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from what you people have seen of me...

G

Goosemaster

Lifer
I've been working with my dad (constrcution/laboring/contracting) and he can't afford to pay me the little he was paying me and I need money for school🙁


Basically, I've taken all CCNA classes and never took the test due to monetary reasons.

Other than that, I am your basic "guy who knows a lot without any certs and without the money to get them currently."

Any advice as to what are good things to say to the management on this issue? A few months ago I was SURE that I had nailed and interview for an internship, until I had to meet with the CFO. He started asking personal questions about school and stuff and then got to why I was asking for an internship position with his big firm. I told him I would take the paycut since I was really interested in experience in the field and didn't need that much money to live off of anyways (truth). They never called me back.

I impress or at least satisfy everyone I meet, and have always gotten the job but recently I left the field due to management problems and now am having trouble getting back into it.


Any advice from you kind folks?
 
Get out of the job of fixing things.

That's all I can say.

Get into the job of providing solutions, knowing the business and the forces that drive it.

Next - don't ever talk money at the 1st interview, and for sure don't be begging (like you did)

If you can get hooked up with a mentor or somebody who can work with you. Who you know and how you interact/speak/communicate with people are MUCH more imporant than any skill you can bring to the table.
 
Originally posted by: spidey07
Get out of the job of fixing things.

That's all I can say.

Get into the job of providing solutions, knowing the business and the forces that drive it.

Next - don't ever talk money at the 1st interview, and for sure don't be begging (like you did)

If you can get hooked up with a mentor or somebody who can work with you. Who you know and how you interact/speak/communicate with people are MUCH more imporant than any skill you can bring to the table.
Click to expand...

I wasn't begging, or at least not from my perspective. I could see how it could be misconstrued as begging, but that is a BIG stretch. I was direct. I continuously said that the pay really wasn't an issue with me after he asked me time and time again why I didn't want a much better paying job, not that I acted like I wanted a handout. I guess I have to be ready to make sure not to dig myself holes of any kind?

I usually make them happy because I have had to work for HEADSTART and otherr places which trained me to deal with practically ANYTHING, so it is almost impossible to get me angry in public and am incredibly patient with clients..family is a whole 'nother thing😉

As for getting out of fixing things, I agree compeltely. I am sick of it, and on multiple ocassions have enjoyed my oppertunities to cosult with businesses. I really don't know where to start as far as getting a mentor goes. I really would love to consult, but don't even know where to start except in methods that seem ridiculous to me right now, such as going and speaking directly with companies. The ones I consulted where through and old job and through personal connections, and the personal ones never turned up any more leads🙁
 
I guess setting things up like m0n0wall up for businesses would be a start...but where do I begin?🙁


I've done a few 20 + client - windows 2000/2003 domains put people usually hire firms for that🙁
 
Originally posted by: spidey07
Next - don't ever talk money at the 1st interview, and for sure don't be begging (like you did).
Click to expand...
:thumbsup: Yup. Only beg for sex.

On a different note, you might consider locating local IT consultant companies in your area and letting them know you are around and what your skills are. You never know when they might need some assistance with a large or specialized job. And that might lead to more consulting work.
 
Originally posted by: RebateMonger
Originally posted by: spidey07
Next - don't ever talk money at the 1st interview, and for sure don't be begging (like you did).
Click to expand...
:thumbsup: Yup. Only beg for sex.

On a different note, you might consider locating local IT consultant companies in your area and letting them know you are around and what your skills are. You never know when they might need some assistance with a large or specialized job. And that might lead to more consulting work.
Click to expand...

Intersting. I am applying for a CTO assistant job at the moment, annd I will definitely strike up some conversatiosn with local companies.🙂


Thank you for the advice as well🙂
 
Repeat after me....

"It is not what you know but who you know."

that very fact and underlying truth will pound into your skull.

Put yourself in the position of who you know and exposed to.

This is your career. This is your business network. It's like a garden and it doesn't happen overnight. Care for it, feed it, nuture it and the fruits will come.

-edit-
hard to bash you over the head on an internet forum....

You basically insulted the guy you were interviewing with. This skill of dealing with both sides of the table and quickly understand why they are asking you that as well as how you present to them will come for you.

Just make sure you think about what you are about to say and word it properly. You're a cool guy, but think before you speak.

I'm a shoot from the hip kinda-guy as well and it has taken a long time for me to develop the skill of digesting/listening. Take the time to truly listen to people. It wouldn't hurt you to take some training/courses in general business etique.

It's really hard to desribe on a forum. But there is a method to the dance and it helps if you know what dance you are involved in.

I can't offer any real career advice for you right now - but YOU need to know where you want to be in 5 years, 10 years, 20 years. You mold/direct your decisions around that and try to handle the changes that can/will happen that are beyond your control.
 
Thanks Spidey...great advice....🙂

I guess I understood why the guy was asking those questions, but was too ignorant to address his tactics. I didn't mean to downplay the position I was apply for but I guess that is what I did. I probably made him think that his porganizations was just 'some job' so I could pay the bills, when in fact I was very interested in a carrer there.

Everyone keeps telling me to listen. The thing is, as a translator, a technician, a math tutor, a restaurant emplyee..as all those thigns plus much more, I thought I was listening enough, but I guess I havea ways to go.


Ocne again, thanks to all for the raw feedback🙂
 
The art of listening is the art of keeping your mouth shut and reading the other party.

Interviewing?

You are selling. You are a salesman. Take the role of a saleman...just don't be the used car salesman.

I've had negotations break down plenty of times. No big deal, it's business. It happens...it happens all the time. Thing is you didn't even reach negotiation.....the customer walked onto your lot and kicked the tires/price and decided he didn't want to do business.

 
ah.


Having reflected on previous cover letter, they were pretty bad and riddled with all of the flaws that you all ahve mentioned😱 I definitely added that mentality to it just now.
 
Originally posted by: GoosemasterBasically, I've taken all CCNA classes and never took the test due to monetary reasons.
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You should make an effort to finish it or do something comparable.

With every new development there is a period of time that people can obtain decent Jobs with No Degree-Cert. Unfortunately in ?Computer Game? this period is iis over.

You might know better than a lot of guys with Certs, never the less you are severely limiting your self, and most times has less chance than a guy (that might know less than you) but has Degree-cert.

Many Pros knows that there are people who know their business and can do better then some certs. However in most cases it is a matter of policy and a type of Job related security. I.e. an executive that hire someone without a cert. might lose his job if something goes wrong coz it would be considered that he took unnecessary risk.

All of the above means trouble in places were there is CTO, CFO, and the rest of the Cs.

It is a different story in small pops and moms businesses. There saving money by hiring a none cert might be the overriding consideration.

Spidey is right there is nothing better than personal relation with some one who have a say in hiring; alas many people do not have a doorway to such an avenue.

:sun:

P.S. All of the above have to consider that I am a New Yorker, life is tough in the Big Apple 😉
 
I agree that you should go for your CCNA. I just took my exam on friday and passed it on the first shot after taking both the intro and ICND classes. I don't think you'll have any trouble with it as I only devoted a couple of hours to studying for it and did just fine.

Bascially, businesses want some way of knowing you're as good as you say you are and certifications are a good way of doing that. I've been working as a systems administrator for the past 9 months (I took over for my old boss who left) but I need to find a position in the big city now. It's extremely tough as my CCNA is my first certification and I don't have a degree. I haven't even managed an interview yet so you're doing better than I. 🙂
 
Have or develop some ambition and motivation, and keep in mind that you can accomplish a lot with that ambition and motivation, often more than more talented or educated peers lacking that motivation.

Question of tastes in work, future goals, and money sometimes are intended to look at what motivates you -- whether you'll take to the current job; whether you'll job hop as soon as you get "accredited" to a greater salary, etc. Money is often a tricky subject, and sometimes it's the essential subject. If you don't seem to at least recognize it so, you may be deemed unsuitable. It's also a tool, and if you seem indifferent to that tool, then you may be deemed unsuitable. The quest for more money is also related to ambition and associated with the effort you will put into ambition.

Some of the coolest opportunities are going to be those where they look beyond your paper skills and assess you as a future asset. This is especially important in "entry" positions in companies with career opportunities. Give respect and credit to the people who will look at you beyond the immediate job spec. And look beyond it yourself to deserve that attention.

(I've given far more interviews than experienced them myself, and though technical, not in networking. Technical skills, motivation, and fit were most important to me. Money was also important, but this was a negotiable secondary aspect within typical ranges. I've hired people who did so-so in technical tests because I could tell that they were damn smart despite that; I've hired people who didn't directly have the best fit for the current job because their talents made them an asset to us for the future, and I was supported in this by my management.)
 
I am your basic "guy who knows a lot without any certs and without the money to get them currently."
Click to expand...

its hard to hire someone like this because even though you "know a lot" where is the proof? knowing a lot is a matter of opinion. usualy your own opinion. also when your company gets audited they want to see your "ducks in a row" things like confidentiality agreements, due diligence on vendors & are your employees qualified to do the work they were hired for.

an interview is find out things that you can't find out on paper.
1. will you get along with other employees?
2. will you show up on time?
3. do you have the people skills necessary?
4. can you communicate with users of different skill levels?

these are just a few of the things that an interviewer can tell about and interviewee.

if you get the interview it usually mean that your basically qualified for the position and that they are somewhat interested. stick to the facts in an interview and don't say you have done something if you haven't. it will always bite you in the end. there is always someone who knows more than you & someone who knows less than you.
 
try to work your way into development, fixing stuff is great, but writing code, creating sollutions, making things happens is the best, atleast thatz what i feel
 
Originally posted by: blemoine
I am your basic "guy who knows a lot without any certs and without the money to get them currently."
Click to expand...

its hard to hire someone like this because even though you "know a lot" where is the proof? knowing a lot is a matter of opinion. usualy your own opinion. also when your company gets audited they want to see your "ducks in a row" things like confidentiality agreements, due diligence on vendors & are your employees qualified to do the work they were hired for.

an interview is find out things that you can't find out on paper.
1. will you get along with other employees?
2. will you show up on time?
3. do you have the people skills necessary?
4. can you communicate with users of different skill levels?

these are just a few of the things that an interviewer can tell about and interviewee.

if you get the interview it usually mean that your basically qualified for the position and that they are somewhat interested. stick to the facts in an interview and don't say you have done something if you haven't. it will always bite you in the end. there is always someone who knows more than you & someone who knows less than you.
Click to expand...

thanks🙂


I am already starting to see the multitude of errors that I have committed😱
 
Work on a more non IT position. I broke into stuff doing lower level QA testing for a large MFP firm, and from there, I'm now (recently) Manager of Lab Infrastructure, meaning I now manage a very fluid lab, with 600+ PC's and a 6500 Cat, lots of changes (lots of rolling to entirely new layouts for new customers). QA is a good experience for hands on, and provides "time in the industry"
 
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