be no problem.

 

[konceptz]

Oh my sutahz, you're right. Must have written that before morning coffee. Thanks for the corrects, spreading miss information is not win.

 

[Pentacore]

Wow guys thanks for all the info what an amazing board you have here! When I get home from work, I will report back all the info requested. Thanks big in advance!

 

[Pentacore]

Ok guys here is all the info you requested:

On the CPU tab of CPU-Z we have:

Q6600 CPU is B3 stepping
Core Voltage is 1.296V
Core Speed: 2700Mhz
Multipler is 9
Bus Speed: 300Mhz
Rated FSB: 1200Mhz (this is what I changed in the bios from 1066 to 1200)

On the SPD tab of CPU-Z we have:

Module Size: 2048 MBytes
Manufacturer: Hyundai Electronics
Max Bandwidth: PC2-5300 (333Mhz)

On the Memory tab of CPU-Z we have:

DRAM Freq: 333Mhz
FSB DRAM: 9:10
CAS# Latency (CL) 5.0 Clocks
RAS# to CAS# Delay (RCD) 5 Clocks
RAS# Prechange (tRP) 5 Clocks
Cycle Time (tRAS) 31 Clocks
Bank Cycle Time (tRC) 20 Clocks
Command Rate (CR) 2T

I refitted the Freezer Pro 7 with Arctic Silver 5 for good measure. AsusProbe has the CPU idling at 35C, motherboard case is at 38C.

The PSU is a brand new 600w Rosewill I just bought running in a Sagitta 2 case. The case has 2 120mm fans, one on the back, one on the side. You can put a 3rd 120 on the front of the case maybe that would help? CoreTemp will not run for me. I'm using Vista x64 and when I launch the .exe file, it errors over and over and I have to kill the process.

One question I do have is I thought my RAM was 667Mhz, not 333Mhz like it says on the SPD page of CPU-Z. Probably just a misunderstanding by me.

The way I'm overclocking it the 300Mhz that I've achieved that is stable at this point, reaching 2.7Ghz, is to change the unlink the RAM and FSB, and change the FSB from 1066 to 1200.

Anyways, sorry for all the info but I guess its better to have too much than too little. Let me know what you all think. Thanks again for all your help!

 

[Andvari]

OP, you idle at 35 with a B3? I'm not OC'ed at all either, and I idle at 38, 35, 30, 30. I've got:

G0 Q6600
Freezer 7 Pro w/ AS5 paste
giga p35-ds3r
antec p182 with the 3 stock fans.

Case, being metal, is quite cool to the touch on all sides. Putting my hand near the vents, the air is all fairly cool as well. Under full Prime95 load for half an hour, cores were up to 57, 56, 50, 50.


I wanted to overclock, but I too think these temps aren't looking too good for some reason. I'm going to try reseating the Freezer 7. I'd try lapping, but that seems a bit extreme considering I only want to OC to 3ghz. That was "supposedly" the no-brainer OC. *shrug*


The fact that your B3 is lower than my G0, and we have the same cooling options, is troubling. =(

 

[Andvari]

Oh, and by the way, to get Coretemp to run in Vista 64, restart your computer and hold F8 to get to the Windows boot options. Select the option that says "Disable Driver Signature Enforcement." Then you can run Coretemp. =) I too am in Vista 64.

 

[krnmastersgt]

The fact that the air is cool coming out of your case either means the components you're using run very cool or the air it's intaking is cold enough that it can cool everything and still stay at a low temperature which would be a good thing, or the bad thing which is the airflow circulation in your case is hampered by wires or fans blowing in awkward directions.
It's more likely not a problem but you might want to look into the temps your mobo and gpu run at, unless you meant the air was cool when the entire system was idle, in any case I suggest you run a stress test and check the temps of all your components o.o

 

[sutahz]

F8 to let unsigned drivers run, good to know.
See, your B3 isn't so bad.
Ok, Vcore 1.3V... that could/should get you to 3GHz (my G0, Vid 1.3V, 1.35V gets me 3.2GHz.. crappy but it is what it is).
Bus Speed 300MHz x4=1200MHz (what the cpu see's, why you see it on CPU-Z's first tab)
In your BIOS set your FSB DRAM ratio to 1:1, not 9:10 (as seen by CPUz, BIOS may present it differently). Does your BIOS show 1:1 1:1.2 types of ratios or 333/400 333/667 types of ratio's?
Unfortunatly your timings are already pretty loose, so.. we'll just see how far we can take it, then bump voltage as necessary (whats Vdimm/Vddr???)
You can put another 120mm fan on the front, but I wouldnt worry about it unless you are ordering part(s) and can add on a fan then (shipping just a fan, is a rip off at 98% of sites).
Your RAM is rated for 667MHz, RAM is DoubleDataRate (DDR). Your FSB is 300 currently, 300x2=600, so your currently 67MHz below 'spec'.
At 3.06GHz your only a TAD over your RAM's spec of 667DDR, so I'm guessing you need to bump up voltage. we really need to know what your Vdimm is. Does your RAM have heatspreaders (not that its vital)?

Read up on how to overclock RAM... how to use memtest86+ and Prime95/Orthos to test your ram's stablility (ie set your CPU multi to 6 so as your cpu is not stressed). I only care that you "overclock" your RAM just so we know how far your ram can go (other bottlenecks are your NB and of course, your CPU).

 

[Andvari]

Just reseated the Freezer. Basically the same temps. I've had Prime95 running for about 10 minutes now. It's 72°F in my room, and this is what I'm looking at: http://www.auburn.edu/~goldema/prime.jpg Keep in mind Pentacore, you and me both should see a few degrees drop over the next 200 hours as the thermal paste "breaks in" (according to AS5 website).

I routed as many wires as I could behind the p182's mobo tray, so I don't think airflow in my case should be an issue. There is a nest of SATA wires directly below the video card, but that shouldn't effect anything other than the video card. If even that. SATA cables aren't exactly huge.

Not trying to derail your thread with my own problems Pentacore. I just figured we're in the same boat, and the same help can apply to both of us. =)

 

[tranceport]

I have a q6600 g0 9x356 with vcore at 1.208 according to cpuz.. 1.3 in bios. Coretemp VID 1.2625 Idle 42,38,33,33.

I have reseated my true 120 8 times now to get to this point.. I'd keep playing with the heat sink to get it near perfect.

 

[Dadofamunky]

Originally posted by: Andvari
Oh, and by the way, to get Coretemp to run in Vista 64, restart your computer and hold F8 to get to the Windows boot options. Select the option that says "Disable Driver Signature Enforcement." Then you can run Coretemp. =) I too am in Vista 64.

Good tip...

Originally posted by: tranceport
I have a q6600 g0 9x356 with vcore at 1.208 according to cpuz.. 1.3 in bios. Coretemp VID 1.2625 Idle 42,38,33,33.

I have reseated my true 120 8 times now to get to this point.. I'd keep playing with the heat sink to get it near perfect.

Of course, doing that is one of the most unpleasant things about a new build... trying to get your fingers to get that darn clamp in place, dealing with the yucky paste, etc... but Rome wasn't built in a day.

 

[Andvari]

You've reseated your HSF 8 times and you still have a 9° delta? That doesn't sound very promising, lol. I've got an 8ish° delta myself, and it didn't change after re-setting the HSF. I think I'm going to leave it alone. Although it bugs me a little on the inside that my temps aren't uniform, in the end I don't care as long as the hottest temp isn't too hot.

Speaking of which, I just OC'ed to 3ghz and my temps barely changed. Actually, my hottest core (Core 0) which usually sits at 38-39, is still at 39. My other cores rose 2-3 though. Not bad I guess. My Freezer sits at about 1k rpm now though. Previously it was at 800ish. Anyway, since I had a similar setup to graysky (hell, I've got a similar setup to everybody it seems lol), I didn't bother fiddling with things. I just set things the way he had them from the getgo and it worked. I might could tone down the vcore a bit for all I know. I haven't stress tested yet though, so this might not be set in stone yet.

Pentacore, to better clarify on my setup:
G0 Q6600
Gigabyte ds3r
G.Skill 2x2GB 5-5-5-15 1.8v
p182 with the 3 stock 120mm fans
eVGA 8800GTS 512 (G92)
Vista 64

I followed graysky's guide. Here's what I did. Took me about 5 minutes.

-He said loosen the memory timings to 5-5-5-15, but mine are default like that anyway, so I didn't touch them.
-He didn't really say what to set the memory voltage to, so I didn't touch that either. The DS3R didn't have these settings on "auto" though as Graysky mentioned in his guide. They were on "normal" which I assume meant they were at a set value, not a self-adjusting one. Because I couldn't actually SET any values even if I wanted. I could only "add" voltage. Like for memory voltage, I could pick norma, +0.1, +0.2, etc.
-He mentioned possibly needing to change the ICHR and NB voltages, but I didn't even see those in my BIOS, so obviously those were left alone.
-PCI clock speed wasn't in my BIOS. PCIe was though, so I set that to 100mhz as suggested.
-DRAM Frequency, I set that to 667 (double my FSB, as suggested by Graysky)
-FSB, set to 333
-vCore. As I mentioned, the DS3R didn't have "auto" or any set voltages, just "normal" and additive values. For the vCore, though, it did have set values. Mine was default at "normal", which according to CPU-Z was 1.232. I set it to 1.2625, though, as suggested by Graysky.



So here I am at 3ghz with only a few simple BIOS changes. Like I said I haven't stressed or anything yet so things could end up falling apart. But right now I'm at least in Vista, which is farther than you were getting Pentacore. The only differences of note in our setups are our mobos and RAM. I'm sure your mobo is fine, so as others have suggested your RAM might be the problem if I had to guess.


EDIT: LOL, oops, I immediately got an error in Prime95. Comp didn't crash, just got an error is all. Hmm, guess I need to go fiddle.

 

[tranceport]

Originally posted by: Andvari
You've reseated your HSF 8 times and you still have a 9° delta? That doesn't sound very promising, lol. I've got an 8ish° delta myself, and it didn't change after re-setting the HSF.

Was 12° delta. I'll keep trying things hoping to get around 3°.

 

[Andvari]

What have you been trying differently? I just did the same thing I did the first time, except I pushed down the pins in an X pattern, instead of a square. No luck on a successful OC yet. I bumped the vcore up a single notch, to 1.26875 (or whatever was after 1.2625), and then Prime didn't error, I got an actual crash. Not sure what to change, other than up my RAM voltage. But I don't think it's meant to take over 1.9.

 

[Sentry2]

@ Andvari

bump your ram up to 2.0v

and bump your vcore up to at least 1.3v


You can manually adjust the memory timings by pressing cntrl + F1 on the main screen in your bios. You'll then be able to mess with the timings...

@ Sutahz...there IS a pretty big difference in overclocking headroom between the B3 and G0 steppings(unless your lucky and happen to get a decent B3).


Lapping your cpu is probably the only way you'll get those temps to even out anymore.

 

[Andvari]

^Thanks for the suggestions, I'll give these a shot. And I have the revision 2.1 DS3R, I don't need to press Ctrl-F1 to adjust timings. =) 2v isn't bad for the RAM? It's listed as 1.8-1.9v on G.Skill's website.



EDIT: I put the vcore at 1.3, and no errors/crashes in Prime so far (only been about 5 minutes heh). I also put the RAM to +0.1v, but CPU-Z still shows it at 1.8v. *shrug* Loading at 62, 61, 57, 57, Freezer RPM 2.1k. I also have "Temp2" at 51, but I don't know what that is and hope that's alright. =( "Temp1" is at 42, but it was at 51 after some Crysis yesterday so I assume that's the 8800GTS. After this AS5 breaks in, maybe I'll load just under 60.

 

[Sentry2]

Andvari,

Set your ram back down to 266MHz. By setting it to 333MHz you're running dividers which could possibly be causing you problems. When you set your ram to 266 it will be running 1:1 with your fsb. If you had a 1333MHz fsb chip then you'd want to set your ram to 333MHz.

The NB/MCH voltage settings are in that bios. I have a DS3-L in my wife's computer.

So first try setting your ram to 266MHz...

Up your vdimm to 2.0v (+.2v)

Up your vcore to 1.3v - 1.325v (should be more than enough for 3.0GHz)

Find that MCH voltage and raise it a bit

Up the FSB voltage too

The SB voltage should be fine left on auto

and your temps are ok too.

Hope some of this helps.

 

[Sentry2]

Nah, 2.0v should be completely safe. That's cool you have a 2.1 because it gets old hitting control + F1 after every failed overclock to change the timings again.

If it runs perfect on 1.9v vdimm then of course there's no reason to go higher.

 

[Andvari]

Thanks for all the feedback Sentry!

You mean set the FSB back to 266? Then I'll be back down to 2.4ghz. The DS3R only allows me to adjust RAM frequency in terms of "System Memory Multiplier." I set that to 2.0, which means FSB x 2.0 which sets my RAM at 667mhz. According to Graysky's guide, that's 1:1. Is it not?

I did find the FSB and NB voltages after all (didn't realize it was called MCH). But I haven't raised them. If I get no errors, I assume I won't need to raise them any? And I'm not sure if I've even got the vdimm to 1.9, since CPU-Z says 1.8. I've been running Prime for 30 minutes, stable, and my cores have all dropped 1 degree actually. And the temperature in my room has raised 1 degree. lol *shrug*

EDIT: And on an unrelated note, my vcore in CPU-Z says 1.216v. That's vdroop I guess? That seems like a lot heh. Vdroop seems like a good thing. If it still runs stable, it's running at a lower voltage which should equate to lower temps if I understand properly.

 

[Sentry2]

Yeah, he's right. I see so many bios's every week sometimes I forget. Yes 2.0 is 1:1.

I wouldn't mess with any other voltages if you're stable where you are. Now if you wanna go higher it would be helpful to bump them up a bit.

I bet your chip will do 3.3GHz @ 1.35v. As long as the temps stay mid 60's or less you should be good. The G0 is rated higher but I probably wouldn't take it there...not for too long at least.

EDIT: That's a pretty big vdroop....sounds like there quite a bit more room to go on that chip.