From roads to ruin, Baghdad gets back on track

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Ozoned

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2004
5,578
0
0
Originally posted by: winnar111



We can only congratulate our troops on a job well done, and a victory that would not have been possible had Barack Hussein Obama came into office a year before.

I am elated that good things are happening in Iraq. There are those that say they would have done it different, or not at all, and express some sort of imaginary outcome that is other than the reality we have. That just isn't possible, to make a claim like that, no matter how believable it might be. No matter what the hind-sight is.

I guess what I am getting at is that you can only speculate that this outcome would be different under Obama. No way to pronounce it as fact.
 

KGB

Diamond Member
May 11, 2000
3,042
0
0
Originally posted by: tweaker2
Nah, he just lit and dropped this little firecracker of a topic into P&N to have some fun. He must be really bored or something.;)

edit - On topic, exaggerating the positive and completely ignoring the negative makes for a very weak argument.


Exactly. BTW, when are all of those concrete barricades coming down in Baghdad?

 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
86
Lyle Lanley: Well, sir, there's nothing on earth
Like a genuine,
Bona fide,
Electrified,
Six-car
Monorail!
What'd I say?
Ned Flanders: Monorail!
Lyle Lanley: What's it called?
Patty+Selma: Monorail!
Lyle Lanley: That's right! Monorail!
[crowd chants `Monorail' softly and rhythmically]
Miss Hoover: I hear those things are awfully loud...
Lyle Lanley: It glides as softly as a cloud.
Apu: Is there a chance the track could bend?
Lyle Lanley: Not on your life, my Hindu friend.
Barney: What about us brain-dead slobs?
Lyle Lanley: You'll be given cushy jobs.
Abe: Were you sent here by the devil?
Lyle Lanley: No, good sir, I'm on the level.
Wiggum: The ring came off my pudding can.
Lyle Lanley: Take my pen knife, my good man.
I swear it's Springfield's only choice...
Throw up your hands and raise your voice!
All: Monorail!
Lyle Lanley: What's it called?
All: Monorail!
Lyle Lanley: Once again...
All: Monorail!
Marge: But Main Street's still all cracked and broken...
Bart: Sorry, Mom, the mob has spoken!
All: Monorail!
Monorail!
Monorail!
[big finish]
Monorail!
Homer: Mono... D'oh!

;)
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
36,057
10,389
136
Originally posted by: MotF Bane
Originally posted by: BarneyFife
No WMD, over 4k Americans dead, and the US is bankrupt. Where is our cake and ice cream to celebrate?

We're broke, we can't buy the cake and cream. Sorry.

Our debt was $9 trillion before 2008, we've spent over $4 trillion in 2008, so with at LEAST $13 trillion debt you complain about 1/13th of the sum as if THAT is what bankrupted the nation? Learn to prioritize.

It contributed, but it was relatively small.
 

freegeeks

Diamond Member
May 7, 2001
5,460
1
81
Originally posted by: winnar111
Originally posted by: BarneyFife
No WMD, over 4k Americans dead, and the US is bankrupt. Where is our cake and ice cream to celebrate?

You can now go to Baghdad and ride the subway to eat it.

Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty. - John Kennedy

bwahahahahah

some of you guys are so funny :D
 

halik

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
25,696
1
81
Originally posted by: BarneyFife
No WMD, over 4k Americans dead, and the US is bankrupt. Where is our cake and ice cream to celebrate?

I can think of countless ways that money would've been better served. When's is your next vacation in Baghadad to enjoy the fruits of our tax money?

No, this was a huge cluster fuck and a neocon wet dream. I'm still appalled that you Americans let it happen.
 

halik

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
25,696
1
81
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: Craig234
I think critics of the war need to remember how bad Saddam was as well, with no end in sight to his rule, and pay some attention to the need for *some* policy about that.

Why? Saddam wasn't a threat to us.

Was continuing the Clinton policies on Iraq the best policy,

Hell no. His policies resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi people.


or was there a third option?

Yeah, it's called mind your own fucking business. Lead the world by example, not force.
Craig is appealing to basic decency as a human.

As a human, he has the right to send his own self and/or his own resources overseas to take out monsters.


John Quincy Adams....

And now, friends and countrymen, if the wise and learned philosophers of the elder world, the first observers of nutation and aberration, the discoverers of maddening ether and invisible planets, the inventors of Congreve rockets and Shrapnel shells, should find their hearts disposed to enquire what has America done for the benefit of mankind?

Let our answer be this: America, with the same voice which spoke herself into existence as a nation, proclaimed to mankind the inextinguishable rights of human nature, and the only lawful foundations of government. America, in the assembly of nations, since her admission among them, has invariably, though often fruitlessly, held forth to them the hand of honest friendship, of equal freedom, of generous reciprocity.

She has uniformly spoken among them, though often to heedless and often to disdainful ears, the language of equal liberty, of equal justice, and of equal rights.

She has, in the lapse of nearly half a century, without a single exception, respected the independence of other nations while asserting and maintaining her own.

She has abstained from interference in the concerns of others, even when conflict has been for principles to which she clings, as to the last vital drop that visits the heart.

She has seen that probably for centuries to come, all the contests of that Aceldama the European world, will be contests of inveterate power, and emerging right.

Wherever the standard of freedom and Independence has been or shall be unfurled, there will her heart, her benedictions and her prayers be.

But she goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy.

She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all.

She is the champion and vindicator only of her own.

She will commend the general cause by the countenance of her voice, and the benignant sympathy of her example.

She well knows that by once enlisting under other banners than her own, were they even the banners of foreign independence, she would involve herself beyond the power of extrication, in all the wars of interest and intrigue, of individual avarice, envy, and ambition, which assume the colors and usurp the standard of freedom.

The fundamental maxims of her policy would insensibly change from liberty to force....

She might become the dictatress of the world. She would be no longer the ruler of her own spirit....

[America's] glory is not dominion, but liberty. Her march is the march of the mind. She has a spear and a shield: but the motto upon her shield is, Freedom, Independence, Peace. This has been her Declaration: this has been, as far as her necessary intercourse with the rest of mankind would permit, her practice.

Quoted for 100% truth. If you don't like what Saddam/KimJongIl/* is doing, feel free to spend your own money to fix it. Don't tax ME for YOUR wars.
 

retrospooty

Platinum Member
Apr 3, 2002
2,031
74
86
We won?

We haven't even left yet. When we leave the factions will start fighting again... If not within a few months, certainly within a few years. Its been under constant war and hostile takovers since 3000BC - that 5000 years. We didnt change a damn thing, we were just the lastest military action.

I personally want my 500 billion dollars back.
 

TheSlamma

Diamond Member
Sep 6, 2005
7,625
5
81
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: TheSlamma
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: cyclohexane
wow, the op must be taking some serious drugs.

Hope he is packing too. Airline tickects have come down a little with lower fuel costs.
How old are you?

old enough to know better because obviously you don't.
I'm not the child telling everyone to pack their bags and leave the country if they don't agree with Fuhrer Dave.
 

TheSlamma

Diamond Member
Sep 6, 2005
7,625
5
81
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: TheSlamma
I'm not the child telling everyone to pack their bags and leave the country if they don't agree with Fuhrer Dave.

I'm pointing out the best option for Republicans that don't like America.

"Each man must for himself alone decide what is right and what is wrong, which course is patriotic and which isn't. You cannot shirk this and be a man. To decide against your conviction is to be an unqualified and inexcusable traitor, both to yourself and to your country, let men label you as they may."

You cannot possibly be a man.

 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
66,544
14,935
146
Originally posted by: winnar111
http://www.theage.com.au/world...ack-20081118-6aax.html

A YEAR ago it would have been unthinkable. After all, it was a city where driving to work became a life-or-death decision and where residents were cooped in enclaves amid murder and mayhem.

But the Mayor of Baghdad has surprised everyone by announcing plans for an underground rail network that would literally carve a swathe through the city's sectarian lines.

If investors sign up, the world's most violent capital will soon have a $US3 billion ($A4.6 billion) metro. Mayor Sabir al-Issawi said money had been set aside in next year's budget for a feasibility study.

And if if goes ahead, the Iraqi Government has earmarked money that it says could build most of the two mooted rail lines without private help. Even the country's optimists were last night calling the plan ambitious, but lauding its audacity.

In a city where raw waste often spills from an antique sewer system, power goes off hourly, a postal service does not exist and public transport has long been a fantasy, lofty ideas have recently been capturing imaginations.

Last month planning got under way for an above-ground commuter train line in the city's west, which is set to remove thousands of cars from an approach to Baghdad known as bomb alley. And since then, a series of roads and a highly symbolic bridge have reopened to cars and pedestrians.

The al-Aaimmah bridge linking the mostly Sunni neighbourhood of Adhamiya and the predominantly Shiite district of Khademiya was opened last Tuesday, three years after nearly 1000 Shiite pilgrims died in a stampede on the span. And Berlin-style walls put in place to keep Shiites and Sunnis apart have gradually come down.

Baghdad's civic planners seem intent on making connections. But the small steps they have taken so far pale next to the grand plan for a metro.

A rail line under Baghdad was first flagged under Saddam Hussein during the 1970s, but shelved owing to three decades of war, blockades and invasion.

One of the proposed lines would run 18 kilometres from Shiite-dominated Sadr City in the east to Adhamiya in north Baghdad. The other would run 21 kilometres, linking central Baghdad to the primarily Sunni western suburbs. Each line would have 20 stations.

They run through a patchwork of sectarian neighbourhoods, which largely remain divided, despite the security improvements. Bombs still rattle Baghdad daily, but on a much smaller scale than the violence that ravaged the capital throughout 2006-07.

"If anyone suggested a train back then, they would have been sent to one of Saddam's old mental homes and never heard from again," said Umm Fatimah, 41, from the suburb of Karada. "Even now it does seem a bit crazy."

Another Karada resident, Nazem al-Qasemi, said something had to be done to unclog Baghdad's arterial roads.

The project's engineer, Atta Nabil Hussain Auni Atta, of Iraq's Transport Ministry, said 1970s blueprints for the underground line were being redrawn to bring it up to the specifications of modern railways.

"This is one of Baghdad's most important projects and we hope that investors will join it," he said. "We have called for tenders from them ? We are planning to start work as early as next year.

"This has been postponed so many times because of war and chaos, but this time we are sure it will happen."


We can only congratulate our troops on a job well done, and a victory that would not have been possible had Barack Hussein Obama came into office a year before.

Baghdad has less violence than DC and Chicago nowadays.



Yet another "Mission Accomplished" from one of the Bush faithful?
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: TheSlamma
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: TheSlamma
I'm not the child telling everyone to pack their bags and leave the country if they don't agree with Fuhrer Dave.

I'm pointing out the best option for Republicans that don't like America.

"Each man must for himself alone decide what is right and what is wrong, which course is patriotic and which isn't. You cannot shirk this and be a man. To decide against your conviction is to be an unqualified and inexcusable traitor, both to yourself and to your country, let men label you as they may."

You cannot possibly be a man.

and you can't possibly be an American.
 

ultra laser

Banned
Jul 2, 2007
513
0
0
I find it interesting that more Americans died fighting terrorism than being victims of terrorism. It doesn't seem worth it, does it?
 

Ozoned

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2004
5,578
0
0
Originally posted by: ultra laser
I find it interesting that more Americans died fighting terrorism than being victims of terrorism. It doesn't seem worth it, does it?

Never know, will we? No alternate endings, where we are .
 

fallout man

Golden Member
Nov 20, 2007
1,787
1
0
What good is an underground subway when there's only 15 minutes of electricity per day to run it? Also, fixing up the sewer system would be a good thing to check off their list first, unless they want those underground tunnels full of shit within a few weeks.
 

dlx22

Golden Member
Apr 19, 2006
1,285
0
0
Originally posted by: ultra laser
I find it interesting that more Americans died fighting terrorism than being victims of terrorism. It doesn't seem worth it, does it?

I find it interesting that we wage war today and nobody expects anyone to die anymore, yeah it sucks but fear the day one side can win a war without casualties.
 
Dec 10, 2005
29,317
14,769
136
Originally posted by: dlx22
Originally posted by: ultra laser
I find it interesting that more Americans died fighting terrorism than being victims of terrorism. It doesn't seem worth it, does it?

I find it interesting that we wage war today and nobody expects anyone to die anymore, yeah it sucks but fear the day one side can win a war without casualties.

I don't think there is anyone that doesn't understand that (to quote a tv show) "there's only one truth about war; people die. Killing is part of a soldier's job - we can't deny it. We can only live with it and hope the reasons for doing it are justified."

The problem people have is that we went into Iraq on false pretenses and proceeded to fuck things up more than they already were while wasting billions of dollars in the process.
 

dlx22

Golden Member
Apr 19, 2006
1,285
0
0
Originally posted by: Brainonska511
Originally posted by: dlx22
Originally posted by: ultra laser
I find it interesting that more Americans died fighting terrorism than being victims of terrorism. It doesn't seem worth it, does it?

I find it interesting that we wage war today and nobody expects anyone to die anymore, yeah it sucks but fear the day one side can win a war without casualties.

I don't think there is anyone that doesn't understand that (to quote a tv show) "there's only one truth about war; people die. Killing is part of a soldier's job - we can't deny it. We can only live with it and hope the reasons for doing it are justified."

The problem people have is that we went into Iraq on false pretenses and proceeded to fuck things up more than they already were while wasting billions of dollars in the process.

I see your point and completely agree, I just wonder if no one had died on our side and our economy was doing fine if there would be nearly as much outrage.
 

trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
15,983
8,582
136
Originally posted by: dlx22
Originally posted by: Brainonska511
Originally posted by: dlx22
Originally posted by: ultra laser
I find it interesting that more Americans died fighting terrorism than being victims of terrorism. It doesn't seem worth it, does it?

I find it interesting that we wage war today and nobody expects anyone to die anymore, yeah it sucks but fear the day one side can win a war without casualties.

I don't think there is anyone that doesn't understand that (to quote a tv show) "there's only one truth about war; people die. Killing is part of a soldier's job - we can't deny it. We can only live with it and hope the reasons for doing it are justified."

The problem people have is that we went into Iraq on false pretenses and proceeded to fuck things up more than they already were while wasting billions of dollars in the process.

I see your point and completely agree, I just wonder if no one had died on our side and our economy was doing fine if there would be nearly as much outrage.

I believe that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfled and Wolfowitz, all huddled up in their own fantasy world of Pleasantville, were very heavily depending on that to happen when they pulled the trigger. Too bad they only listened to themselves and didn't listen to all of those very experienced folks that tried to persuade them out of it.

edit- -And look what happened to those Generals and Admirals that tried to stick their thumbs in between the firing pin and bullet to keep the six shooter from firing that 'ol Bush had aimed at Iraq.

 

Balt

Lifer
Mar 12, 2000
12,673
482
126
Originally posted by: winnar111

We can only congratulate our troops on a job well done, and a victory that would not have been possible had Barack Hussein Obama came into office a year before.

Baghdad has less violence than DC and Chicago nowadays.

Yeah, and if Obama had been in office in 2003 we never would have entered this meaningless war in the first place that will cost us over 4,000 American lives, tens of thousands maimed, and 1+ trillion dollars we can't pay for. Good argument, imbecile. :roll:
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
126
Originally posted by: winnar111
Originally posted by: BarneyFife
No WMD, over 4k Americans dead, and the US is bankrupt. Where is our cake and ice cream to celebrate?

You can now go to Baghdad and ride the subway to eat it.

Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty. - John Kennedy

Nice quote but as usual out of context!!! pathetic...involking the name of John Kennedy to attempt to justify this so called war...sad
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,336
11
0
What the hell does California have to do to get a decent public transport system?