Um... because that's what welfare exists for? To keep everybody at a bare minimum standard of living while trying to find a better option? If you're working and getting paid less than welfare, then what the hell are you waiting for? You should be reaping the benefits that our modern society has to offer. Or not, but then don't complain about everybody on welfare because you're too proud to take it. Keep that optional morality to yourself.
Um... because that's what welfare exists for? To keep everybody at a bare minimum standard of living while trying to find a better option? If you're working and getting paid less than welfare, then what the hell are you waiting for? You should be reaping the benefits that our modern society has to offer. Or not, but then don't complain about everybody on welfare because you're too proud to take it. Keep that optional morality to yourself.
Geekbabe
Moderator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
Need is probably the greastest motivator there is. When you're patying people more to do nothing than they could get working fulltime, you're not going to get anything back besides their contempt. Why do you think housing projects that are clean and nice when they're first built are such shitholes just a few short years later?
Because people value things in direct proprotion to what they pay for them.
Assistance is fine,programs like WIC, head start, food stamps.. but a system that gives people far in excess of what they'd earn if they went to work isn't helping anybody.
Geekbabe
Moderator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
I object to what essentially amounts to ruining people's lives via a helping hand that merely keeps them enslaved and basically hurts them.
PingSpike
Lifer
- Feb 25, 2004
- 21,756
- 600
- 126
How come every time I read one of these stories, expected the guy to at least be somewhat legitimately screwed, I end up thinking "Fuck that moron! Stupid asshole does everything backwards, lives like a king for 7 years and they whines when his house of cards collapses."
You'd think they could at least find a few genuine hard luck cases, it does happen. But its always "I had a credit score of 470 and my ARM that I didn't really the loan documents for reset and now I can't afford the payment on my escalade. Whaaa! Damn countrywide!"
Geekbabe
Moderator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
I reserve the right to discuss issues that in the end impact everyone, particularly since these programs are funded with my tax dollars.
A person who's got the stones to get up and apply themselves each day by going out to work should not have to stand there watching people who sit at home all day live better than they do. Btw,these discussions do not include people who are deemed fully disabled.
You want food stamps, medical coverage? some help with childcare, fuel assistance, tution
assistance ? that's totally understandable but you need to work at a job, any job, even one the state makes or finds for you in order to get those benefits.
Work is so important, getting people out there into situations where they will learn skills, where they will
network among other people, where they will be able to have PRIDE,it's essential to lifting people
from poverty.
I dunno what you're talking about. My dad is now not on welfare and makes a comfortable living. And many chronic welfare abusers like you're talking about were never going anywhere anyway. If you took them off of welfare they wouldn't suddenly get a job and get promoted to manager in 5 years. But I'm not going to advocate tearing the system down to nab the abusers when I know the system works for plenty of people. The answer isn't removal and/or boycott, the answer is adjustment.
UPDATE from housing bubble blog:
housing bubble blog
check the comment at 2008-03-27 15:42:40
-------------------------------------------------------
Here?s a little more information about Patricia Guerrero?s financial situation from public records (LA County Assessor and Recorder):
The 2,948 square foot house on a quarter acre lot was built in 1948.
She and her estranged husband Ray acquired the house, apparently from HIS PARENTS Israel and Esther Guerrero, in August 2002, at which time the debt load on the property was about $157,000.
Ray and Patricia took out a conventional fixed-rate first trust deed on the property on 8/14/2002 for $202,000.
I?ll spare you all the gory details of their various refinancings and equity loans, but the present note from 8/21/2006 is for $649,999.
So, it looks like they bought the place for a sweetheart deal and proceeded to jack themselves up to the tune of about $450,000 over a period of just 4 years.
housing bubble blog
check the comment at 2008-03-27 15:42:40
-------------------------------------------------------
Here?s a little more information about Patricia Guerrero?s financial situation from public records (LA County Assessor and Recorder):
The 2,948 square foot house on a quarter acre lot was built in 1948.
She and her estranged husband Ray acquired the house, apparently from HIS PARENTS Israel and Esther Guerrero, in August 2002, at which time the debt load on the property was about $157,000.
Ray and Patricia took out a conventional fixed-rate first trust deed on the property on 8/14/2002 for $202,000.
I?ll spare you all the gory details of their various refinancings and equity loans, but the present note from 8/21/2006 is for $649,999.
So, it looks like they bought the place for a sweetheart deal and proceeded to jack themselves up to the tune of about $450,000 over a period of just 4 years.
did you read the thread
She originally had 157K in debt
She easily could have afforded making payments on this on a 70K income without her husband
she INCREASED what she owed through REFI / 2ND Mortgages to the point that she owes 650+ on the house
now she can't afford to pay even the interest
basically she has spent 450K + 70K lets say that is 55K after taxes
so she has spent 168K per year and financed it by spending the equity of out of house that her husband's parents buit up.
If she did not refinance at all say she had a 30 year fixed at 6% which would have been high for 2002 she would be paying 941 a month which she could have easily afforded
even at 10 years she would be paying 1750 a month
not recommended on her income but certainly manageable
She essentially sold her house for 450K spent all the money and now has nowhere to live
Well, your tax dollars are getting sucked up one way or another, the question is where they are going to go. I'd rather help struggling single parents than inject another syringe of pork fat into our already bloated military.
Sounds good, you should lobby for welfare change that allows you to work a reasonable job without getting all welfare benefits taken away.
Geekbabe
Moderator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
No, my efforts are better spent staying alert, sharp witted, always with an eye out for chances to better my life and that of my family via work, saving and investing.
hanoverphist
Diamond Member
- Dec 7, 2006
- 9,867
- 23
- 76
waggy
No Lifer
- Dec 14, 2000
- 68,143
- 10
- 81
i have no sympathy for her.
i was lucky as a youth and inherited a good deal of money. Instead of blowing it on new cars, parties etc i invested it in family business and started one of my own.
I went to college full time, worked full time and in the summer had a part time job. In hindsight it having no sociel life was not a good idea though.
i purchased used cars, had roomates, did without cable TV (always had internet though), or nice stuff.
in the 90's i made a killing off computer idiots (thank you computer boom! and Y2K!). instead of blowing the money i had i again invested it and saved it.
why? i knew damn well my health was going bad and wouldnt be able to work as hard as i was.
no i have a modest house (2k sqft on 3acres wich cost $150k) used cars and do not buy ANYTHING (besides cars and house) on credit. i saved for years to buy a big screen TV. i t took me 3 years to get a new snow blower. we do not spend money UNLESS we have to.
though as a few know my daughter has siezures so we have spent a large amount of savings on that. we just had to adjust the lifestyle.
point is that you have to live within yoru budget. you do not need to keep up with anyone. enjoy what you have and keep the important things first (family, friends and God (no flaming heh))
i was lucky as a youth and inherited a good deal of money. Instead of blowing it on new cars, parties etc i invested it in family business and started one of my own.
I went to college full time, worked full time and in the summer had a part time job. In hindsight it having no sociel life was not a good idea though.
i purchased used cars, had roomates, did without cable TV (always had internet though), or nice stuff.
in the 90's i made a killing off computer idiots (thank you computer boom! and Y2K!). instead of blowing the money i had i again invested it and saved it.
why? i knew damn well my health was going bad and wouldnt be able to work as hard as i was.
no i have a modest house (2k sqft on 3acres wich cost $150k) used cars and do not buy ANYTHING (besides cars and house) on credit. i saved for years to buy a big screen TV. i t took me 3 years to get a new snow blower. we do not spend money UNLESS we have to.
though as a few know my daughter has siezures so we have spent a large amount of savings on that. we just had to adjust the lifestyle.
point is that you have to live within yoru budget. you do not need to keep up with anyone. enjoy what you have and keep the important things first (family, friends and God (no flaming heh))
Geekbabe
Moderator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
My family shared a large victorian era home with friends of mine for 4 yrs.
The deal was.. we had the top floor..2 bedrooms,living room,small bathroom, share the kitchen, laundrry.. we paid modest rent, our own electric, we also footed the bill for cable tv and internet for the entire house. In exchange for modest rent, I agreed to provide childcare for 2 kids for 24 hours per week.
At the beginning of this arrangement the house note was slightly under $1,200 per month
Flash forward 4 yrs... I'm babysitting 40 hours a week or more,paying more rent and freaking out worrying that we weren't going to have any water or gas because the bill didn't get paid I was going down to the cable and light company paying bills in cash because she'd been taking the payments,not putting them on the bills immediately.
Why? because our housemate and her husband had managed to take a $1,200 a month house note and turned it into a $2,700 per month house note.. this was at the point we baled, last time I spoke to her the house note was over $3,300 a month.
The mistakes?
On the first refi.. the couple was still together but having MAJOR marital issues.. the money from the refi went in part to paying off her CC debt which at one point was 17k.. she had spending issues.
He contracted to have the wiring and windows updated-both very needed,worthy things.. but instead of aggressively shopping around the most expensive companies got hired.. the windows worked great but they ran out of money before the 1st floor was was finished.
They divorced.. another refi.. he pulls out a ton of cash..she somehow manages to spend 20k
on down the road we go... she ended up doing another one or two refi's.. yet the toilets leaked, bathroom floors were in danger of collapsing, the kitchen was hopelessly outdated
the house needed insolation and new siding something fierce.Yet she's out bringing box after box of stuff home from yard sales, delivery trucks from the consignment store dropping off stuff all the time, out to eat almost every night. I figure she frittered away 30-40k her end and the house didn't get a dime's worth of work put into it.
She's getting ready to let the house go back to the bank.. she's way upside down now and her life has become a living hell.
The deal was.. we had the top floor..2 bedrooms,living room,small bathroom, share the kitchen, laundrry.. we paid modest rent, our own electric, we also footed the bill for cable tv and internet for the entire house. In exchange for modest rent, I agreed to provide childcare for 2 kids for 24 hours per week.
At the beginning of this arrangement the house note was slightly under $1,200 per month
Flash forward 4 yrs... I'm babysitting 40 hours a week or more,paying more rent and freaking out worrying that we weren't going to have any water or gas because the bill didn't get paid I was going down to the cable and light company paying bills in cash because she'd been taking the payments,not putting them on the bills immediately.
Why? because our housemate and her husband had managed to take a $1,200 a month house note and turned it into a $2,700 per month house note.. this was at the point we baled, last time I spoke to her the house note was over $3,300 a month.
The mistakes?
On the first refi.. the couple was still together but having MAJOR marital issues.. the money from the refi went in part to paying off her CC debt which at one point was 17k.. she had spending issues.
He contracted to have the wiring and windows updated-both very needed,worthy things.. but instead of aggressively shopping around the most expensive companies got hired.. the windows worked great but they ran out of money before the 1st floor was was finished.
They divorced.. another refi.. he pulls out a ton of cash..she somehow manages to spend 20k
on down the road we go... she ended up doing another one or two refi's.. yet the toilets leaked, bathroom floors were in danger of collapsing, the kitchen was hopelessly outdated
the house needed insolation and new siding something fierce.Yet she's out bringing box after box of stuff home from yard sales, delivery trucks from the consignment store dropping off stuff all the time, out to eat almost every night. I figure she frittered away 30-40k her end and the house didn't get a dime's worth of work put into it.
She's getting ready to let the house go back to the bank.. she's way upside down now and her life has become a living hell.
Geekbabe
Moderator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
The woman in question has a serious compulsive shopping/hoarding problem. Red's comment wasn't meant to be mean, just truthful.
Geekbabe
Moderator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
He lived thru it with me, his comments are valid.
At any rate, I think there's a mix of things causing the problems many of these families are having. In the case of our friend, the housing bubble breaking imho just hastened a situation that would have most likely happened anyway due to other issues.
Geekbabe
Moderator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
You really made a key point here.. that of gratitude. I believe that when we focus on the things we have and express gratitude for them our lives are so much better than when we fret over what we don't yet have. I firmly believe that the road to overwhelming debt for many people is paved with stones made of discontent, added to inability to defer gratification and entitlement.
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