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from another thread here: 'superior' genetics creates superior opportunity in life?

jaqie

jaqie

Platinum Member
I heartily disagree with this. This is a society created, not genetics created situation. Forrest Gump while being fiction does show how someone without good genetics can create their own success. Many people in Dirty Jobs episodes have done such themselves as well. History is full of examples of invention which was taken by someone with superior intellect and drive, and society rewarded them instead of the inventor of an idea, a technology, a concept, a product. A lot of them are either dumb luck (inventor of teflon, vulcanization, et cetra) or by simple exposure to a need (inventor of handheld drills, circular saws, et cetra). Heck even many things we use nowadays were invented by people with disabilities and problems in life that saw something was needed for themselves and those in similar situations.

Necessity is the mother of invention, not genetics. Invention doesn't mean just a new product.
 
Well, you're right in a way, but the right genes certainly do help. Environmental factors affect us too. There's no simple answer really. Genetics and the environment themselves are complicated things to understand when taken individually, let alone the interaction between both.
 
Good genetics are not the only factor. They definitely help though. If you want to get ahead in life, legally, then you need a little bit of luck, some good genes, and some hard work. If you're missing the genes you're just going to have work that much harder.

So while you can invent a circular saw through necessity and even write the Declaration of Independence I think it's safe to say that most people who are doing well for themselves are not Forrest Gump. They have a good head on their shoulders, worked hard, and had a little bit of luck help them along the way.
 
I disagree with the Forrest Gump analogy. He did good because Lt. Dan invested in "some fruit company" (Apple) that made him rich. He just got lucky, it had nothing to do with his hard work at all.


Also, as we get more and more technologically advanced, genes play a smaller roll in how we succeed in life. Before civilizations, nomadic tribes would succeed by the largest, strongest, faster surviving. This was heavily influenced by genes and is evolution. However, in today's society, being big and strong and fast are only important in sports. Physical disability no longer holds a person back nearly as much as it has in the past.
 
smackababy said:
Also, as we get more and more technologically advanced, genes play a smaller roll in how we succeed in life. Before civilizations, nomadic tribes would succeed by the largest, strongest, faster surviving. This was heavily influenced by genes and is evolution. However, in today's society, being big and strong and fast are only important in sports. Physical disability no longer holds a person back nearly as much as it has in the past.
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Not to mention that as technology and science improve, we will be able to modify people's genetics/innate constitution to give them better potential as well.
 
jaqie said:
History is full of examples of invention which was taken by someone with superior intellect and drive, and society rewarded them instead of the inventor of an idea, a technology, a concept, a product.
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Society does not benefit much from a technology that no one else knows. There are billions of people, and lots of inventions happen the world over all the time, but it is the ones that someone can get into the hands of the masses that really matter.
So, while the 'dumb luck' of inventing is important, it happens many times a day, it is the person with the intellect and drive is what improves the lives of everyone else.
 
SMOGZINN said:
Society does not benefit much from a technology that no one else knows. There are billions of people, and lots of inventions happen the world over all the time, but it is the ones that someone can get into the hands of the masses that really matter.
So, while the 'dumb luck' of inventing is important, it happens many times a day, it is the person with the intellect and drive is what improves the lives of everyone else.
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This is off-topic to the post. I am speaking of opportunity, not of how this society handles things. Your post is entirely on how this society handles invention and such, not on genetics creating superior opportunity in life or not.

I may be mistaken, if so I apologize; but I believe off topic posts like this are against the spirit and rules of this particular subforum.
 
OinkBoink said:
Not to mention that as technology and science improve, we will be able to modify people's genetics/innate constitution to give them better potential as well.
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But potential to do what? A lot of wonderful things were made because of the problems bad genes have caused in our lives. Worth it? not sure, another topic. True? Definitely. If there were no inferior genes, many things which help daily lives of everyone would never have come to fruition let alone been thought of.
 
smackababy said:
I disagree with the Forrest Gump analogy. He did good because Lt. Dan invested in "some fruit company" (Apple) that made him rich. He just got lucky, it had nothing to do with his hard work at all.
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No, he did better financially because of that. Before that he owned a huge shrimping company by a combination of hard work and a huge hit of dumb luck. that had everything to do with his luck combined with hard work.

I am not talking about him being rich here, I am talking about great things being done - not the same thing. His shrimping business was huge despite his inferior genes... or more to the point because of them his attitude and look on life was so different he did what nobody else would have - followed his friend's dream of a shrimping company.
 
randomrogue said:
Good genetics are not the only factor. They definitely help though. If you want to get ahead in life, legally, then you need a little bit of luck, some good genes, and some hard work. If you're missing the genes you're just going to have work that much harder.

So while you can invent a circular saw through necessity and even write the Declaration of Independence I think it's safe to say that most people who are doing well for themselves are not Forrest Gump. They have a good head on their shoulders, worked hard, and had a little bit of luck help them along the way.
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That's my very point! That is society-driven, not genetics driven. Genetics play a huge role because of how this particular society was formed, not because of them alone.

I am not trying to get into politics beyond saying what I just did above. This society is what favors good genetics, not opportunity itself.
 
jaqie said:
But potential to do what? A lot of wonderful things were made because of the problems bad genes have caused in our lives. Worth it? not sure, another topic. True? Definitely. If there were no inferior genes, many things which help daily lives of everyone would never have come to fruition let alone been thought of.
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Well, that's true. As you said, necessity is the mother of invention. But as long as people do not have income equality, as long as they're looked down upon by society or mocked by people for not being intelligent enough, beautiful enough or productive enough, the desire to improve will exist.

Probably giving everyone good genes will cause problems of itself which will enable us to go to the next stage of intellectual and spiritual evolution. Maybe this in between stage is inevitable for the ideas of care, compassion etc. to sink into to people's minds and for them to realise/realize that more in life is out of our control than in our control and that we need to be grateful for what we have and be compassionate towards those who don't.
 
jaqie said:
This is off-topic to the post. I am speaking of opportunity, not of how this society handles things. Your post is entirely on how this society handles invention and such, not on genetics creating superior opportunity in life or not.

I may be mistaken, if so I apologize; but I believe off topic posts like this are against the spirit and rules of this particular subforum.
Click to expand...

You asked does 'superior' genetics creates superior opportunity. I'm answering just that.
I'm using your example, of a someone with poor genetics that invents something and someone with superior genetics that takes it and makes a fortune from it. The person with poor genetics was a accident, it was just pure chance that made it happen for them. The superior genetics person had an advantage that they are able to use to create opportunity.

Anyone could have invented the gizmo that the intelligent person made the fortune from, but only the intelligent person could have made the fortune.
 
jaqie said:
I heartily disagree with this. This is a society created, not genetics created situation. Forrest Gump while being fiction does show how someone without good genetics can create their own success. Many people in Dirty Jobs episodes have done such themselves as well. History is full of examples of invention which was taken by someone with superior intellect and drive, and society rewarded them instead of the inventor of an idea, a technology, a concept, a product. A lot of them are either dumb luck (inventor of teflon, vulcanization, et cetra) or by simple exposure to a need (inventor of handheld drills, circular saws, et cetra). Heck even many things we use nowadays were invented by people with disabilities and problems in life that saw something was needed for themselves and those in similar situations.

Necessity is the mother of invention, not genetics. Invention doesn't mean just a new product.
Click to expand...

I have always found for myself that laziness is the mother of invention. I will spend all day thinking of ways to make easier doing something I don't like doing.

But, as I mentioned in perhaps the same thread you refer to, I am too lazy to check, you will not get far in any discussion of personal success and good genetics, in my opinion. As I said, the notion of success is tied up with self image and people compete for image because they hate themselves. People don't know they hate themselves, don't want to know it, and don't want to know they don't want to know, so all of the stuff folk believe about personal achievement is all about flattery of the ego.

The whole notion of the inferiority of others is all about how much better I am because I have an unconscious need, hating myself as I do, for external affirmation. All the success I have in life is because I am a fantastic person. I have what it takes and it has nothing or well very little to do with dumb luck. Where's the glory in luck? Remember, that for self haters, truth is a threat and all the theories about personal get up and go are pretty much rationalizations.

But since the purpose of life is to live, you can have all the success there is if you do that. To live, of course, is to be here now in the moment. To be all here is being everything you can be. But alas, self hate is the fear of being.
 
Did any of you guys take science classes in college? I remember starting physics and semester after semester people thinned out. They simply could not do it. They tried several times and still couldn't do it. It really sucked since by the time I got out of my prereqs none of my friends were in my classes. This is genes. None of those people failed out because of a lack of effort. They simply could not grasp the math, physics, chemistry, engineering, etc that it took to get a degree in science.

I have friends today who would love to get a better job but in order to do so they need to be able to do math. They can't do it. I have tutored multiple friends and they simply cannot grasp mathematics. In one case one of my friends ONLY needed to pass a math test to get his degree and he could not do it. He asked me to take the test for him but they would have recognized me so another friend did it. I don't care how long you try to explain something like scientific notation and cube roots to someone who isn't possessing the genes for it. It's not going to sink in.

Computer science? Anyone take discreet mathematics? That shit will make your brain explode if you're not wired for it. I'm not wired for it and took it for fun but that was a mistake. I imagine a large portion of the population simply cannot do it because they don't possess the mental ability to do so just like others can't grasp thermodynamics or organic chemistry. I call this a genetic difference since this is a nerd forum why not just bring up stuff that most of us can actually relate to.
 
Think of the possibilities. One can eliminate many diseases with the proper knowledge. That's good.

Then one could create better laborers, scientists, political leaders etc. The last would be, say, a Purple Caste. Then they could take charge and make a productive and peaceful society. Without resistance it seems a likely and efficient means of societal engineering. That's good? Depends on who you ask. Nirvana at the cost of one's soul, but when there's no such thing, there's no down side, eh?
 
Hayabusa Rider said:
Think of the possibilities. One can eliminate many diseases with the proper knowledge. That's good.

Then one could create better laborers, scientists, political leaders etc. The last would be, say, a Purple Caste. Then they could take charge and make a productive and peaceful society. Without resistance it seems a likely and efficient means of societal engineering. That's good? Depends on who you ask. Nirvana at the cost of one's soul, but when there's no such thing, there's no down side, eh?
Click to expand...

My dream is to be genetically engineered to physically attach to the genitalia of a gigantic swimming woman fish and constantly milked for sperm.
 
jaqie said:
I heartily disagree with this. This is a society created, not genetics created situation. Forrest Gump while being fiction does show how someone without good genetics can create their own success. Many people in Dirty Jobs episodes have done such themselves as well. History is full of examples of invention which was taken by someone with superior intellect and drive, and society rewarded them instead of the inventor of an idea, a technology, a concept, a product. A lot of them are either dumb luck (inventor of teflon, vulcanization, et cetra) or by simple exposure to a need (inventor of handheld drills, circular saws, et cetra). Heck even many things we use nowadays were invented by people with disabilities and problems in life that saw something was needed for themselves and those in similar situations.

Necessity is the mother of invention, not genetics. Invention doesn't mean just a new product.
Click to expand...

First you need to define "superior genetics".

I contend that there is no such thing.
 
Genetics tends to get overestimated in certain ways, particularly with IQ. A "smart" person can be just a greedy or heinous as a dumb person... even more so in some ways. And there are many factors that go into being smart than just IQ.
 
SMOGZINN said:
I would agree. Genetics are diverse, not inferior or superior.
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Strength, longevity, intelligence etc are genetic traits. Not everyone can be an Olympian. If one could isolate the biological basis for these and could engineer people who have these qualities they would be viewed as superior. It would be hard to imagine that this and more wouldn't be possible.
 
Hayabusa Rider said:
Strength, longevity, intelligence etc are genetic traits. Not everyone can be an Olympian. If one could isolate the biological basis for these and could engineer people who have these qualities they would be viewed as superior. It would be hard to imagine that this and more wouldn't be possible.
Click to expand...

I always wanted to be able to draw a cartoon of two Australopithecines arguing about the danger of eugenics.
 
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