FRS vs RX8 vs S2k

[satyajitmenon]

Interesting conclusion. Did not expect that.

 

[KentState]

Would love to find a low priced S2000.

 

[tweakmonkey]

The S2k should whip these cars' asses, since it did cost a lot more when it was new. But it was also a good value and well designed car from day 1 (the interior, lights, suspension, transmission etc. are all top notch for the price point and the engine's fantastic). Unless you need 1/4 mile times that compete with a Corvette, it'll always be a great car. I've had two AP1s... My current red 2001 model has 160k miles and still runs like a new car. It's surely not as comfy as a BRZ, but it's a lot more fun.

IMO...

RX8 is cool if you want something very pretty that's quirky and has back seats. Not a fan of an NA rotary which guzzles gas/oil, and I think an S2000 would whip its ass in a drag race. Still has a place in my heart but like the guy said at the end, I don't lust over it.

BRZ/Scion if you want something new (warranty) and easy to push hard safely. I can't imagine picking an RX8 over this car, and the BRZ is especially beautiful. I'd recommend it to a semi-enthusiast / someone new to sports cars that wants supreme bang for the buck. I'd rather drive this in traffic than the other 2.

Also... totally agree about electric power steering. Hydraulic PS is messy, complex, robs power and has no real "connected" feel like manual steering anyway. I've seen Cayman Ss and GT3s with PS failures at the track, making a huge mess and overheating. Properly done electric steering is great, which is why Porsche too abandoned hydraulic. I've had 3 cars with electric steering now... they're nimble when you want it and you definitely get as good of road feel as any hydraulic system if both are designed properly. Hydraulic's going the way of the dinosaur.

 

[Kaido]

Just curious, S2000 vs. Miata? In terms of fun-to-drive quality of small cars.

 

[ballmode]

Wish Everyday driver got more internet street cred, they failed on their Kickstarter

 

[satyajitmenon]

With Everyday driver got more internet street cred, they failed on their Kickstarter

I was one of the contributors to their kickstarter fund (which didn't get enough contributions to meet their target).

 

[QueBert]

I'm in the process of selling my Camry and getting an FRS, I've never driven an RX8 or S2k so I can't compare them. But I really like the looks of the FRS, and my attention was caught when I saw it on Leno's Garage. He said it was a lot of fun and he really liked it overall. If you're considering one, you should look into the BRZ too as already mentioned. I haven't done a ton of comparing the BRZ does have some pretty decent differences.

 

[Excelsior]

S2K owner here:

I love my car but the FRS/BRZ are certainly attractive options for a coupe but honestly, I still dream of small block chevy V8s with torque for days. If I upgraded right now, it'd be a C6 Corvette.

Unless the BRZ gets a touch more power…not asking for much, but I'd prefer maybe 10-15% more (this is without driving it, it may be fine).

 

[railer]

<shrug> I think that BRZ is overhyped. It's just too slow. I wouldn't care to own that car and have every knuckle-headed high school snot with his hat turned sideways in his civic SI smoking my ass at every stop light.
Maybe I'm too sensitive about things like that.

 

[Arkaign]

<shrug> I think that BRZ is overhyped. It's just too slow. I wouldn't care to own that car and have every knuckle-headed high school snot with his hat turned sideways in his civic SI smoking my ass at every stop light.
Maybe I'm too sensitive about things like that.

Fast
Good handling
Cheap

Impossible to get all three in a new car, arguably the Mustang 3.7 V6 6MT comes the closest, but still not perfect.

Hard to get all three even with a used car without introducing the ghoulish element of reliability problems. S2K hits close, but is not that fast really, but scores hard with handling and reliability. Vette hits close, but hard to find a really great one for cheap. Etc, etc. You end up with something like an E46 M3, have 100k+ miles on a German car, and generally look like a guido if you're not careful.

 

[zCypher]

Great video. I too think the FRS is interesting, but it being underpowered is kind of underwhelming! Still, can't argue that it's a great fun per dollar value.

 

[tcG]

My 'small + fun to drive' shortlist would include:

-MK1 MR2
-MK3 MR2
-AE86
-NA (First-gen) Miata
-FB (First-gen) RX-7
-EF Civic
-E30 3-series BMW
-Old Porsche

All would be more connected to the road, have more feeling, organicness, etc., than any of the three newer cars in the review. Much cheaper, too!

EDIT: I guess it's not all about rawness, though. I can imagine somebody preferring the newer cars to the ones I listed because the newer suspension designs and chassis stiffness might result in better handling characteristics.

 

[Fenixgoon]

very surprised at the RX8 and S2000 coming in front.

and as for small and fun, i bought my roommate's 1996 miata. unbelievable how much fun it is and how well it handles for simply putting good tires on.

 

[Kroze]

nice review. thanks.

 

[RedArmy]

Every time the BRZ/FRS/GT86 gets brought up someone says it's slow. But it's really not, it's fine as it is. It's an NA 4 cylinder, of course it lacks torque. If you want a FR car with more hp/torque for <30k brand new, good luck.

 

[phucheneh]

I really don't feel up to watching a 17min video at the moment. But I can surmise the results from the thread.

S2000 on top seems unsurprising. Seems like it should be up against a Mazdaspeed (or whatever high trim they made when the S2000 was in production) Miata or a BMW Z3/Z4.

...or...

um...

Have there been any other two seater roadsters for 'normal car' money? I can't think of any. 2000+ era, that is.

I am surprised that the RX8 beat the FR-S. For those who actually watched the video...where did the RX8 get its extra points from? I would think they handle competitively and, if anything, the RX8 is the slower one.

 

[jlee]

Every time the BRZ/FRS/GT86 gets brought up someone says it's slow. But it's really not, it's fine as it is. It's an NA 4 cylinder, of course it lacks torque. If you want a FR car with more hp/torque for <30k brand new, good luck.

http://www.ford.com/cars/mustang/

 

[mafia]

http://www.ford.com/cars/mustang/

The FT86 comes standard with a TORSEN limited slip differential and 50:50 weight distribution. The Mustang V6 doesn't. Try again..

 

[KentState]

The FT86 comes standard with a TORSEN limited slip differential and 50:50 weight distribution. The Mustang V6 doesn't. Try again..

What does that have to with his post? The question was simply to point out another <30K car with more HP and torque. The V6 Mustang or Camaro both fit that bill easily.

 

[Throckmorton]

The FT86 comes standard with a TORSEN limited slip differential and 50:50 weight distribution. The Mustang V6 doesn't. Try again..

The 2005 Mustang GT had 53/47 F/R weight distribution so I'm guessing the 3.7L V6 model is very close to 50/50. The Sciobaru isn't 50/50, I think it's something like 52/48. They chose to put the boxer engine in front of the front axle.

 

[railer]

The FT86 comes standard with a TORSEN limited slip differential and 50:50 weight distribution. The Mustang V6 doesn't. Try again..

And I say <shrug> again.

I betcha that v6 Mustang would wallop the BRZ around a track anyway. But since 99% of people who buy either car don't actually drive them on the track, does it really matter, or is it just something to talk about on the internet? If the car I'm in is getting destroyed by some random blue-hair in their 1998 Camry to the next stoplight, then it's just not that much fun to me.

 

[JCH13]

This review seems very honest and well-done. I'm not too surprised at the results, especially considering the rankings exactly correlated to the MSRP of each vehicle, not even accounting for inflation. $36k S2000, $33k R3 RX-8, $25+/- BRZ.

Also, this is making me seriously consider putting an S2K driveline in an NA Miata...

 

[mafia]

And I say <shrug> again.

I betcha that v6 Mustang would wallop the BRZ around a track anyway. But since 99% of people who buy either car don't actually drive them on the track, does it really matter, or is it just something to talk about on the internet? If the car I'm in is getting destroyed by some random blue-hair in their 1998 Camry to the next stoplight, then it's just not that much fun to me.

What I'm trying to say is, the FT86 is more of a drivers car. You will feel more confident pushing the BRZ/FRS to its limits on the track then a Mustang, thus you will accumulate better lap times. FYI, and that's what I've seen happen, first hand. It's all about confidence on the track. But if you don't track your vehicle or participate in any Motorsport activities, then I guess there is justification for a V6 Mustang.

But I think the BRZ/FRS is the ONLY FR car that costs less than 30k new that has a LSD and even weight distribution. That can't be beat now. If you want a comparable Mustang *GT with track package*, you will need to cough up more money.

 

[Throckmorton]

And I say <shrug> again.

I betcha that v6 Mustang would wallop the BRZ around a track anyway. But since 99% of people who buy either car don't actually drive them on the track, does it really matter, or is it just something to talk about on the internet? If the car I'm in is getting destroyed by some random blue-hair in their 1998 Camry to the next stoplight, then it's just not that much fun to me.

I haven't driven any of these cars... maybe I should have when I was shopping. But I had a NA Miata and an E36 and the Mustang's handling compares pretty well to those.

I was reading on the BRZ forum that the front struts have no negative camber gain during body roll, similar to the E36. I guess they don't want you to oversteer too much. That's not the case for the Mustang. So even though it has the live axle and slightly less perfect weight distribution, it's better in other ways than the BRZ.

 

[rsutoratosu]

You can always do a v8 miata conversion.. they were so popular back in the days