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Friendly Fire: US Soldiers Mistakenly kill 12 Iraqi Police in Fallujah

T

tnitsuj

Diamond Member
From MSNBC.COM

Why did it have to be Fallujah? That town is already really hostile to the US, and is the same place that the police demonstrated for the US to leave the city proper as thier presense was endangering the police. US troops also killed 1 Iraqi policeman on Wednesday.

 
Another wounded policeman said the sudden appearance of one of the police vehicles, an unmarked pickup truck with a machine gun mounted on top, may have prompted the Americans to begin firing.
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Jee, ya think?
 
Is there any operational communication between US force and Iraqi police? I thought the US forces have control over Iraqi police. At least give them policeman uniform so everybody can recognize them!
 
You cannot kill the people and protect the people . . . Israel has spent decades demonstrating the futility of such activities. Calling this friendly fire is a stretch considering many of these civilian 'officers' probably do NOT approve of the US occupation . . . ala West Bank/Gaza. Regardless, US troops on a hair trigger (justifiable considering the threat level) are not appropriate for patroling city streets. The opposition forces in Iraq have been provided more ammunition for their propaganda war . . . which they were winning already.
 
Is there any operational communication between US force and Iraqi police? I thought the US forces have control over Iraqi police. At least give them policeman uniform so everybody can recognize them!
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Actually during the previous incident or the one before it . . . they were wearing their uniform (blue shirt and khakis?). The US probably wants to avoid providing a real uniform b/c opposition forces would use such uniforms for their own means.
 
Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
You cannot kill the people and protect the people . . . Israel has spent decades demonstrating the futility of such activities. Calling this friendly fire is a stretch considering many of these civilian 'officers' probably do NOT approve of the US occupation . . . ala West Bank/Gaza. Regardless, US troops on a hair trigger (justifiable considering the threat level) are not appropriate for patroling city streets. The opposition forces in Iraq have been provided more ammunition for their propaganda war . . . which they were winning already.
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What he said.
 
Yelling "we're the police, we're the police" didn't seem to help the Iraqi's.

100's of rounds for up to 45 minutes is what the BBC has just said.
 
US believes in the shoot first ask questions later
Iraqi police said that the shooting began when three gunmen in a BMW fired at their station in Fallujah, 43 miles (about 70 kilometers) west of Baghdad. The police said they pursued the men in unmarked vehicles and fired at them.

U.S. forces fired on both the police and suspects, witnesses said.

Yahoo version
In the Iraqi town of Falluja, police officer Assem Mohammed told Reuters a joint force of the local police and the U.S.- backed security force were chasing thieves in a car shortly after midnight when U.S. soldiers opened fire.

"They continued firing for about an hour despite our pleas for them to stop and to tell them we are police and security," Mohammed, who was wounded in the incident, said from his hospital bed in Falluja, about 30 miles west of Baghdad.

Nearly 24 hours later, U.S. military authorities still had no official comment on what had happened. They did say U.S. forces had come under a rocket-propelled grenade attack in the area and one American soldier was wounded.

 
What I find disturbing is that the US soldiers who are manning checkpoints and conducting raids are speaking English. Don't expect the Iraqi's to understand you. This is another aspect of poor planning. At least teach the troops to shout simple phases that Iraqis understand.
 
What I find disturbing is that the US soldiers who are manning checkpoints and conducting raids are speaking English. Don't expect the Iraqi's to understand you. This is another aspect of poor planning. At least teach the troops to shout simple phases that Iraqis understand.
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I guess you didn't get the memo . . . we are in the mopping up stage. Now that we've moved to 15th release of Operation Damn this Shyte is Mucked Up . . . our next operation is to pronounce English the official language of Iraq. That should fix these communication difficulties.
 
Well this is just great .

Let their deaths fuel the anger already growing in Iraq, and allow them to become stronger to kick Bush's Regime out of there pretty directly.
 
Originally posted by: phillyTIM
Well this is just great .

Let their deaths fuel the anger already growing in Iraq, and allow them to become stronger to kick Bush's Regime out of there pretty directly.
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So once again you post that you hope more of our soldiers die in Iraq just because you hate Bush. You truly are a disgusting little maggot.
 
I didn't say that at all, ONCE AGAIN you are putting so much sugar in your spin, I think you're on crystal meth, UQ. Fvck YOU
 
In Gulf-1, ALL of the Coalition Forces had distinct markings so as to minimize freindly fire.
Any district precincts should be co-ordinating with U.S. Military authorities to use some
distinct emblem or sign (Changable - as a code signal) to identify freindly operations.

Translators are despriately need to be with each group of troops concentrations - both sides.
We need people who speak both languages together with groupings to further minimize risks.
 
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
In Gulf-1, ALL of the Coalition Forces had distinct markings so as to minimize freindly fire.
Any district precincts should be co-ordinating with U.S. Military authorities to use some
distinct emblem or sign (Changable - as a code signal) to identify freindly operations.

Translators are despriately need to be with each group of troops concentrations - both sides.
We need people who speak both languages together with groupings to further minimize risks.
Click to expand...


This situation doesn't even remotely resemble GWI. Your emblem or sign idea is a good one, is used by our domestic law enforcement but may not be as easily implemented. There is still some question of who can be trusted, who cannot.

Mistakes are obviously being made but the soldier on the ground is only working within his skill set.
 
The Identification of friendly participants isn't as easy to accomplish as it was in G-1.
There the chevron that was used to identify friendlies was kept hidden and co-ordinated within
so as not to allow Iraq to affix markings simular that could be quickly copied to entrap us.

Crypto gear is keeping our side in communication and there is a reliable amount or security there.
I find it hard to believe that we couldn't use a 'Symbol' in 'Zone' method that could be changed on cue,
or revised as needed AND co-ordinated with friendlies on a rotational temporal basis.
Blue Triange on Monday in Baghdad for 'Domestics', Green Oval on Tuesday in Basara.
assign identifier for zone as first item of business at 0430 Hrs, pre-aranged realignment at 1300 Hrs.
Out of compliance with 'Flavor of the Day' brings you an armed challenge to verify intentions.

Local police or militia know their daily code and select few know what the change to is, and when.
Locals don't need to be outside of their core district unless under convoy or escort.

A milita moving from one area into another district knows what the IFF code is that they are entering.
I doubt that the Army would try to fake out the Marines of the Brittish by using the wrong Symbol,
but if they were to have a lapse of urgency and enter a zone with the WRONG IFF displayed,
it would be more of a corteous reminder than a Spectre Gunship and TOW attack.
 
Mistakes are obviously being made but the soldier on the ground is only working within his skill set.
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Without more evidence (which is unlikely due to the secretive nature of this administration) I would be quite wary of blaming US troops. I'm usre the vast majority are representing America well in a difficult situation. As for the civilian leadership . . . 'dem som a beotches all sux.
 
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
In Gulf-1, ALL of the Coalition Forces had distinct markings so as to minimize freindly fire.
Any district precincts should be co-ordinating with U.S. Military authorities to use some
distinct emblem or sign (Changable - as a code signal) to identify freindly operations.

Translators are despriately need to be with each group of troops concentrations - both sides.
We need people who speak both languages together with groupings to further minimize risks.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, even with combat markers, my company still had two BFVs destroyed by M1A1 fire from 1ID resulting in 1 KIA and 3 WIA during the first episode in the SW Asian Conference. In today's age of precision accuracy, fratricide and vehicular accidents remain two particularly frustrating problems for commanders in the field.

After GW 1, I worked on projects intended to minimize fratricide. However, even though the projects are now being employed under real-world conditions by my old unit over in Iraq, it is doubtful such measures would be shared with host-nation forces.

You are right about communication. Communication is key. Translators are needed. I'm thinking (read: hoping) they have enough down to at least company level. All soldiers should have ROE cards/booklets with basic arabic translation as well as a limited class. Nevertheless, this level of commo only goes so far, especially when lives are at risk. Coordination through liaison with friendlies must be flawless.

The CEOI style of combat markers you allude to would also be my field-expedient first choice in ID of friendly host-nation forces. I'm sure those West Point grads over there can come up with a solution as this incident is not only tragic, but unsettling in regards to host-nation relations. Once trust is lost, it is quite difficult to get back.
 
Originally posted by: tcsenter
Another wounded policeman said the sudden appearance of one of the police vehicles, an unmarked pickup truck with a machine gun mounted on top, may have prompted the Americans to begin firing.
Click to expand...
Jee, ya think?
Click to expand...

It would have been nice for the americans to get them some real police cars in addition to their obvious bright blue uniforms to avoid such incidents, but the US doesn't give a damn about Iraqis.
 
About 25 uniformed Iraqi policemen in two pickup trucks and a sedan were chasing a white BMW known to have been used by highway bandits near Fallujah, said Asem Mohammed, a police sergeant who was among the wounded. Two of the vehicles pursuing the bandits were painted in the blue and white colors of the Iraqi police, while the pickup truck with the gun mounted on it was white.
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sfgate
 
Even electronic IFF code generators have failed - BFV Vs. F-16's, F-16's Vs. Patriot Batteries, even Patriots vs, A-10's - it's not perfect.
Highest risk under cover of darkness. Sometimes the IFF code is entered wrong dooming the unknowing designated target,
but anything helps until passive auto response technology improves.

Easiest thing to do there is give local enities some badging now.

There are probably a higher number of Iraqis that have a semi-functonal English vocabulary,
than there are Americans that have any functional ability to speak an Arabian dialect.

We need more translators on our side than they do on theirs.
If you've been in an area, the phrases you learn are not likely to be what is used in an acceptable social conversation.
It might get you laid - or shot, depending on which accent you learned.
 
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