Question From a Ryzen 5800X3D to Ryzen 7800X3D: Equivalent Pentium (P5/P5-MMX) Generation Upgrade?

[Dave3000]

When comparing going from a Ryzen 5800X3D to a Ryzen 7800X3D in terms of the Pentium (P5/P5-MMX) generation upgrade would it be like going from a Pentium 133 to a Pentium 166 MMX?

 

[Tech Junky]

Apples and oranges.

AMD doesn't do the hybrid CPU like Intel does for starters.

3XD is only AMD

IMO Intel 12th/ADL and beyond are just stepping stones until they revamp to chiplets in 2024. When they move to the ARL/15th gen layout and node shrink will there be anything worthwhile investing in again.

Each side has different niche options to decide between. Intel offers a lower price point for performance but AMD has some perks of you're doing certain things with the system.

 

[Dave3000]

I'm talking from a performance perspective, not an architecture prespective. In otherwords, is the performance difference between a 5800X3D compared to a 7800XD similar to a performance difference between a Pentium 133 compared to a Pentium 166 MMX?

 

[Tech Junky]

I'm talking from a performance perspective, not an architecture prespective. In otherwords, is the performance difference between a 5800X3D compared to a 7800XD similar to a performance difference between a Pentium 133 compared to a Pentium 166 MMX?

No.

Please click the green human to continue - UserBenchmark

cpu.userbenchmark.com

https://www.cpu-monkey.com/en/compare_cpu-amd_ryzen_7_7800x3d-vs-amd_ryzen_7_5800x3d

Two totally different architectures. Similar to moving from any Intel prior to ADL and moving to ADL or RPL adds big bandwidth changes to the system components. While moving from a 5800 to a 7800 isn't quite as dramatic it's still significant.

The 7800 will open doors to current and future options that can take advantage of the increased bandwidth that's unlocked by PCIE gen 5 / DDR5. While DDR6 cost vs performance has been at a premium it's coming to parity slowly with DDR4.

Ultimately it depends on what you're going to want to do and whether to wait out the price reductions or jump in feet first.

 

[Exist50]

No.

Please click the green human to continue - UserBenchmark

cpu.userbenchmark.com

https://www.cpu-monkey.com/en/compare_cpu-amd_ryzen_7_7800x3d-vs-amd_ryzen_7_5800x3d

Two totally different architectures. Similar to moving from any Intel prior to ADL and moving to ADL or RPL adds big bandwidth changes to the system components. While moving from a 5800 to a 7800 isn't quite as dramatic it's still significant.

The 7800 will open doors to current and future options that can take advantage of the increased bandwidth that's unlocked by PCIE gen 5 / DDR5. While DDR6 cost vs performance has been at a premium it's coming to parity slowly with DDR4.

Ultimately it depends on what you're going to want to do and whether to wait out the price reductions or jump in feet first.

None of that seems particularly applicable to what the OP is asking about.

 

[Tech Junky]

None of that seems particularly applicable to what the OP is asking about.

And how does this help?

 

[Exist50]

And how does this help?

Clarification if you want to answer the OP's question or just go off on a tangent.

 

[mikeymikec]

When comparing going from a Ryzen 5800X3D to a Ryzen 7800X3D in terms of the Pentium (P5/P5-MMX) generation upgrade would it be like going from a Pentium 133 to a Pentium 166 MMX?

I'm just going to say that this is a really odd question. I mean, I actually had a P133 and went on to a P166MMX and I haven't the foggiest memory of what the performance of either was like. It was over twenty years ago.

We have no idea from which performance perspective you're asking (e.g. gaming, particular apps, etc), so I'd suggest you read a review of the 7800X3D which includes the 5800X3D for reference. Here's one:

The AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D Review: A Simpler Slice of V-Cache For Gaming

www.anandtech.com

 

[DAPUNISHER]

While the comparison hurts my brain worse than usual. If I understand what Dave is getting at, my answer is there is no equivalence.

And since we don't have a PCMR style bot, I'll copy pasta it -

You seem to be linking to or recommending the use of UserBenchMark for benchmarking or comparing hardware. Please know that they have been at the center of drama due to accusations of being biased towards certain brands, using outdated or nonsensical means to score products, as well as several other things that you should know. You can learn more about this by seeing what other members of the PCMR have been discussing lately. Please strongly consider taking their information with a grain of salt and certainly do not use it as a say-all about component performance. If you're looking for benchmark results and software, we can recommend the use of tools such as Cinebench R20 for CPU performance and 3DMark's TimeSpy (a free demo is available on Steam, click "Download Demo" in the right bar), for easy system performance comparison.

 

[DrMrLordX]

When comparing going from a Ryzen 5800X3D to a Ryzen 7800X3D in terms of the Pentium (P5/P5-MMX) generation upgrade would it be like going from a Pentium 133 to a Pentium 166 MMX?

Not really. It's really hard to make that comparison.

In general, moving from a P5-133 to a P5MMX-166 you get: doubled L1 cache, +25% clockspeed, and access to MMX (which at launch, wasn't a huge deal)

Moving from a 5800X3D to a 7800X3D you get an IPC improvement and some extra clockspeed (varies, due to boost), along with AVX512 (which isn't a big deal for a lot of people outside of certain scientific applications and some benchmarks)

Taken out of context, it might be tempting to say that the 7800X3D is the bigger upgrade since the base clock increases by 23% and you get an IPC improvement on top of that. However the max boost clock only increased by 11%, and on top of that it's important not to discount the effect that increased L1 cache had on the Pentium uarch at the time it was relevant. Once MMX came into common use, if you had an Intel CPU, you didn't want to be on an older Pentium. There were some applications and games that flat-out wouldn't run without MMX.

Meanwhile, today, you can still run basically anything with a 5800X3D that can be run by a 7800X3D.

 

[Thunder 57]

Nobody should be referencing Userbenchmark. Also, original question is odd at best. I would say no. The 7800X3D is a bigger upgrade.

 

[Tech Junky]

Userbenchmark

Just one of the first results comparing the 2 CPU models. Hence the other link below it.

 

[igor_kavinski]

If the OP thinks that the 7800X3D may blow his mind, not really. It will give you like 30 to 40 fps extra in SOME games, but it's not gonna launch you into outer space with its speed. Well, maybe if you put it on a heavily CPU limited rocket engine that needs to complete some 3D operations during the countdown sequence and fails every time with a 13900KS coz the heat from that CPU causes a thermal runway condition leading to immediate explosion of the liquid rocket fuel mixture.

On average, it beats a 13900K at 1080p and it is almost as fast as a 13900K at 4K: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-7-7800x3d/27.html

Compared to a 5800X3D, about 20% faster at 1080p and 5% faster at 4K. But look at individual game results if you are interested in a particular game. I think you would be spending a lot more money for not that much performance improvement if you upgrade from a 5800X3D.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Pentium 133 to a Pentium 166 MMX?

Problem with that comparison is, MMX was the beginning of a new era of SIMD revolution that greatly sped up multimedia tasks. It gave way to AVX and AVX2 which are used heavily in a lot of 3D game engines. 7800X3D brings with it AVX-512 but it's not used in any game AFAIK. It is used in a PS3 emulator but even there, it's not as effective as Intel's AVX-512 because AMD chose the transistor efficient way of implementing it whereas Intel's implementation has always been power hungry and brute force, so much that the CPU heats up and it has to be downclocked to keep temps in check. Starting from Alder Lake, AVX-512 is gone on the Intel's side of the fence and may not return soon.

 

[Schmide]

Just one of the first results comparing the 2 CPU models. Hence the other link below it.

yeah and the post was tainted by it and all the credibility was lost.

 

[TheELF]

I'm talking from a performance perspective, not an architecture prespective. In otherwords, is the performance difference between a 5800X3D compared to a 7800XD similar to a performance difference between a Pentium 133 compared to a Pentium 166 MMX?

The difference would be more like the difference between hasswell and broadwell, not actually but just as an comparison.
The performance of the cores are mostly the same but they gained a large cache.

 

[Markfw]

The difference would be more like the difference between hasswell and broadwell, not actually but just as an comparison.
The performance of the cores are mostly the same but they gained a large cache.

Wrong. The internal design is quite different, including adding avx-512, and the clock speed is faster. They are really quite different, and the 7800x3d is much faster.

 

[aigomorla]

ACK EDIT..

Miss read.... (please ignore my initial comment. )
I think going from 133 to 166MMX was not even a debatable upgrade.
MMX bearly did anything the first gen, as no one knew how to use it properly.

MMX (instruction set) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It was a failed tech Intel had, which got removed with the introduction of Core.
Later Intel Introduced SSE, but, even then, unless your applications specifically called for the instruction set, it was sort of pointless.
Its like how many debate if AVX-512 is even worth it.

Id say going from 5000 to 7000 is probably simular to going sandy bridge to Ivy Bridge., i think it was said to be about a 13% improvement.

So it is pretty simular to Haswell going to Broadwell, well depending on how you looked at it, the low was around 5% but people reported as much as 18% in some cases, which is why the x99 and broadwell lasted so long.

 

[aigomorla]

Pentium (P5/P5-MMX) generation upgrade would it be like going from a Pentium 133 to a Pentium 166 MMX?

The Pentium 5 is core which is what got me confused.

Pentium 133 is an Original Pentium.
You didn't see OMG performance gain in those ages, until you ran into one of history's greatest cpu, the Celeron 300A. Which was a pentium 2, and become a absolute monster with a flip of a jumper on a Abit BH6 motherboard.

 

[Markfw]

ACK EDIT..

Miss read.... (please ignore my initial comment. )
I think going from 133 to 166MMX was not even a debatable upgrade.
MMX bearly did anything the first gen, as no one knew how to use it properly.

MMX (instruction set) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It was a failed tech Intel had, which got removed with the introduction of Core.
Later Intel Introduced SSE, but, even then, unless your applications specifically called for the instruction set, it was sort of pointless.
Its like how many debate if AVX-512 is even worth it.

Id say going from 5000 to 7000 is probably simular to going sandy bridge to Ivy Bridge., i think it was said to be about a 13% improvement.

So it is pretty simular to Haswell going to Broadwell, well depending on how you looked at it, the low was around 5% but people reported as much as 18% in some cases, which is why the x99 and broadwell lasted so long.

think thats a little low. My 5950x compared to 7950x or way more than 13%, more like 35-40%. Not to mention that in DC apps, avx-512 is used quite a bit, and the entire DC forum knows that.

 

[ondma]

If the OP thinks that the 7800X3D may blow his mind, not really. It will give you like 30 to 40 fps extra in SOME games, but it's not gonna launch you into outer space with its speed. Well, maybe if you put it on a heavily CPU limited rocket engine that needs to complete some 3D operations during the countdown sequence and fails every time with a 13900KS coz the heat from that CPU causes a thermal runway condition leading to immediate explosion of the liquid rocket fuel mixture.

On average, it beats a 13900K at 1080p and it is almost as fast as a 13900K at 4K: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-7-7800x3d/27.html

Compared to a 5800X3D, about 20% faster at 1080p and 5% faster at 4K. But look at individual game results if you are interested in a particular game. I think you would be spending a lot more money for not that much performance improvement if you upgrade from a 5800X3D.

Nice summary. We really need more information from the OP, such as the primary use case (assume gaming since he has the X3D). However, for gaming, there may be little difference at all unless he has a top of the line video card.

 

[igor_kavinski]

unless he has a top of the line video card.

Yeah, if he has a 4090, that card needs a CPU from the future. It's badly CPU limited even at higher resolutions, thanks in no small part to Nvidia's drivers.

 

[aigomorla]

think thats a little low. My 5950x compared to 7950x or way more than 13%, more like 35-40%. Not to mention that in DC apps, avx-512 is used quite a bit, and the entire DC forum knows that.

AMD Zen 4 Ryzen 7000 Specs, Release Date, Benchmarks, Price Listings

The five fives: DDR5, PCIe 5.0, 5nm, AM5, and 5.7 GHz

www.tomshardware.com

• Codename Raphael, first four models launched on September 27
• Up to 16 cores and 32 threads on TSMC 5nm process (N5 used for compute die)
• 5.7 GHz peak clock speed
• Ryzen 9 7950X, Ryzen 9 7900X, Ryzen 7 7700X, and Ryzen 5 7600X at launch
• 6nm I/O die, DDR5 memory controllers, PCIe 5.0 interface
• DDR5 only (no DDR4 support), up to 125% more memory bandwidth per core
• RDNA 2 integrated GPU (present on IOD, very basic and low power)
• Zen 4 architecture has a 13% IPC gain
• AM5 Socket LGA 1718, backward compatible with AM4 coolers
• 600-Series Chipset: X670E Extreme, X670, B650E Extreme, and B650 Motherboards
• up to 170W TDP, 230W peak power
• Support for AVX-512, VNNI
• At least one 3D V-Cache Zen 4 model will come to market this year

they say about 13% but again in certain situations i think that number can be as high as 18% which falls in line with broadwell and x99 in certain things.

Broadwell was the transition from ddr3 to ddr4.

Like how 7000 ryzen is a transition from ddr4 to ddr5.

 

[A///]

The difference would be more like the difference between hasswell and broadwell, not actually but just as an comparison.
The performance of the cores are mostly the same but they gained a large cache.

that's one way to describe haswell !

 

[CP5670]

I went from a 10700K to 7800X3D at 4K. It's faster, but not by a lot. The 7800X3D does keep up better in some specific areas in specific games with lots of NPCs, where the 10700K used to struggle. But in most situations there is no noticeable difference, and the 7800X3D still bogs down in some games that are bottlenecked by one thread (like Jedi Survivor).